Arrested for not paying a tip?

Silver King said:

That's where servers get shafted, I think. They get blamed by patrons for things that are beyond their control, such as how the food is cooked or tastes or when it's ready to be served and so on.

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maybe some people do this...but i don't. the waitress i spoke of up thread...i saw her standing in a corner chatting with another employee laughing and chatting...while I waited for my bill. I saw her leaning on a counter beside the bar while we waited to be served. I saw her walking around doing nothing. you can tell when the blame rests on the server. if the food isn't stunning, i don't blame the server. if the server is good, they get a good tip. i only shaft the fuckheads.

From 3rd Rock on the Sun :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

princessvessna said:

From 3rd Rock on the Sun :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1ZZWhSvOMI

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LOL. I actually had someone do this to me, at a cheap Mexican place - one of my first jobs ever. He put two stacks of quarters on the table and said that I'd get them all if I could please him enough. He was such an a$$.

I said, "Two dollars total. Good to know. You go on and keep them."

He was really pi$$ed at how his little trick worked out

Silver King said:

That's where servers get shafted, I think. They get blamed by patrons for things that are beyond their control, such as how the food is cooked or tastes or when it's ready to be served and so on.

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I could kiss you on the mouth for recognizing that fact. If the kitchen staff is a bunch of lazy bums, there's nothing a server can do to fix that. Well, I did, but I was cross-trained across the whole restaurant. Many a night I was waiting tables and helping in the kitchen when we were getting our asses handed to us.

backslashbaby said:

LOL. I actually had someone do this to me, at a cheap Mexican place - one of my first jobs ever. He put two stacks of quarters on the table and said that I'd get them all if I could please him enough. He was such an a$$.

I said, "Two dollars total. Good to know. You go on and keep them."

He was really pi$$ed at how his little trick worked out

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That's about like the ones that would threaten to not leave a tip if I didn't do exactly what they wanted (often against the rules). My response was that their tip wouldn't make or break my night. They didn't like that.

Most people tipped 10% anyway. And I found that 90% of the customers created the most work, making me run back and forth constantly, tipped the least, and left the biggest mess.

The other 10% are the reason I miss being a server sometimes.

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A 15% service charge is usually mandatory for groups of eight people or more in the restaurant business? Why? Because of groups like this.

When a service charge is added to a customer's bill in a restaurant, it's not added because of the server per se. It's added because of the trouble in serving a large group of people. Large groups generally turn over slower, which bites into the server and restaurant's cash flow. Large groups put the kitchen and/or barstaff in the weeds because of the number of orders flooding through at once. There is a lot of orchestration and timing involved in serving a large group--getting their drinks, salads, meals, desserts, refills and checks to them all at the same time, without confusion, is a pain in the ass. And on a night when the restaurant/bar is completely swamped, the last thing you want to see walk through the door is a party of eight or more people who are intent on being assholes.

Gratuities are a reward-based payscale for people in the industry. Since a substantial portion of the waitstaffs in any given restaurant are comprised of students, the low hourly wage allows them to work full time without getting taxed to death. Most restaurants have a computerized sales system that then removes the necessary tax owed the government, based on a percentage of sales.

A good server can make very good money in the service industry. I should know; I chucked teaching in favor of tending bar and waiting tables. Of course, there's a flip side to people who don't think they should have to tip because 'restaurants should pay minimum wage' or 'restaurants shouldn't shove their operating costs on the public.' Getting served in a restaurant or bar is not a right; it's a privilege and anyone, server or bartender, can refuse to serve anyone at any given time. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I remembered every single non-tipping butthead who ever crossed my path. If they crossed my path again, I refused to serve them. *shrug*

If the restaurant posted a mandatory service charge of 18% for parties of eight or more and these people didn't pay it, then they were right to be arrested. If you want to complain about the service, you don't go to a bartender--you go to a manager and you don't wait until you're paying the bill--you ask for a manager during the meal. The service charge was included on the bill; it's non-negotiable and perfectly reasonable. So this couple whining because they were arrested for theft? Let 'em whine. They tried to beat the system and lost.

What a freaking shame.

The pub was in the right.

I really don't think this party was "eight or more people who are intent on being assholes". Yes it can be busy. But it sounds like they weren't getting any service at all. Why should they pay for services they aren't getting?

And shopping anywhere is a privilege....but everywhere else pays their own employees instead of making the public directly. I will keep tipping until it changes, but I really hope it does. What is so different about food service that I have to pay the server's wages?

I worked retail, which I am pretty sure would be on par with food service in a lot of ways. Loads of grumpy demanding people. Busy beyond belief. Unreasonable expectations. Demanding work (being on your feet all day and more). And more. No tips there.

I ask sincerely....why should food service be on this whole expected tip basis, instead of at least minimum wage for all, and tips are for extra cool servers?

princessvessna said:

I really don't think this party was "eight or more people who are intent on being assholes". Yes it can be busy. But it sounds like they weren't getting any service at all. Why should they pay for services they aren't getting?

And shopping anywhere is a privilege....but everywhere else pays their own employees instead of making the public directly. I will keep tipping until it changes, but I really hope it does. What is so different about food service that I have to pay the server's wages?

I worked retail, which I am pretty sure would be on par with food service in a lot of ways. Loads of grumpy demanding people. Busy beyond belief. Unreasonable expectations. Demanding work (being on your feet all day and more). And more. No tips there.

I ask sincerely....why should food service be on this whole expected tip basis, instead of at least minimum wage for all, and tips are for extra cool servers?

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YES.

I would and have boycotted places that have mandatory tips. Maybe it is wrong to not pay them...(I'm not going to agree with that...but what the hell.)...but it's DOUBLY WRONG and asinine to have mandatory tip policies. It's insulting to consumers who are at the mercy of jackasses who know they have to do squat-shit to get a tip. No thank you. I will not go into a restaurant with this policy and if I do and see it on the menu or am told about it I will get up and walk out. Nobody TELLS KTC to tip. KTC decides if they deserve it.

*shrug*

If you don't want to pay a mandatory service charge for you and your party of eight, go somewhere else. It's not too much to ask to expect someone to pay for the service they receive. After reading the article, it sounds like the place was really busy and that the service charge was clearly posted--as it is in most places. In a busy restaurant, things take longer. If you sit down and order a meal, you are agreeing to the service charge. If you refuse to pay the clearly posted service charge, you get arrested--the same way you would if you got another service and refused to pay part or all of the bill.

Seems fairly simple to me. Don't want to pay the service charge? Take your cheap party of eight somewhere else that doesn't include the tip. I hear McDonald's can be nice.

That's what I said...I would go somewhere else. Mandatory tippage is bullshit. I almost always pay a tip...only a couple times in over 25 years of eating in restaurants where I haven't...I want that option to reward shit service with no tip. If they want to do something like this, they should just gauge the consumer more with higher prices and tell them no tip required. it's bullshit...any way you slice it.

If you don't like the service, complain to a manager. That's what they're there for. You can't just arbitrarily decide not to pay a portion of the bill, and if there is a mandatory service charge for parties of eight or more that is a portion of the bill. A good manager would remove the service charge and probably comp a portion or all of the meal. But without going through a manager, that won't fly.

I mean, you guys DO realize that not all the tip goes to the server? That the bartender, the busser, the food runner and the hosts usually get portions of that tip out? All I'm saying is this couple was in the wrong. They went about the whole situation incorrectly and now they're whining about it.

Shit service should be taken to management. And if you sit down at a table where the service charge for large parties is clearly stated, you are agreeing to be TOLD how much to tip. Trying to reneg on that after the meal is over is like getting a haircut and deciding arbitrarily that it's not worth twenty bucks, but only fifteen because you don't like the way the stylist talked. *shrug* It's part of the service--an extra fee for a large party.

I'm just having fun complaining about the whole system. It's dumb. And mandatory gratuity is a lovely oxymoron.
Maybe a manager wasn't available? I dunno. After all, if they were busy...

...if they were busy, a manager wouldn't be hard to find. The manager wouldn't be in the office smoking a cigar. The manager would be on the floor, trying to get the restaurant under control.

I tip (big or little) based on various factors. (whether or not the server smiles, how friendly they seem, etc.)

As an example, yesterday I took my son out for pizza. The waitress said something to me I found insulting. (Maybe others would not have found it so.)

So she did not get a very big tip.

*Shrug*. Ok, I just remember trying to fetch the manager at my store when it was busy, and it didn't always go fast or at all, and I had to figure things out. But you've worked in FS, so you would know better than me how it can happen in a restaurant. (Note : not sarcastic. Sincere.)

astonwest said:

I could be wrong, and this may be something local, but from what I've been told, if their tips come up to being an amount less than minimum wage (other than the fact maybe they shouldn't be waiting tables), the restaurant is obligated to make up the difference...so (at least here), they still make at least minimum wage for the hours worked.

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This is correct within the United States, by law the establishment must make up any lack in tips to equal minimum wage.

princessvessna said:

Oh I think in a lot of places that is supposed to happen...but I've also heard there are ways of getting around it....

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The only way they have of getting around it is if employees allow it.

There is such a thing as standing up for what's right.

If this had been my experience, upon having to retrieve my own silverware I would have sought out management and I would have negotiated for one of the following:

A new server
reduction in the cost of the gratuity
elimination of gratuity

Or I would have walked out before ordering a meal. Business transaction is a two sided contract. You pay for what you get. If you don't get what you paid for then they are in breach of that contract and you take it up with them, you do not just walk out and not pay the bill.

Yes, but when they sat in the pub with the mandatory service charge clearly indicated, they agreed to pay that gratuity. It's not optional; it's mandatory. And they went to a bartender--not the manager or the owner--and said, "we're not paying for this" after they consumed their meal. Unfortunately, that is on them. Period. I'm not debating whether or not the server was crappy (she probably was) or the length of time it took for service (again, the restaurant was busy and that goes with the territory) but the fact that they didn't go through proper channels and discuss the situation with management when their service was so poor. Hell, that's like trying to return clothes to the poor dude stocking athletes foot products in the phramacy aisle of Walmart.

What I think probably happened, and again--based on my years of experience all throughout food/bar service--is that these people determined on their own that they were going to cow some poor schmuck bartender into taking less for the bill than they were obligated to pay and got shellacked when the cops walked in the door. I've seen enough people complain about the service in bars and restaurants to have a modicum of faith that the majority of people know exactly what to do if their server sucked. I've had to placate customers for everything from the mandatory gratuity for large parties (that was festive. the table thought that because they were a church group, it couldn't possibly apply to THEIR party of 17 on Christmas Eve. They paid, btw.) to a fly baked into the cheese on an order of potato skins (yeah, that was festive too. That was a comped meal AND a gift certificate, which I had to explain to the district manager the next morning and ended up getting a cook, a server and an expediter fired) to someone refusing to pay because they didn't like the basketball game on television (they were asked to leave before they got their food).

You don't have to be a member of Mensa to figure out how to complain about bad service.

Why are the articles saying "The bartender in charge"? I'm just confused. Why doesn't it just say "The bartender"? (Just trying to see who they were talking to, since I don't know restaurant lingo.) Why is the bar saying they offered to comp the meal...wouldn't that imply some sort of manager was involved? And why wouldn't they take the comped meal, if really offered? I'm trying to find stories with more details.

I've never been to America. I've always thought if I ever went on hoilday there I would really hate having to give people tips. Its not my fault their boss can't pay them a decent wage so why should I give them extra money? I think people shouldn't be forced to do it. Or tips should just be built into the whole charge. I don't mind paying a service charge. I just don't like the idea of someone standing in front of me with their hand out or someone giving me a dirty look if I dash out out of a resturant without leaving a tip on the table.

icerose said:

From what I read there was no negotiating and they didn't walk out. They told the manager "We're not paying the tip because of X" "Well then I'm going to call the police and have you arrested for theft." Then he took the money called the police and wouldn't talk to them again. They hadn't gone anywhere.

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Since when do we have to pay for faulty products and service and not have the right to demand they make some sort of correction?

Of course, if they did absolutely no complaining during the meal it does make them look like they just wanted to get out of the gratuity.