Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 2

sneaky_squirrel

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I am fairly young (Around 8 years old when LoTR movies started) so I had no idea LoTR had already been made years ago, I am guessing the books were sold in a new cover along with the films to make more money.

I guess I just strive to be original (A fatal flaw in my personality), I just despise clichés, yet some are inevitable in successful writing.
 

eqb

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LotR was published in the 1950s in Britain. The US version was published in the 1960s.

And remember, there's a difference between tropes, archetypes, and cliches. Tolkien wrote in tropes and archetypes, imo. The authors who copied him without considering the roots of his work created cliches.
 

jinkang

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And remember, there's a difference between tropes, archetypes, and cliches. Tolkien wrote in tropes and archetypes, imo. The authors who copied him without considering the roots of his work created cliches.

I think it's difficult to avoid writing tropes and archetypes all the time.

Human beings have been telling stories for millenniums, in whatever format the age dictates, and there is a reason why we keep telling certain types of stories: the tropes and archetypes ring closer to our hearts.

It's 'telling' the story in a unique voice that is your own, and well, that I find near impossible at the moment.
 

sneaky_squirrel

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A question for the masters ;p.

Is it ok to briefly describe characters in passive if it feels better than just showing it in shallow chit chat type dialogue?

I feel a strong attraction to the first, but I remember reading that telling is very bad in most situations.

Beginning to write is hard (I get nervous about being corrected so I tend to ask or wonder about these minor details).
 

batgirl

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How do you describe someone in the passive voice?

"His chestnut-brown hair was slicked back by an expert hand. His acquiline nose might have been shaped by the finest of sculptors. The sparkle of sun-kissed azure waves was evoked by his twinkling eyes."

Like that? It would make kind of a fun writing exercise.

-Barbara (not a master or even a mistress)
 

James D. Macdonald

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http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=59268
Tor.com welcomes original short SF and fantasy, broadly defined. We’re particularly interested in stories under 12,000 words, although we’ve made exceptions in the past and will do so again. We pay 25 cents a word for the first 5,000 words, 15 cents a word for the next 5,000, and 10 cents a word after that. Although we try to employ common sense in dealing with edge cases, “original” means original—not previously published. Contrary to some previous reports, we do not want you to query first; to submit to Tor.com, just send us your story. Stories should use standard manuscript format and be emailed as Word, RTF, or plain-text attachments. Stories sent inline in the body of an email will be ignored. Questions? Send them to [email protected]
 

Neversage

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http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=59268
Tor.com welcomes original short SF and fantasy, broadly defined. We’re particularly interested in stories under 12,000 words... [email protected]

Oh my goodness this is going to kill me inside. So here I sit thinking to myself how great it would be to try to get something in for this. As I'm scheming away with plot ideas and such, some of my characters from the novel I am nearer to completing than ever (see what I did there?) rise up against me and complain.
"How can you abandon us?"
"I want to try to get a story together. This thing pays, and maybe I'll write something awesome and get some extra cash to pay my bills, guys."
"But we can make you money if you would just finish our story, you dolt."
"I--but--I don't believe in myself enough to expect that yet!"
"And you want to write a brand new short without believing in yourself?"
"That's not very nice. I want to talk to one of the nicer characters, you're a jerk."
"You made me that way."
"You get better later on, you know. And watch yourself, it wouldn't be hard to have you break your leg, or get herpes or something."
"You really want to write about my herpes?"
"I can soldier through writing gruesome descriptions, can you soldier through living them?"
"How did this start anyway?"
"I dunno. I think I could use a sammich."
"Sandwich."
"No, that's what you get to eat. A sammich is what every sandwich wishes they could be. Sammiches are the rock stars of lunch foods."

And so it goes on like that. Never a dull moment in here. I don't know why I posted it either.
 

euclid

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Yeah, me too. I have 3 or 4 stories that I'm now planning to brush up / finish and submit. The past week or so, I've done no writing, just getting snowed under with rejection slips, here. Thanks for the heads-up, Jim. I'm up and running again!
 

James D. Macdonald

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The man ran for cover. As he approached the fence the author put out a hand to stop his flight.

"Where do you think you're going?" the author asked.

"Up and over that fence, if it's all the same to you," the man replied, panting.

"You're planning to confuse your motion, horizontal and vertical, in a single sentence?"

"I'm planning to avoid getting shot," the man replied. He waved his hand vaguely in the direction whence he had come. "The whole bloody Tenth Guards Army is back there and they aren't in a laughing mood."

"You're safe as long as you're with me," the author said. "This is first draft--I can do anything."

"Anything?"

"Yes."

"Then get me over the fence, pronto."

Without seeming to move, with no consciousness of the passage of time, the man found himself on the other side of the fence.

"Wait a bloody minute!" he said. "How did you punctuate that?"

"Either with a comma, or without one, depending on the sentence rhythm," the author said. "You were running--no comma I think. Just sprinting in a headlong pell-mell dash."

"Do you mean to say that the rules of grammar--"

"Are just guidelines. Yes."

"But which is correct?"

"The one that sounds right. Here, have comfit."

"What's a comfit?"

"Dried fruit, nuts, or spices enclosed in sugar candy. Like Jordan almonds. Why? Don't you know the word?"

"No, I didn't."

"I'll fix it in the second draft," the author said. "Maybe I'll offer you a nice slice of fruitcake."

"But what about the punctuation question?" the man insisted.

"I don't like the version with the semicolon," the author said. "Of the others either could be correct depending on the sentences around them."

"I just used a 'said' word that isn't 'said' and you didn't notice."

"So you did," the author replied. "I noticed but didn't care. You want rules? Aren't any."

A bullet zinged by the man's head; the author had vanished.

"At least I got over the bloody fence."

The man ran for the safety of the trees.
 

Ton Lew Lepsnaci

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Thanks, I guess :) Punctuation without rules ... puts my intuition in the driver's seat. The poor thing is running for cover. This may be the x-th draft, but using a second language. I know, I know, that's against the guidelines. Yet here we are, wondering. Kids need boundaries, so do new writers and it feels so much safer behind bars. Can't you offer at least some? And what is that sardonic laughter in the background?

Ah, but you threw me some bars after all: "I don't like the version with the semicolon," the author said. "Of the others either could be correct depending on the sentences around them." I read too quickly.
 
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euclid

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http://www.tor.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=blog&id=59268
Tor.com welcomes original short SF and fantasy, broadly defined. We’re particularly interested in stories under 12,000 words, although we’ve made exceptions in the past and will do so again. We pay 25 cents a word for the first 5,000 words, 15 cents a word for the next 5,000, and 10 cents a word after that. Although we try to employ common sense in dealing with edge cases, “original” means original—not previously published. Contrary to some previous reports, we do not want you to query first; to submit to Tor.com, just send us your story. Stories should use standard manuscript format and be emailed as Word, RTF, or plain-text attachments. Stories sent inline in the body of an email will be ignored. Questions? Send them to [email protected]

Jim, do these pay rates apply for EACH story, or are they cumulative? If I get one story accepted, 5,000 words, say, and then I submit another one, should I expect the second story (if accepted) to fetch 15c per word?
 

NoGuessing

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Speaking of archetypes and cliches, as we just were, here is the Fantasy Novelist's Final Exam.

It's a handy list, but on the most part (bar obvious ones like "hit points", which will never, ever be seen in any of my novels) I think its just a couple of men finding an excuse to be snarky. I read the entire site, and the writer hasn't actualy written any non-comedic fantasy himself, so I get some tall-poppy syndrome vibes.

On #33, Robert Jordan has done far more for fantasy than this David J Parker has ever done to date, not to mention Jordan took the "farmhand chosen one" cliche and on the whole made it work for the millions of people who bought his books.

Its just my opinion of course.

On a sidenote "snarky internet fantasy cliche critics/bashers" are on the verge of becoming cliches themselves. :p

For the record, I answered "yes" to 50 and "sort of" to 4 and 9. I'm researching 47 so I do know how it works.
 

euclid

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That was a good 'un! The cat seemed to enjoy the experience.

PS Jim, How do you find these? I mean, are you rummaging through U-tube videos all day (iso writing)?
 

James D. Macdonald

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It was, in fact, one jump away from an article about book covers. (The article had a link to a Youtube video; the cat vacuuming was a 'related' video which ... well.)

I have a good memory. When I find things, I know where to file them.
 

smsarber

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Hey UJ, congrats on Lincoln's Sword! I really enjoyed Land of Mist and Snow, so I look forward to this one.

I've been absent from this thread because I have't done anything novel-related lately. Since the surgeries and long hospitalization I lost track of where I was on the book. Ihave my previous progress printed ou, so I can read it and hopefully get the feeling of it back, then the idea is that it will flow again like it was.

That's the idea. Let ya know if it works. For anyone who doesn't know, I had a lung removed in December. Complications led to bowel surgery 4 days later. I spent 70 days in the hospital, went home for 7, went back for 3, went home for 11, went back for 26, back home for 35, then back for 8. I have one more surgery, to reverse the ostomy, then home free (that's the idea). So I've really been focusing on short stories lately. Hope I can get back into novel-format relatively easily:D.
 

euclid

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Good to hear from you Stephen.

I'm working on shorts as well, for other, less dramatic reasons - my daughter is here on a visit from Australia for a month with her husband and twins (14 months).