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Carina Press

veinglory

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The question is whether Harlequin will be successful in this arena. How successful are their Harlequin-brand ebooks?
 

Nadia

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Angela James also said that she believed Carina Press pays twice a year.

That's a long time to wait for $. Most epubs pay monthly or quarterly.

ETA: I got the info from an RD thread.
 

para

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The question is whether Harlequin will be successful in this arena. How successful are their Harlequin-brand ebooks?

They must be making them a lot of money for Harlequin to have set up a ebook press. Harlequin is nothing if not about the bottom line. If the press is not successful I don't doubt it will be shut down in due course. The only benefit for author's (over any other start up press) would be that their work would have been published by HQN and they might get a foot in the door to transfer to the other side of the operation.

The no advance and potentially paying twice a year is troublesome.
 

Susan Gable

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There is however the Harelquin reader base already in place--and since Harlequin titles are also available in eformat this will help increase traffic/sales

The Harlequin "reader base" is NOT that ebook friendly. At this point, the established epubs have a way better "built in reader base."

I can tell you by looking at my royalty statements -- my ebook format is not selling that well.

You also have the backing of a large corporation behind it which means it's not going to be like the majority of small epublishers. So there are some major differences right out of the gate.

I'd be asking a lot more questions first. Like, what is this "higher royalty rate" and is it going to be on "cover price" or net?

And what will the cover prices be, anyway? Since the cover prices of the ebooks they sell now are still pretty close to the cover price for the "real" book.

What other rights will they take in these contracts? If they're only taking the digital rights, that would be a big plus. HQ's regular contracts grab up eveyr right under the sun, including those not yet invented. (That is NOT a sarcastic quip, that's reality.) The reason authors have traded away all these rights is because HQ has always had a MASSIVE distribution system/channels. (That's actually been sort of melting a bit.)

With a new epublishing house, they don't have ANY distribution channels that give them a leg up on the competition at the moment. You've actually got a better distribution system at the established epubs right now.

They're banking on the HQ name to be the draw for new authors.
They're banking on the HQ name to be the draw for readers. But the fact is they ARE already selling ebooks -- and not in any quantity for authors to get excited about. And these are ebooks that DO have something of a "built-in" readership, because they're books for existing lines with built-in readership.

Like ANY new venture, I'd advocate a huge dose of caution. (See Bombshell, Everlasting Love, Next, Red Dress Ink, Flipside, Precious Gems [not a Harlequin venture. That was Kensington.] etc. for more reasons to be cautious of new ventures.) HQ also has a tendency to pull the plugs on things before really giving them a chance to find their readerships. (Sort of like network TV. A new series doesn't get that long to prove itself.)

As with any foray into the publishing world, arm yourself with as much knowledge as you can first. :)

Susan G.
 

Susan Gable

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According to Angela James, 30%.
http://forums.romancedivas.com/index.php?showtopic=58706&view=findpost&p=866031

Higher than the digital royalty on Harlequin's print books (which, as far as I know is 8-10%).

Try 6% to start. Which is also what their print pub authors get for their ebooks right now. (Originally I think we got 30-50%, until it was realized that they were worthwhile rights. Then the contracts got changed. And many, MANY bigwig authors have tried to negotiate this ebook rate, and HQ won't budge. No matter who the author, or their agent.)

Susan G.
 

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I know it's still pre-opening, sort of, but it struck me that the website has one of the biggest red flags we're usually pointing out as a reason to be cautious in dealing with a new publisher: the website is directed to AUTHORS, not readers, and it's justifying its existence in terms of what AUTHORS want, rather than what readers will get from the publisher.

Also, is anyone else underwhelmed by the slogan -- where no great book is untold? Just like the rest of the focus of the site, it comes across as appealing to an insiders' (authors'/editors') view of the world, rather than a reader's view. I know what they mean, because I'm part of the industry (where the frequent complaint is that great stories can't find a home), but the slogan could be misinterpreted by someone less familiar with how publishing works, as if the publisher were saying about each offering: "well, it's no great book, but at least it's told."

Bottom line: what are they offering TO THE READER that existing publishers don't offer? If they're not offering something identifiably (by readers) different/better, then what's going to bring readers to the books?

JD
 

Richard White

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That's a good question, Jan.

It seems like they could have spoken to a few of their established authors to launch the line with some books right out of the gate to build momentum.

As it looks now, it's set up for authors that HQ wouldn't normally publish. What's in it for HQ to set this line up?
 

jennontheisland

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From the looks of this blog post Carina is being kept very separate from Harlequin.
http://carinapress.com/?p=127

A potential writer wanted to know if Carina Press eBooks will be sold on the eHarlequin.com website. No, we will be building a bookstore for Carina Press and selling through other eRetailers. Why? Because Harlequin offers a very specific promise to its readers and Carina Press is open to a much wider range of editorial.
...

I know people can be a little confused about Carina Press versus Harlequin but just think of it this way: what was Harlequin is still Harlequin.

I'm sure it's for good reason, but with Carina not listed as a line on the eHarlequin site, it may limit reader crossover.
 

IceCreamEmpress

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As it looks now, it's set up for authors that HQ wouldn't normally publish. What's in it for HQ to set this line up?

They want to cut in on the folks who are currently buying from Samhain, Ellora's Cave, Loose Id, and other e-publishers, not cut in on their own existing print market.

Presumably it leverages their existing facilities and staff in expanding to a new market.
 

Susan Gable

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They want to cut in on the folks who are currently buying from Samhain, Ellora's Cave, Loose Id, and other e-publishers, not cut in on their own existing print market.

Presumably it leverages their existing facilities and staff in expanding to a new market.

Oh, goodness, I hope they're not leveraging their existing staff! The staff is spread too thin already! Seriously, I don't know how the eds are keeping their heads above water now. Plus...if they use the same staff, it's going to "muddy" the waters of the "division" between the two. One reason that division is so important is that they will lose their RWA "Recognized Publisher" status if they can't show a clear seperation. There's a huge debate going on in RWA already.

Did anyone catch that what they sell is "editorial?" Is that what other publishers call it, or is it just HQ that calls books "editorial?"

Susan G.
 

Donna Pudick

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Two of our print books have gone to Kindle, one at the same time the print copies came out. A third print book is due to go to Kindle any day now. The royalties have been higher than the print copies, even though sales of those have been brisk.

I don't think the demise of print books is imminent. However, I do think the use of electronic books will escalate, especially with the price of readers going down. Once they get under $200, more folks will buy them. They make wonderful gifts, and the people I know who own them love them.

Some of the editors at the big houses are reading manuscript submissions on their Kindles. I'm not sure how they do that. Does anyone here know?
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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Isn't the market that Ellora's Cave, Loose Id and Samhain are in already glutted as it is?
 

jennontheisland

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Did anyone catch that what they sell is "editorial?" Is that what other publishers call it, or is it just HQ that calls books "editorial?"

Susan G.

I figured it was just a euphemistic way of saying "this line will have man-sex". ;)

I see their content as editorial. It's how traditional mid-western American family values are supposed to be. Harlequin sells an ideal. Harlequin decides what that ideal is.
 

michael_b

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Yes, the entire HQ outfit does use the word 'editorial' incorrectly. An 'editorial' is an opinion column written by an editor. This is something they do that I've never understood. What they mean, of course, is 'fiction' not opinion pieces which are typically written for a magazine or newspaper. It's on their main HQ website with the same odd language. I think some publishers try and reinvent the language just to be 'different'.
 

jennontheisland

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Seems reasonable to me.

Harlequin is a brand, much more than Kensington or Avon is. It's important to them to maintain that brand. And making all of the products they produce theirs rather than the author's seems a good way of maintaining the brand. Readers don't buy authors each month. They buy Harlequins.
 

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Seems reasonable to me.

Harlequin is a brand, much more than Kensington or Avon is. It's important to them to maintain that brand. And making all of the products they produce theirs rather than the author's seems a good way of maintaining the brand. Readers don't buy authors each month. They buy Harlequins.


Sometimes that's true. Sometimes not.

Mac's mom carries a list around with her of authors she likes. I know, cause I'm on that list. <G> (Which is WAY COOL, and something Mac didn't know, either. LOL.) So, again, even within Harlequin, it's sometimes about the author as well.

There are plenty of names that are well-recognized within Harlequin. Trust me, the readers begin to recognize certain names for giving them a certain experience even within the lines.

There are plenty more who've moved outside and become even more widely recognized. (Nora Roberts, Suzanne Brockman, Stephanie Bond, Jennifer Crusie, Debbie Macomber [Debbie still publishes with Mira, though]...)

Susan G.
 

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There are plenty of names that are well-recognized within Harlequin. Trust me, the readers begin to recognize certain names for giving them a certain experience even within the lines.

Sure, but Harlequin readers will give a new author a try knowing that they'll get a certain type of story or reading experience because that new author's book is a Harlequin book. It sounds like Carina is planning to publish stories that would not fit with the Harlequin reader's expectations (as Jenn said, man-sex, among other things) so Harlequin would be shooting itself in the foot if they put Carina books forward under the Harlequin name, because readers would be bound to try them and be disappointed. Harlequin would be nuts to take a chance on alienating some of its readers.

I agree that Carina is probably Harlequin's way of dipping into the Ellora's Cave audience without risking much money or name brand consciousness.
 

Haunted_October

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This was an answer on their blog today.

Question: I saw that the ‘higher royalty’ rate is 30%. How is that higher? Most e-publishers use a 30%-40% royalty rate right now. At least the ones I’ve seen. I’m a little concerned with that.

Answer: I also want to point out our royalty is based on the COVER PRICE and not NET. We believe the cover price is transparent to the author — there are no odd costs added to it (as can be done with net). So, if the book is priced at $5.99 the author receives her percentage of that.

Even if Carina Press bookstore discounts the price for a sale or on a regular basis, the author still receives her royalty percentage of the $5.99 cover price.

There was a comment before the answer, so that's why it starts with 'I also want..."
 

mlhernandez

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Question: I saw that the ‘higher royalty’ rate is 30%. How is that higher? Most e-publishers use a 30%-40% royalty rate right now. At least the ones I’ve seen. I’m a little concerned with that.

Answer: I also want to point out our royalty is based on the COVER PRICE and not NET. We believe the cover price is transparent to the author — there are no odd costs added to it (as can be done with net).

That's sort of a non-answer. All of the big e-pubs who pay 35% or more pay on cover price. Paying on net is NOT the the norm so to say that Carina is somehow different because they pay 30% on cover is misleading.
 

jennontheisland

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For some things they will likely be paying on "net". Third party distribution sites typically get their cut before the author's royalty is calculated.

This is industry standard as far as I know, and while their full rate on sale books may be a novel decision (but really, how often do ebooks go on sale?), I can't see them giving full rate to an author after they've already handed over 30% to the distribution system.
 

para

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Didn't something like this come up with the now defunct Quartet Press? When is gross net or something? Not to revisit the whole thing but were some authors quite insistent that they were paid gross but when you got down into it, they were paid gross minus certain fees (which sounds a lot like net but by another name)?
 

michael_b

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For some things they will likely be paying on "net". Third party distribution sites typically get their cut before the author's royalty is calculated. I can't see them giving full rate to an author after they've already handed over 30% to the distribution system.

I hate to tell you this, but MOST distributors take 60%, not 30%. (FYI Smashwords takes 15%, but they also deduct the processing fee.) This is one of the things that likely killed Quartet, I don't think they realized that distributors take the lion's share of the cover price just as they do in print. With Fictionwise that '60%' can often add up to more than 80% of the cover price when they've got one of their small press killing sales going on. I've actually gotten paid a whopping .10 cents per sale on a $1.99 book by the time Fictionwise has deducted the sale cost then taken their distribution cut and my publisher took their portion.
 

michael_b

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Didn't something like this come up with the now defunct Quartet Press? When is gross net or something? Not to revisit the whole thing but were some authors quite insistent that they were paid gross but when you got down into it, they were paid gross minus certain fees (which sounds a lot like net but by another name)?

Since Quartet never actually put out a book it would be hard to say what they paid on.