Weapons: Would it bug you if...

Lhun said:

Even if there are corporations, "arms manufacturers" will not be some monolithic bloc controlled by a single will.

Click to expand...

I never said anything of the sort.

Lhun said:

It's not believable that all arms manufacturers would restrict themselves this way for personal reasons, without exception.

Click to expand...

You continue to make unfounded assumptions based on incomplete information. Why?

Lhun said:

And that, even if they did at one time, no one would pick up on the obvious profit opportunity.

Click to expand...

Actually, a major subplot in my WIP involves the owner of one manufacturing company taking advantage of the market for unrestricted weapons.

MGraybosch said:

You continue to make unfounded assumptions based on incomplete information. Why?

Click to expand...

Because quite obviously, i can only make assumptions based on the information you provided, not on the information you didn't provide.

Actually, a major subplot in my WIP involves the owner of one manufacturing company taking advantage of the market for unrestricted weapons.

Click to expand...

A small universe i suppose.

Lhun said:

Because quite obviously, i can only make assumptions based on the information you provided, not on the information you didn't provide.

Click to expand...

So, this is how you go about asking questions?

Lhun said:

A small universe i suppose.

Click to expand...

Just a smaller world than you're used to. The antagonist suckered most of earth's population into killing themselves in the backstory. It was easy; people will do anything they're told as long as they think the order comes from a legitimate authority.

MGraybosch said:

So, this is how you go about asking questions?

Click to expand...

I didn't ask a question. I made a comment in line with the general theme of the thread, based on the available information.

Just a smaller world than you're used to.

Click to expand...

Not smaller than i'm used to, just smaller than i'm used to see for a universe that supports highly sophisticated technology.

Sarpedon said:

ok, I from the picture I see that while there are several chambers, there seems to be only one touch-hole. So I imagine you prime the chamber when you load it, and the chambers revolve inside the cylinder, and that keeps the primer from falling out? I guess?

Click to expand...

Your guess is as good as mine.
Although I suppose you could also restrain the priming powder under a wax cap...

Sarpedon said:

ok, I from the picture I see that while there are several chambers, there seems to be only one touch-hole. So I imagine you prime the chamber when you load it, and the chambers revolve inside the cylinder, and that keeps the primer from falling out? I guess?

Click to expand...

Apparantly, it was self-priming via a mechanism:

http://www.littlegun.be/arme britannique/artisan c/a collier gb.htm

To address the original point of the thread, I basically agree withthe general theme of the responses. The combination wouldn't bother me if there was a sensible explaination, but I would judge that explaination very harshly.

Of course, in Steampunk, you could have all kinds of things protecting people who prefer to mix it up with hand weapons from firearms. Anything from advanced alloy armor to a salve that makes your skin bullet proof ;-).

Also, as I think might have been mentioned or alluded too already, BP firearms are pretty low velocity and tended to use soft lead bullets/balls that would be easier to protect against than modern firearms.

Wow! sounds very complicated. I wonder what the rate of jamming, misfires, and misc cock ups were?

Sarpedon said:

ok, I from the picture I see that while there are several chambers, there seems to be only one touch-hole. So I imagine you prime the chamber when you load it, and the chambers revolve inside the cylinder, and that keeps the primer from falling out? I guess?

Click to expand...

I would think, you would load the powder and shot in each chamber. Before you fire each shot, you half cock it, prime the pan and close the frizzen.

The revolver action saves the user having to muzzle load the weapon after a shot. Would be very handy in the duel.

Just my guess.

quixote100104 said:

Apparantly, it was self-priming via a mechanism.

Click to expand...

Ah, cool.

Of course, in Steampunk, you could have all kinds of things protecting people who prefer to mix it up with hand weapons from firearms. Anything from advanced alloy armor to a salve that makes your skin bullet proof ;-).[/QUOTE]

I've done something similar, a device that can project a field designed to counteract or deflect incoming projectiles. I've made it so that it works well against high kinetic energy, but not high momentum. In other words, a slow but heavy object (like a melee weapon) would go right through but a bullet would probably be stopped. An artillery round, however, with both high KE and high momentum, would be ample reason to bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.

I've done something similar, a device that can project a field designed to counteract or deflect incoming projectiles. I've made it so that it works well against high kinetic energy, but not high momentum. In other words, a slow but heavy object (like a melee weapon) would go right through but a bullet would probably be stopped. An artillery round, however, with both high KE and high momentum, would be ample reason to bend over and kiss your butt goodbye.

Click to expand...

More info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holtzman_effect

Heh. A little different from Herbert's devices, but I've had the similarities pointed out before.

You're right, of course, it's definitly been done before. No such thing as an original idea and all. I might have changed some of the mechanics around to fit my setting, but it's still basically the fantasy equivalent of the Dune Holtzman shield.

Armour to make bullets less effective is a pretty good idea, though personally, i'd not go with a forcefield of some kind but physical armour in a steampunkish. Forcefields are a usual staple of SF, while big plates of metal are pure punk.

Wavy_Blue said:

The thing is, I will have characters using a medieval-type weapon such as a bardiche next to a character using a revolver. The question is, then, would you find irritating that weapons from such different time periods were being used at the same time?

Click to expand...

Yes, it would bother me, but I believe there are some ways of -- getting around that. You can update old weapons, to make them new, or you can have old weapons counter the newer ones.

For example, a sword and a gun. If you take your best swordsman and your best gunman, it's obvious who would win. But if you made the sword slow bullets some how (or just anything to counter a gun), then I would be much more interested.

Or you could have the story's setting effect the kinds of weapons used. For example, the effectiveness of a gun is reduced in tight quarters. Or maybe there's all kinds of dangerous stuff around, like, I don't know, big glass pots of acid or gasoline, so fire arms are banned. Or maybe there's a critical lead shortage...everyone would have to use swords, and crayons!

Sarpedon said:

everyone would have to use swords, and crayons!

Click to expand...

Ouch. Death by Burnt Sienna.

"Why?!?"

"He went outside the lines."

"GASP!"

Sarpedon said:

Well a revolver is not exactly a black-powder type weapon. It requires the invention of percussion caps, which are a fairly modern thing.

I guess if your steampunk character actually made a black-powder revolver, and somehow made it work with a matchlock or flintlock mechanism, (or other) that would be interesting and exotic enough. I don't think you could get away with just saying "oh, these things just exist."

Click to expand...

Percussion caps are not all that modern. They were first invented in 1805-07 They were used almost exclusively during the civil war for black powder weapons, including a wide range of revolvers. The colt walker, the navy colt, remington rider etc.

Granted, loading a black powder percussion cap revolver is a pain in the rear. You have to cram the powder down into the chamber with the ball/bullet on top using a lever thingy (this is my awesome girl terminology kicking in). I'm pretty wussy and can't get it to pack down. Heck, I can't even open a pickle jar. Not something you'd do in the middle of a fight. Most cavalry men kept spare loaded cylinders on themselves so they could switch them out during a battle.

I guess that could be a limitation as well. A gun like a derringer only has one shot and then has a lengthy reload time before it can be used again, which would make a backup melee weapon handy in close quarters.

ETA: Just a note, if you use percussion caps as primers, crimping them with your fingers before putting them on the nipple will prevent them from falling off while being wildly waved around. Otherwise you're kind of screwed.

In one of my WIPs I have archers and swordsmen battling against gunpowder. Why don't they have gunpowder? Because gunpowder had been banned from use because of its destructive capabilities years and years before ... but the evil guy has gotten hold of it to their surprise and is using it. It is, however, not our modern use of gunpowder. You have to think of how gunpowder may have been used in the 15th, 16th centuries.

Mela said:

In one of my WIPs I have archers and swordsmen battling against gunpowder. Why don't they have gunpowder? Because gunpowder had been banned from use because of its destructive capabilities years and years before ... but the evil guy has gotten hold of it to their surprise and is using it. It is, however, not our modern use of gunpowder. You have to think of how gunpowder may have been used in the 15th, 16th centuries.

Click to expand...

For those of you who are fascinated by the potentials of limiting gunpowder, the best example around (still) is H. Beam Piper's Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen, aka "Gunpowder God," about an alternate history in which gunpowder was discovered by a group of priests who promptly made it a religious monopoly.

A real-world example of cutting off gunpowder was Japan. So maybe look into that.

Personally I think any weapon is good if a) u can use it in some manner to compete with weapons potentially further advanced then itself and b) ur character isnt consistently getting beat by using such an old weapon. although I guess another reason could be c) Ur character uses old weapons because he is comic relief and is meant to always get beat.

Firearms, armour, swords and spears existed side by side for centuries in our own world.

beezle said:

Firearms, armour, swords and spears existed side by side for centuries in our own world.

Click to expand...

"Firearms" is a very vague word. Innaccurate, expensive, hard to load, low power fiearms competed with other weapons, including melee, bow, crossbow, and even air rifles. There is a differene between those and the low maintanence, inexpensve, accurate, powerful firearms we use now. Of course, the op mentions a revolver, which is far from my area of expertise.

Alternately, I could see melee weapons still being useful alongside firearms if the characters commonly face opposition that can dodge/tank enough of the bullets. I.e. if they can last to the point the revolver's chambers are empty and there might not always be time to practically reload them...

Or, what if the swords(or bardiches)man is just good enough to deflect the bullets? With regard to polearms being hard to buy outside of anime, hey, some of us can appreciate anime-level over-the-top-ness in our written fiction...