Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

Stacia Kane · May 3, 2010

You know what's really sad? Clicking the links of the websites of the posters in those threads. Most of them are no longer there, and the few that are haven't been updated in years.

brainstorm77 · May 4, 2010

circlexranch said:
It looks like her post, and only her post, has been deleted.

She's been eliminated as per the usual.

Cyia · May 4, 2010

Stacia Kane said:
You know what's really sad? Clicking the links of the websites of the posters in those threads. Most of them are no longer there, and the few that are haven't been updated in years.

That's the true sadness of what happens when someone who thought they were with a legit commercial press figures out they aren't. Like many people who've been used, they're embarrassed, and rather than demand the respect they deserve as human beings, they want to fade away and hope they're forgotten.

For anyone of those writers who may be lurking here - YOU didn't do anything wrong and YOU have nothing to be embarrassed about. Failure with a PA is NOT indicative of failure as a writer or an indicator that your book has no merit. It means that you can't make a profit in a vacuum, and if you're trying to hawk an overpriced, under quality, non-edited, mistakes added, novel with non-standard print and possibly mobile pages that has no shelf placement and no one knows exists... you're selling in a vacuum of the people who already know you. Don't stop writing, even if it's just for yourself - start with a post detailing your treatment. You don't have to put it out there in public, but it'll make you feel better.

merrihiatt · May 4, 2010

What Cyia said. PA only wins if we stop writing and remain silent. Let your voice be heard, and put that pen back in your hand... er... put your fingers back on your keyboard!!!

ctripp · May 4, 2010

If they don't, they have breached the contract and the other party to the contract can take steps, if they so choose, to remedy the situation.

Brian, the only steps I have ever known a publisher to take if an author or illustrator can not fufill their contract, is to demand all advances back. If PA has spent nothing, has sent nothing, then what would a court ever offer them, should they attempt to sue an author. Of course, they wouldn't bother.
I get the idea of sending a crap novel rather then nothing at all. Since PA doesn't read the submissions, they would never know this wasn't the work they requested anyway, right?

brianm · May 4, 2010

ctripp said:
Brian, the only steps I have ever known a publisher to take if an author or illustrator can not fufill their contract, is to demand all advances back.

If that were all you had said, I would not have corrected you. This is the bit I had a problem with.

ctripp said:
No printer or publisher can force a writer to finish a book nor sue them for such (though I am sure PA would try to threaten it).

A publisher can't force a writer to finish a manuscript but they can and have the right to sue if the writer breaches the contract by failing to produce the work within the prescribed time frame.

It's doubtful PA would take any steps but the writer still needs to either comply with the terms and conditions of the contract or get the contract canceled.

~brianm~

Marian Perera · May 6, 2010

A PA loyalist gets into it with an ex-PA supporter on Facebook.

But here is something that did surprise me, a fellow PA author who friended me on facebook forever ago, left me a comment about it asking why I was displeased with PA. I sent her a link to my website where I have a page warning people about PA. She left me a comment saying she disagreed with me and "You have no one but yourself to blame"...

ctripp · May 6, 2010

and have the right to sue if the writer breaches the contract by failing to produce the work within the prescribed time frame.

Brian, you could be very right and I'm not going to say I know the law (not by any stretch of the imagination

I just have a hard time understanding what the lawsuit would be asking for, if no money (advance) has changed hands while a writer was working on their manuscript. With most law suits there are damages, but I don't see what actual damages a publisher could come up with, nor how they could put a figure on those damages?
Don't most breeches end in either paying back of any advances or making the contract null and void? I'm speaking now only about a manuscript contracted that does not yet exist other then in the authors mind, not about a full and accepted manuscript.
I'm just always interested learning more about the business side of publishing, so, though this is obviously the wrong thread for the question, I'd love to hear more.

James D. Macdonald · May 6, 2010

They have the right to sue, but whether they will is a whole 'nother question.

Just send them 80 pages of word-soup and call it a day. Then tell your email program to delete anything they send automatically and pretend you never heard of them.

LexiCan · May 6, 2010

This was posted in response to others who are saying their books are showing up (finally) on B&N and Amazon. (bolding mine)

WOW! Well it is good to see that some of us are showing up. I have made friends with employees of the local bookstores (B&N, Borders, etc.) None will let me book an event until they are able to show the book in there system. I am hoping the rest of us will start appearing soon. I checked this morning and I was still listed as 'out-of-stock' and 'click here to be notified when this book becomes available'.
I would really appreciate PA keeping us posted as to the progress. We all receive blanket emails about promotions. Would it be so difficult to send them about the current issues? Just venting, I apologize. I am just really frustrated. I had done so much leg-work in promoing the book only to be shut down when this started. Now it is months later and I still can not do anything until the sales are more accessable online.

He's going to be even more disappointed when he finds out that showing up in the online store is NOT the same as "showing in their system". Of course he should be frustrated and should NOT have to apologize to PA.

LexiCan · May 6, 2010

A newbie says...

I am a new author, who wrote an young adult thriller book, and it'll probably be released soon. Some people tried to tell me that PA was a scam, but I told them I could handle myself.

answered by another newbie who was fed PA's usual excuses...

This is a dream come true. I am so impatient though… I just can’t wait to hold the published book in my hands. Congrats to everyone… God Bless (oh and as far as the scam thing- I asked about it? They were very honest and helpful. You can’t believe everything you hear.) Besides what dreams will come true if we don’t take chances….

Actually, in this case, YES! Believe everything you hear about PA.

TheTinCat · May 6, 2010

Besides what dreams will come true if we don’t take chances….

My dream is that this Nigerian prince I met online will give me three million dollars, and I'll just have to take the chance or it'll never happen. Right?

merrihiatt · May 6, 2010

I asked about it? They were very honest and helpful.

Um, asking PA if they are a scam is like asking the person who sends you an e-mail claiming that they'll give you a million dollars if you'll just send them $200 now to cover the costs of setting up an overseas account for you if they're a scam. Would you expect someone who is trying to mislead you to fess up and tell you so?

M.R.J. Le Blanc · May 6, 2010

Some people unfortunately aren't looking for the truth. They're looking for someone who'll tell them what they want to hear. It gives them the chance to avoid facing the prospect that they might just have made a mistake after all.

Never lasts though

HapiSofi · May 6, 2010

ctripp said:
I get the idea of sending a crap novel rather then nothing at all. Since PA doesn't read the submissions, they would never know this wasn't the work they requested anyway, right?

Don't do that to your own work. You could be struck tomorrow by the realization that what that early novel of yours has needed all along is more windup toys, or switching everyone's gender, or having a man come through the door with a gun in his hand, or whatever it turns out to be.

Instead, send PA someone else's bad novel. Pick one that's thoroughly out of copyright. Don't make any alterations in the text; that way there's no danger of the new copyright sticking. Just make sure it's around the right length and is properly formatted.

Marian Perera · May 6, 2010

All is not quiet on the Amazon front

There sure seems to be alot of confusion over the prices of our books at various on-line places. My book is currently being listed on Borders for $27.95 and $48.17 used, while Amazon has some new for $84.96 and used $84.92. PA has my book listed for $21.95. Why so many different prices???? My first book, which I self-published, has never had this problem, and has remained on all internet based sites at the same price for five years now!

I'm glad the author has that basis of comparison. A lot of them don't.

Does anyone know why we see our books being offered at outrageous prices???

Because PA authors are willing to pay it.

I currently sell my own copies for only $20.00, but doing such takes up alot of my time and traveling costs, which can add up! Does anyone have any incite to this confusion and differences in prices lately???

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen PA authors say they're happy to be their own marketing department, that no one knows more about their books than they do (and therefore they're the best people to sell it) and so on. This author was pretty honest about the fact that other expenses are eating into the profits from his selling his book for "only" twenty dollars.

Gillhoughly · May 6, 2010

This author was pretty honest about the fact that other expenses are eating into the profits from his selling his book for "only" twenty dollars.

Gillhoughly arranges a signing at the local B&N. Cost to Gill--zip.

B&N orders copies of Gill's new book. Cost to Gill--zip.

Gill arrives at store. Books are there. Stacks of them. Cost to Gill--zip.

B&N management thoughtfully provides a soft drink from the in-store coffee bar. Gill thanks the management for the kindness.

Gill signs books for three hours. Enjoys every minute. Warns a number of would-be writers to avoid PublishAmerica and recommends they check out Absolute Write. Has such a good time that they all adjourn to the coffee bar for cookies and more chat.

Cost to Gill--includes gas money to get there--less than 20.00 and some time.

Gill's made new friends and warned lots of people off of PA.

Priceless.

And then there's this:

PA writer arranges a signing at the local B&N.

Writer is told she must provide own copies because store doesn't shelve PA titles.

Writer tries to order from PA. PA accepts credit card payment for 24 copies, charging 3.99 S&H for EACH copy.

Cost to writer--95.76 + cost of 24 books for which she will not get a royalty.

Books fail to arrive on time. Signing is canceled.

Cost to writer--her self-respect.

Cyia · May 6, 2010

All the posts about PA authors using their own funds (and gimmicks) to sell their books, along with Gil's post, made me think of what I saw this last weekend at the local Ren Fest. (shut up)

One of the stands at our Ren Fest is a bookshop and this last weekend they held a signing with Peter S. Beagle. It wasn't advertised heavily or even mentioned elsewhere that I saw. They just had a nifty sign beside the shop.

People passed the shop and stopped to see what was going on and before the signing even started, the owner was having to slap people away from the display and into a line because they were taking all of his books before he could get them set up.

Mr. Beagle was great. He stood around and talked to people for the hour before the signing. Not sure how long he stayed each day, but he was there for the weekend, and I'm fairly certain that no one other than the shop owner had to put out money to get the books there.

It was a perfect case of a book fitting the venue, and from the sound of it, a great turn out for a signing... and it was done for the writer, not by the writer.

Cyia · May 6, 2010

From the old "In Defense of Our Publisher" thread:

Publish America has published my book, and I thank them for that, but My official release date was March 29, 2010 and my book is not available at barnes&noble.com, amazon.com or anywhere else except P.A's online bookstore. I have emailed them but have had no response has anyone else experienced this????

They published the book, but no one can get it unless they funnel through PA's site.

Gillhoughly · May 7, 2010

Mr. Beagle was great.

Seconded!

Met him a couple years back and he was just sweet, despite manning a table all day in a dealers room. The line was always long because people would buy more books and keep coming back.

Dear PA lurkers--that's the dif between a pro signing and a PA writer signing.

Readers KNOW about pro books because they're in the stores. Those publishers never have ANY problems meeting ordering obligations. They're pros who know what they're doing.

Most readers have never heard of PA so don't expect them to flock to the PA site to eagerly buy your book. They will go to a store--but PA books won't be there.

But don't believe me. Go to a bookstore today and ask to see all the PA books they have in stock.

Then ask to see all the St. Martin's (or Tor or Random House) books they have in stock.

Check the prices of those books. Compare them to PA prices.

Be honest, which ones would YOU prefer to buy??

Please don't fall back on the "People will pay more for a quality book."

If you're talking about the physical book, they will instantly notice a PA title is pretty shoddy compared to a similar one on the shelf.

If you're talking about the story inside--well, they'll never know since your book won't be there.

Repeat this until it makes sense:

"Available in brick and mortar stores is not the same as shelved in brick and mortar stores."

.

Arkie · May 7, 2010

Two weeks ago I went to my local Barnes and Noble and checked every book on the front eight tables, one being discounts under $7.00. I didn't count all the books but estimate about 300 total, took me about an hour to look inside the front covers. Every book was published in New York by one of the publishers under the umbrella of one of the five publishing conglomerates with North American headquarters in New York City. Not one book from a west coast publisher, not one POD; no PA, Iuniverse, etc. I didn't expect any PODs or self-published books, but I was surprised not to find any books from the west coast, where I thought the combined publishers in LA, San Francisco and Seattle outnumbered the New York group.

brianm · May 7, 2010

ctripp said:
Brian, you could be very right and I'm not going to say I know the law (not by any stretch of the imagination <snip> I'm just always interested learning more about the business side of publishing, so, though this is obviously the wrong thread for the question, I'd love to hear more.

You made a blanket statement that no publisher has the right to sue if a writer fails to fulfill their contractual obligation to provide a manuscript within a prescribed time period. That's incorrect. They do have the right but it doesn't mean they will, as UJ has already stated.

I was concerned a newbie writer might read that blanket statement and think they didn't have to perform if they found themselves in the same situation.

~brianm~

Marian Perera · May 8, 2010

In a thread about how long it takes to hear from the text department, an author who sent five manuscripts to PA says,

I was reading along and you said you paid the rush fee, I did that with a few of my books as well, but what struck me is you giving a date on when they hit SHELVES. Is that figuratively, or do you know what shelves they are actually going to?? This has been very frustrating for me, as though I ask questions about this, I haven't gotten any anwsers.

There were no answers, just a post from another less-than-happy PA author.

for the first book i paid the rush fee and had a copy in my hand the next week butbalthough the offical release date was april 2 the only place that book can be found is on pub am's web site. when i questioned this i first got the run around and now they've iced me ou completely. just wish i'd have wised up to the shady side before i le them have my second book. won't happen again.

Of course, that post was deleted. And on the thread about the books not being available on Amazon/B&N...

My book was suppose to be out it is a children's book <title> on 4/23/ and of course we are all waiting. However on amazon.com is also listed as being out of stock. It does not show the cover of my book will they show it once things get right or am I supposed to somehow put it out there?

thanks to anyone who can answer for me.

Gillhoughly · May 8, 2010

what struck me is you giving a date on when they hit SHELVES. Is that figuratively, do you know what shelves they are actually going to

Both. The book will be going to the author's shelves. Bookstores do not shelve PA books unless you personally beg for the space. That's the figurative bit.

Believe me, the manager will not be happy sacrificing shelf space to an unknown with a POD/vanity title when she could be stocking a title she KNOWS will make a profit.

the only place that book can be found is on pub am's web site.

Yep. That's their idea of promotion. They know YOU know where to find it.

when i questioned this i first got the run around and now they've iced me ou completely.

Hey, it's the only thing they do really well--ignoring writers with uncomfortable questions they don't wanna answer.

However on amazon.com is also listed as being out of stock.

You'll find that's true for just about ALL PA titles. They're not giving you any special treatment.

Who the hell is going to order a title showing as "out of print"?

It does not show the cover of my book will they show it once things get right or am I supposed to somehow put it out there?

Oh, yeah, that's what they meant by promote-promote-promote. You'll have more sales pimping Amway.

Summation: You're screwed, and PA is only too happy to keep at it if you let them.

You lurkers pay attention to the warning labels all over the Net about PA. Seriously. If PA was a restaurant they'd have been shut down, plowed under, and the ground fumigated.

If you just want a book in hand go to Lulu or CreateSpace. You keep your rights and it won't cost as much.

If you want to be pro published, we'll HELP you!

circlexranch · May 8, 2010

Queen of Swords said:
The author of the "To the bashers" thread responds.

QoS, I read through some of the comments on the Facebook page and another long time, now reformed PAer, still doesn't truly get what PA is about. In a very long comment post, she says:

But I failed to realize that they would not edit anything but what I caught and suggested. Therein lies my first problem with them. Wouldn't you stand to make a lot more money if your product was properly edited?

Click to expand...

Even though she is finished with PA, she doesn't understand the business model that does not include selling books to the public, only the author.

But, at least they are both PA-free, that is all that matters.

Plus, she is right. Anyone who calls her names for going with PA deserves her scorn, and ours as well.

Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

Girl Detective

practical experience, FTW

Rewriting My Destiny

Writing! Writing! Writing!

Christine Tripp

Brian Boru

starting over

Christine Tripp

Your Genial Uncle

practical experience, FTW

practical experience, FTW

I am a mighty viking!

Writing! Writing! Writing!

aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan

Hagiographically Advantaged

starting over

Grumpy writer and editor

Rewriting My Destiny

Rewriting My Destiny

Grumpy writer and editor

a reader's ear and a writer's heart

Brian Boru

starting over

Grumpy writer and editor

Terri Coop has been known to write