Anti-social...or just choosy about one's companions?

Namatu said:

Or fear. The same person who expressed horror at my going shopping or to the movies alone and read lonely into my small dining room table has always kept herself so busy that she rarely has a moment to herself. Maybe she's totally fine with that, but I'd go crazy. Alone does not equal lonely, but some people think that it does.

Click to expand...

Your friend would probably have a heart attack to hear that I travel alone. Travel! Like, in a new city, for days! By myself! [/sarcasm]

I'm glad that I don't have "friends" who judge how I live my life. I'd like to think I chose well.

I agree that alone does not equal lonely. There's a big difference between loneliness and solitude. I adore solitude.

scarletpeaches said:

I'd like to meet folks too - but only if they're on my level.

Click to expand...

... take some night courses at a college by you. I'd bet you'd really like that. Doesn't have to be a writing course. Could be anything. And if you're ever in the States drop me a line. I'll be doing lots of book learning between now and then so I'll be at a pretty good level, intelligence-wise.

Bubastes said:

Your friend would probably have a heart attack to hear that I travel alone. Travel! Like, in a new city, for days! By myself! [/sarcasm]

Click to expand...

OMG! Heh.

... sounds great

Your friend would probably have a heart attack to hear that I travel alone. Travel! Like, in a new city, for days! By myself!

Click to expand...

Me too! Well, usually I have my little kids w/ me. My husband works a lot and I can't stand to be in one place for very long, so I hop on planes often. A lot of our friends like to travel in groups. Sounds awful to me.

I'm a very strange sort of hermit. When I'm at home, I never want to leave the house. Like Lori, I'm an expat. I don't know how she feels about Japan, but I can't stand the city I live in. I've been living here for 10 years, my entire adult life. I will do just about anything to avoid leaving the house. But then I get sick of the housekeeper, so I invent reasons for her to leave the house so I can be alone. Oddly when I'm on vacation I'm a totally different person, always on the move and out and about.

fringle said:

I'm a very strange sort of hermit. When I'm at home, I never want to leave the house. Like Lori, I'm an expat. I don't know how she feels about Japan, but I can't stand the city I live in. I've been living here for 10 years, my entire adult life. I will do just about anything to avoid leaving the house. But then I get sick of the housekeeper, so I invent reasons for her to leave the house so I can be alone. Oddly when I'm on vacation I'm a totally different person, always on the move and out and about.

Click to expand...

I love where I live, I just don't like people (particularly the ones on base...). I do like to get out and explore, take pictures, etc...but my preference, my default setting if you will, is home.

scarletpeaches said:

Ah, but that's the thing. The assumption that people on their own need help.

The woman I referred to who offered up her daughter to go to the cinema with me? She never does anything alone and actually called me brave - yes, brave - for seeing a movie by myself.

Click to expand...

Maybe she was just concerned about the likes of you going out in public without adult supervision.

Well I am the opposite. I am the person who goes out a lot, who loves to spend time with people. But I think it's fine when others do not. In reading this thread I just wanted to point out the other side, that just as not every person who likes to be alone is a loner, not every person who enjoys going out and spending time with friends, is insecure and incapable of spending time by one's self.

I go to movies by myself, out for coffee by myself, but I happen to adore the company of my friends. And I have a lot of friends. Again, just because I have a lot of friends doesn't mean that those relationships are superficial. I've never had a frenemy in my life (don't even understand the concept), and while I will always work at relationships I never have to work too hard because the people I have around me are always awesome. I hate drama, I need rational friends, and I am very choosy myself, I just happen to meet a lot of people who fit what I'm looking for.

Not all writers are that stereotype of the anti-social nose in book thing, and it kind of makes you feel a bit of an outcast within your writing community when you are not. So strange really, that people who are frustrated about being misunderstood and feeling like outcasts because of their love of being alone, turn around and can be just as judgmental about those of us who are the opposite.

I think it is important to treat everyone as individuals and not generalise. If people are happy in their life, what else matters?

Also, and this isn't quite the same as what happened in your situation SP, but I was once on the recieving end of the later apology and it is a bit frustrating. You see I had gone out with my girl friend and two boys. They were both obviously hitting on her, and it was pretty funny. I wasn't interested in either of them at all (and I mean that, if you knew these guys you'd understand completely). A couple months later all four of us were remembering the outing, and one of the guys said, "I felt so bad for you that night. I mean we were both hitting on her and not paying any attention to you." And that made me a little angry. He was feeling bad for me for not having been hit on, and was giving me his pity? When I didn't care in the first place? Also they hadn't been paying attention to me? I had thought we were all getting along fine, just that my girl friend was getting more attention from them. It was just . . . well was a pretty mean thing to say and point out. Why was it necessary? It felt like a fake apology: "So sorry for leaving you out because we liked her more." Ick.

Now in your situation SP, it sounds as if the girl actually did care about the initial time you hanged out and talked books, considering her response. But there are times when one brings up an incident, and points out how worried one was that someone else was left out, when they didn't feel that way, and then they feel like, "Oh all this time they were feeling sorry for me, nice."

Anyway, might explain a bit about her defensiveness. Not that you did anything inherently wrong, but I kind of get it from the other POV.


ETA: Also don't forget, her pointing out that you like to read and she likes to go out is her trying to make herself feel better. She felt left out of a conversation because she didn't know what you were talking about, so she wanted to point out something to you that she thought you had no knowledge about. It was petty and silly, but that's probably why she did it. It had less to do with you, and more to do with her. I wouldn't let it get to you that much.

If writers weren't comfortable spending a lot of time alone, no writing would ever get done.

Relationships are contracts in which one of the principal clauses is mutual respect. If either party violates the mutual respect clause, the relationship is null. The parties might drag on, spending time together, but their bond is a facade or even, sadly, a galling set of shackles.

Except I get tons of writing done, and am very social. It just depends on the individual.

I used to go to the movies alone all the time, if no one else wanted to see the particular movie. No big deal. Nowadays, I have Netflix, so I can watch all those movies at home and save some money.

Interesting, but I never go to the theatre alone. I feel live action drama is a more social event, somehow, so I want people along. But if I couldn't get anyone to go see a play I really really wanted to see, I'd go alone.

I'm married to an extrovert and am an extreme introvert. He loves to go out at night. I'm content to stay home with the kids. It works for us. Now and then I like to get out with select small groups of friends and be with adults but otherwise I never seek out social activity for its own sake. We have friends who keep trying to set up social occasions for me to "balance things out" as if I am being cheated out of something. Now if they'd take the girls and let me spend a night with my husband that would be grand. But until I realized what they were doing I used to drag myself out to occasions which were OK but I didn't really enjoy -- because they were my friends and I didn't want to disappoint them.

Its really not that I don't like people -- I prefer them in small doses that's all.

Toothpaste said:

Except I get tons of writing done, and am very social. It just depends on the individual.

Click to expand...

But do you spend a lot of time writing? And when you're writing, are you alone?

Doesn't matter if you spend a lot of other time being social, or planting daisies, or flying jet fighters, or defending your clients in court. That's irrelevant to my statement.

Could be you write while socializing, and/or get tons done in a very short time. Okay, then you'd be an exception to the rule. So what? I always leave plenty of room for exceptions, because, Tigger-like, they tend to bounce around a lot.

I love Tiggers.

Yes but there are many jobs which must be done alone. Being a lawyer requires a lot of research. Being a doctor requires tons of paperwork. Doing data entry, well that I can tell you from personal experience can be terribly isolating. And you can't do these tasks while hanging out with buddies. Aside from the service industry, most jobs require such focus. I just don't think writers HAVE to be lonely creatures. But I don't think there is anything wrong with them when they are.

I dunno, I just see writers bonding so much over being alone, and at times inadvertently dissing people who are more social (like asking if we are jealous that you can spend time by yourself - implying that a) our responses are just jealousy and b) we can't be by ourselves at all) and wanted to point out that that is equally as judgmental as those people who think people who like to be alone are pathetic. It's about choice. And not being judged on the choice you have made.

And no I am no Tigger. Though I love him too.

scarletpeaches said:

I'd like to meet folks too - but only if they're on my level.

Click to expand...

(Arches one eyebrow. Smirks slightly, but oddly charmingly.)

Hey. Come here often?

scarletpeaches said:

I have a Tigger lunch bag.

Click to expand...

Well, it's proven, then. You rock.

Toothpaste said:

And no I am no Tigger. Though I love him too.

Click to expand...

Hmm. If you're not Tigger, who are you?

Me, I'm the offspring of an unholy marriage of Tigger and Eeyore. So when I bounce, my tail falls off, and then I sulk about it.

To answer your question on Page 1, with girls there is ALWAYS a level of jealousy or cattiness or what-have-you. Women are evil, conniving creatures as a stereotype. That's of course not to say this applies to everyone. It's a label, just as "bookworm=antisocial" is a label she's given you.

I don't care if it sounds rude or not, but I've come to realize that the majority of people in my life are not true friends, they are acquaintances. When my life lines up with their life, we are best buds. When our lives do not line up, we are strangers. Of course I still consider many of them friends and hang out on occasion, but the truth of the matter is, people get wrapped up in their own little worlds and tend to put themselves and their direct loved ones first.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

My best friend is my husband, and the few friends I have who would die for me, I consider family.

This doesn't make me antisocial, it just means I don't have enough time to spend with people who really DO matter to me - so I don't stress myself out on wasting time with everyone else. The occasional get together with them is fine to fit apparently both my and their lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with that. And I love meeting new people. We have huge get togethers and we invite new people over all the time to expand the friend group. But they're still not close friends, no matter how you slice it (of course some of them may BECOME close friends, but that's another story).

And also, I think it's stupid that someone would think that connecting over books is not an adequate way of meeting people. EVERYONE clicks because of some kind of connection. Books may be yours, drinking coffee or liquor may be hers. She's still connecting over common ground. If you connect with people through books, then you have a social group with those peers.

I dunno... I'm babbling. I guess my point is: In the real world (outside of college) I think the expectation of maintaining a huge circle of friends is not only unrealistic, but completely unnecessary to live a fulfilled, happy life.

Just to iterate: antisocial != introvert. They're not the same. We're writers so let's use our words correctly

And being an introvert does not mean you're shy. It means you just get tired from being around people too much.

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life". ... They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, drawing, playing musical instruments or using computers. ... An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though they tend to enjoy interactions with close friends. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate. Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement. The introvert tends to think thoroughly before verbalising their thoughts.

Introversion is generally not the same as shyness. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people avoid social encounters out of fear.

Click to expand...

Also, I have the same issue.

People? They are draining. But when I find someone I can exchange ideas or share interest with, I'm energized.

It's a matter of energy and priorities. I work full-time, I'm a master's student, working on being a writer, and I have far too many hobbies (reading, kendo, fire eating/breathing/staff, singing, gaming, etc). My time is precious, and I don't let people waste it If people call me names, I don't care. I've got bigger shit to worry about.

I think dempsey's got the right of it. It's introverts vs. extroverts. Being around groups of people is really draining for me, but when I meet the right person, it's great! I guess I think of myself as shy because social situations overwhelm me, but really I am perfectly happy to discuss my life with anyone who is interested.

I think this thread is making me realize I need to relax and not be so hard on myself in the "friend" arena. I'm quite comfortable going out to eat alone, shopping alone, traveling alone, going to the movies alone, etc. But I've been really really REALLY trying to make friends here. It was so easy in college because there are so many ways to meet people, but out here in the real world - and particularly where I live - it's difficult to find other women with common interests and philosophies. In the past the right people have just sort of appeared, one at a time, when I needed them. But with the baby on the way I've been thinking "OH NO, what am I going to do when I'm a mom and I have no female support?" But maybe I just need to relax and trust that it will happen. I really don't want to end up with a bunch of "acquaintances," because it really is just exhausting. Maybe it's okay just to have me and my husband.