Student Refuses To Study Bible As Literature

in my opinion:


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Birol

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That's a good question right now.
A lot of the responses I'm seeing in this thread are making reference to the Bible as literature and comparative religious classes. From what I understand, they were not studying the Bible as literature, but were studying other works of literature which had biblical refererences. As such, whether you are a Christian or not, the Bible is a valid source material to use to gain better understanding of the layers contained with in the primary text (for example Dickens). Without it, there will be nuances that are not fully understood.

It does not matter what I believe. There are some texts and source materials which are so pervasive in our cultural that to shun them is to close off deeper understanding to our literature and other entertainment mediums. This class was teaching students to understand literature in such a way. It was not teaching the Bible as literature, trying to convert students, or offering a comparative religion study.
 

Lyv

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It would also help if we knew the specific biblical passages that were required reading. Were they of particular literary merit, or more evangelical in nature. That goes to motive (the teacher's) as well.
Good questions.

One of the articles mentions Genesis, but I believe that was mentioned as a requirement in a freshman English class, not the honors class in question.
 

Deleted member 42

You'll often see Judeo-Christian texts used in literature courses along with the exclusion of texts from other religions. To turn a blind eye to this practice is to perpetuate the ethnocentrism inherent in many Western academic curricula.

1. The texts were extracted because of very specific allusions to writers they are reading; they are not isolated for Evangelical purposes.

2. We don't know that "other religions" aren't also referred to in terms of being similar sources and analogs. I suspect Greek mythology makes an appearance as well.

3. I think the high school, as a public high school, did the logical thing; as I teacher, I would have wanted him to keep the failed grades he earned.

Literature has a context; much of it is a religious context, much of that context is unpleasant but historically accurate. When I have undergraduate college students objecting to reading a text--Jewish, Christian, Pagan, or Muslim--because it offends their delicate sensibilities, I tell them they have three choices:

1. They can suck it up and read the text.
2. They can take whatever grade they earn on papers, quizzes and exams, and not read the text in question.
3. They can drop my class.

There are numerous times in life when we simply just buckle down and do the unpleasant because it is required, and necessary.
 
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Cyia

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We had books of the Bible for assigned reading in AP English (Genesis one year and one of the Gospels another). The test we took was like any other.

"Name four people who figured prominently in the story"
"What is an ark (the boat or the box, whichever one you wanted to answer with)?"
Then there was the usual essay question about the tone of one or two events and how they were connected. (I'm thinking it was something about the sequence of events in Moses' life from being rescued through his days in Egypt.)


Things like that. It was done as a Lit. assignment, not religion, and almost identical to the ones we did on Scarlet Letter and Things Fall Apart.

(and for those who objected to any assignment, there was an alternative -- though I don't think the Jehovah's Witnesses who didn't want to read A Christmas Carol should have been given David Copperfield as an alternative, it's like 3 times as long)


ETA -- we also studied the life of The Buddha from princehood to enlightenment, that year. So it wasn't an exclusive lesson.
 

blacbird

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The kid is right, the Bible is not literature. It's a mythology. You know, a set of stories, traditions, or beliefs associated with a particular group.

Even if you believe in it, it's still a mythology. It's not literature.

So . . . you'd exclude also The Odyssey, The Iliad, The Mabinogion, The Kalevala, The Upanishads . . .

caw
 

dclary

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My attention was drawn to an article which appeared in the local newspaper recently; an article that I suspect was widely syndicated; perhaps you read it as well. With the article was a photograph of a young girl that appeared to be dancing atop the hood of an automobile. This young lady had attended that 'event,' one that had obviously been attended by a number of reporters as well, to celebrate the life of her younger cousin; that cousin had died with two others in an automobile 'accident' earlier that week in the same spot where now they gather bringing memorials. ~ The photo of the dancing girl was not what commanded my attention; it had been the glaring word 'sideshow' in a headline that hinted at the menace that came with such an event. It was the menace that had attended a previous, and unphotographed street gathering, and the three deaths that had resulted that night, that the reporter was detailing with facts and interviews with several that had shown up to memorialize the three dead youths. ~ Sideshows are impromptu events, usually held on a public street after most bars and clubs have closed down for the night. The 'kids' organize these gatherings using their ubiquitous cell phones, texting one another, in code(not sure if the writer meant 33lite or not), with a time and location. Oakland Police are hamstrung in their efforts to crack down on the participants in these potentially lethal social phenomena. ~ When the cars, the real focal point at these sideshows, start to arrive at the advertised location, all too frequently a good-sized crowd of 'pedestrian' on-lookers has already gathered; those cars come zig-zagging all over both sides of the roadway, with headlights blinking, horns and woofers blaring, in a sort of conga line for cars overstuffed with more kids, which they call a hyphy train. ~ Another stunt, one the kids call the ghost riding the whip, involves the driver jumping from his moving vehicle, dancing alongside it as he and the unattended vehicle continue along the boulevard, until he is forced to jump back into the car and regain control. Noticeable in the background of the photo that ran with the article, are a profusion of circular rubber tire-marks on the pavement which instantly put you in mind of the 'celebration' that ensues when the victor in a Nascar race smokes his tires before a packed grandstand, and then leaps from the racecar and climbs high on the safety fencing there, pumping a victory fist with one free arm. ~ Mortal danger is not just making the reckless drivers and their derring-do passengers its subjects. Nor is this 'reaper' content to stalk also those pedestrians who crowd into the dangerous thoroughfare to obtain an unobstructed view of the 'entertainment' on offer there. One girl, who was interviewed for this article, told the reporter she had been hospitalized when she had been seriously injured by one of these cars that came crashing right into her MacArthur Boulevard apartment. Her place must be really close to all this action, having been the 'fixed object' struck by a motor vehicle on no less than 3 separate occasions. ~ If you are from Atlanta(especially if you work in the downtown area), you cannot help but be reminded of the annual 'FREAKSHOW' that clogs the streets with cars full of university student revellers in a parade of sorts, marked by the perfume of smoking clutch plates and fuming hot radiators. The traffic snarling to the point of gridlock is not the only adverse affect, as the commerce of many small businesses along the affected routes grinds to a costly halt as well. The lack of restroom facilities causes another set of problems that characterize the complaints of those vocal business owners who hail mostly deaf ears. It is most probably a wise decision the authorities have made in 'permitting' the event, as I think, deep down, we all realize that they would be helpless to prevent it. ~ The 'empowered' youth of this nation will probably not flag in the creativity they bring to designing new and more exciting amusements for themselves, and I feel sure that it is the increasingly lawless nature of their creations, and not the lethal danger(mostly to themselves) that is worrying us most. If we fail to understand these disturbing phenomena; fail to correctly assess the motivations which drove us in our mostly forgotten youth; then we must submit to the fear these reports instill in us. Perhaps their pursuit of a more abundant life remains obscured because our(mostly irrational) fear has achieved an adulthood, with seasoned arms and legs, that in our youth remains a tentative force at best(not yet conditioned to outrun our intellect). Perhaps the real reason they are driven to ‘hook-up’ in places and situations where we have not yet successfully extended our laws; where-ever we have failed to subvert their exuberance with the authority of our fear-demons, is that if we succeed in quelling that fragile and precious spirit they keep alive at these illicit ceremonies, then we would have to face the next cataclysmic change to our circumstances(be it some pandemic of exotic disease, a massive volcanic ejection spurring instantaneous climate change, collision with any sufficiently large mass traversing our solar system or just a wobbling correction to that axis the planet currently spins about) without the divine gift that has, in the past(perhaps upward of 2 million years), guaranteed the survival of this oddly maladapted-looking species.


Paragraph breaks. They are your friends.
 

LaceWing

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shrimperdude at post #54: Needs paragraph breaks; otherwise, I enjoyed reading that.

However. It would be a really, really good idea to read the posts in the thread first to see if what you have to say is relevant to the conversation.

Be cool. Read along for a while, and you'll get the hang of it.
 

Cyia

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I have a feeling "shirmperdude" is a drive-by spammer. Both of his posts are identical. And neither put in a place remotely having to do with what he posted.
 

AryaT92

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What I'm seeing is a kid who didn't want to study, didn't want to do his homework and had a PC excuse that would make people run scared from challenging him on it.

As a high school student being preached to and taught everyday for hours on end, we love to argue with teachers and when we know we have a point we will go to extreme lengths to make it. If they are doing something that is wrong in our eyes, we will poke it until we win.. Mostly because it offers some excitement to an otherwise monotonous schedule.
 

Cyia

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I just don't see a real Athiest objecting to an assignment with the words "This is the Word of God". That's the part that stood out to me in the OP's quote. As did his assertion that "people take this literally".

A lot of things are taken literally by different people - that doesn't mean you don't have to study them just because you aren't one of those who does so.

It sounds like a kid who wanted out of an assignment and wanted some attention.
 

icerose

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Here's how I see it. If they weren't pushing across religion, the kid should have done the assignment or accepted the failing grade.

It reminds me of art class. We were learning about the greats, and there were nekid paintings. OMG! They were nekid. Some students decided they don't look at nekid pictures. That was fine, they didn't want to study art, they didn't have to, they failed that course. Now that's standing up for your beliefs. Standing up and taking the consequence for it.

It wasn't unfair that they failed that course and they weren't forced to do something they weren't comfortable with, but it did mean they were responsible for that choice and faced the consequences for it.

They also never took art again because the nekid form is part of learning how to draw.
 

William Haskins

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I just don't see a real Athiest objecting to an assignment with the words "This is the Word of God". That's the part that stood out to me in the OP's quote. As did his assertion that "people take this literally".

i always took great pleasure in meeting, or exceeding, the biblical knowledge of religious people i would debate.
 

Cyia

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Here's how I see it. If they weren't pushing across religion, the kid should have done the assignment or accepted the failing grade.

It reminds me of art class. We were learning about the greats, and there were nekid paintings. OMG! They were nekid. Some students decided they don't look at nekid pictures. That was fine, they didn't want to study art, they didn't have to, they failed that course. Now that's standing up for your beliefs. Standing up and taking the consequence for it.

It wasn't unfair that they failed that course and they weren't forced to do something they weren't comfortable with, but it did mean they were responsible for that choice and faced the consequences for it.

They also never took art again because the nekid form is part of learning how to draw.

Same thing with the kids that didn't want to dissect frogs in science class. They didn't think it was right so they took the lower grade (teacher offered a "C" instead of a zero).

Part of effective passive resistance is the willingness to accept consequences for the choice you make, not complaining that people are mean and making you do things you don't want to.
 

Celia Cyanide

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indeed.

so the question is what share of responsibility does little jack have in stating beforehand that he's afraid he might catch the jeebuses, vs. making a stink about it after he's failed the quizzes.

I think the question is, does little Jack care that he failed the quizzes? Or does his mommy?
 

robeiae

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The funny part is that if he were really an atheist, he'd know the bible isn't the word of god at all. It's fiction written by men. Stories. If that doesn't have a place in a literature course, I don't know what does.

My mom calls the Bible "the greatest novel ever written." And really--no matter what one's religion or lack there of--I'm hard-pressed to see any other books as important as the Bible, with regard to Western literature. And art, for that matter. And history.
i always took great pleasure in meeting, or exceeding, the biblical knowledge of religious people i would debate.
Stop flapping your gums and bring it.
 

Wayne K

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I hate coming into a debate after all the interesting things have been said.

I've read the bible and the koran cover to cover, so any opinions I have are at least educated ones. But I rarely see these threads go well.

I say if it's required reading, the student should read ii or fail. But that's all. There shouldn't be any special attention thrown at it because it's a religious book.
 

BenPanced

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I think the question is, does little Jack care that he failed the quizzes? Or does his mommy?
God forbid Heaven forfend Goodness, wouldn't want to wreck little Jack's self esteem, would we? What if he doesn't grow up believing he's a special little diamond?
 

Clair Dickson

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I'm going to be echoing (in part) some of the things earlier, but from a teacher's perspective:

It's impossible (if not negligent) to ignore the influence of religious belief and the Bible on a great deal of literature. I have actually included Biblical stories in my notes for the students becuase many of them don't know very many of the allusions-- just as I go over allusions to Greek or Roman mythology, other texts, etc.

I think the failing grades should stand. I'd bet money that the teacher informed the students at some point WELL before the quizzes that they would be reading Biblical passages. THIS was the time for the student to make his objections (such as they are) known, not afterward. The teacher, principal, student and mother should have sat down and discussed the curricular rationale for the reading materials and (hopefully, but not as often was would be nice) the principal would support the teacher's reasons.

I personally don't even like the alternative assignment because this kid does not need to be any more ignorant than he already is. He should learn about the influences of the literature he's reading, which does not in any way mean he supports it. That'd be like reading the things that Charles Manson read-- doesn't mean you believe in his theories about the world. *shakes head*

But, I would give a student an alternative assignment if necessary. I'm, sadly, used to kids defending their own ignorance with glee and pride. Sometimes it's a wonder that I don't drink and that high school teachers in general don't have a higher rate of alcoholism...
 

icerose

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I also figure if I had to read Mein Kompf (sp) for a junior high study program he should have to read his assignments.