Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

PVish

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Do we actually know this is a real writer and not a sock puppet for PA?

Since this is the author's sig line, it does seems suspicious:
I am a new author who has submitted my manuscript to Publish America and I have a lot of questions

A new author who has submitted but hasn't published but is telling people to order from PA because they'll get better quality? How could she be sure?
 

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At least PA authors ask easy-to-answer questions:
I looked today and my book was on Barnes and Noble.com.

I guess I'm wondering if it will go on other websites, such as Amazon, and Borders?
Then, will my local bookstores consider selling it in store?
How do I go about getting them to do so?
No.
No.
Get a different publisher.

Adding: Author, if you're reading this, go to your webpage. Click the link you've put that goes to your book on Barnes and Noble.
At the top you'll see a B&N Promotion:
BARGAIN PAPERBACK FICTION SALE: 3 FOR $9.99!
Underneath that is your book, with its list price of $34.95.
 
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merrihiatt

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Haven't hit the final step and then again I don't know what that final step is...

I think acceptance is the second to last step. When you realize the reality of the situation and that some folks will still think handing their book over to PA is a good idea (no matter what we or anyone else says about PA). That doesn't mean we stop spreading the word (which is the last step -- helping other authors see PA for who and what they are while you continue to write your next novel), it just means that realistic expectations are needed or the frustration factor keeps going up and up.
 

Marian Perera

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The title of this thread is "What is the realistic and optimum solution for this problem".

Hello from Amazon.com.

Due to a lack of availability from our suppliers, we will not be able to obtain the following item(s) from your order:

<title>
This is from an author who has five books with PA. The book in question was released on April 5, but there is no image or even price on Amazon, just this message : Sign up to be notified when this item becomes available.

I imagine the only solution is to buy the books from PA instead, since the two threads immediately below this one are from authors about ordering their own books. One of them is buying her $29.95 book for $23 instead, with PA's 20% discount. With s&h added, she'll be extremely lucky to break even if she sells them.

If even half the authors who currently buy their own books would stop doing so...
 

Gillhoughly

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From FaceBook:

I am very excited to announce that I have signed another contract with Publish America!
So they came to you to ask for a bio. Big deal. The other 40K writers got that same ego-feeding "Dear Author" bait mail.

Did they offer real money? When a publisher approaches a writer for work, then the writer is in a position to demand a better deal than the previous one.

Are you at all famous for anything besides signing books away to PA and Tate, a subsidy publisher?

Do you think that others besides the three friends listed on your page are going to be interested in your life? I've had a way more interesting life, sold books to real publishers, but no one is hammering on my mailbox demanding a deal on my personal story.

The contract is negotiable, yanno. Demand a 4-figure advance, a longer deadline, and shorten the duration of the PA's possession of the print rights to 1 year.

THEN see if they're still anxious to know your life story.

Or just ask how many books you're expected to buy-buy-buy.

Tate Publishing. Dear dog.

Edited by a shame-faced Gillhoughly to mark through the a&&hattery.

Gillhoughly finally remembered that PA writers are first and foremost VICTIMS-VICTIMS-VICTIMS!
 
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PVish

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A new author asks
I was going to order some books and when I went to put them in the cart, I noticed they were at full price. How do we get our 20% discount on there? My book at $29.95, should come up as $23.96 with the discount, but it still comes up full price. How do we get the discounted price?
but an hour later realizes
Never mind, I found it. I didn't realize we had to call in our orders to get our discounts.
Another author suggests
I'd also take advantage of special e-mail offers to purchase copies of your own book, as you can often get your own book for 40 percent off or better with very low minimum order requirements.
. . . which is probably why those specials sound like such a good deal.

PA lurkers: My very small publisher gives me the same discount that book stores get. But I've never needed to use that discount because that very small commercial publisher also gave me a big box of books. Free. This is how real publishing works.
 
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PVish

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More misinformation:
My shipments have been timely on my original $29.95 version. However, I believed I had ordered and authorized the $14.95 version and $9.95 version with two of my orders. Not so I guess. No response from author support as yet and that's been two weeks. So I am still very confused about that part. Over the past year many things have been happening to include us authors with the financial responsibilities. I guess as a business man I understand the advantage to the publisher as to using the authors money to open new markets. We, after all chose them and what they decide is what we do. The only part of it I still don't understand is the short deadlines. I'd like to see a more attainable time limit because some of us have to glean a few bucks from a tight budget.

The length of time to recieve an order is usually lengthy but that's the case with most POD's.

Um, no. Several years ago, I used a reputable vanity POD for some small projects. I never had to wait more than four days before the order was on my doorstep. And if I ordered 20 copies, shipping was free.
 

PVish

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But PVish, you weren't a "Published Author!" It costs real money to get that title!

And PA isn't a POD. They say so. A lot.

Books from the vanity press I used cost considerably less than books from PA—which, of course, doesn't charge its authors to be published. PA has said so many times. Of course, they make up for it in other charges. . . .
 

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Another author who didn't pay to be published:
As for the business cards, brochures and even bookmarks, I also did my own on the computer. It is very easy; some computer programs may even have templates you can use to go by. It saves so much money and with the economy allot of us are in the same boat. I am having my first book signing in September. I have printed out flyers and posted them in the local businesses in the surrounding towns. I am doing it at my local Library, so I had to purchase some books.
She paid the cost of bookmarks and brochures, and she paid the costs of driving from town to town to post the flyers, and she had to purchase the books so she can do a signing at the library. Yet even the smallest micro press will provide the author with free bookmarks and postcards, will pay the costs of nominating books for awards, will provide free copies to the author for promo, and will arrange for books to be available for signings -- all at the publisher's expense.

I'm glad PA's "traditional" methods aren't traditional in the industry.
 

DaveKuzminski

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It's cheaper to "buy" a star, name it Dave, and say I own a piece of the heavens.

You bought me a star? You're so nice.

By the way, I have a PVish book. It's quite good and still holding up from a production standpoint. At least I think it is. I can't find it now under all my other books. Sorry PVish, but books do tend to get buried by newer books. ;)
 

Marian Perera

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Wikipedia self-entry deleted

Today was a summit in which I learned of the benefits of internet search engines utlized to broadcast "good news". Of course, my first thought was to get the word out about <title> and the exciting escape to the high seas of the Spanish Main on its pages. <name> and I quickly ran through a list of possibilities and decided upon Wikipedia. So...after carefully crafting a lively description of myself and my novel, I posted with success, only to receive an alert that the postings (both of them!) would soon be deleted due to improper references.

YIKES!
I don't know how people get the idea they can use Wikipedia for free marketing. Though perhaps when they're being told they're just like Stephen King now, the logical conclusion is that they deserve an entry there too.
 
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Gillhoughly

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Yikes, indeed.

I've got rather a large Wiki page, but never knew of it until a friend tipped me off a couple years after it appeared. Until then, I'd never heard of Wikipedia, period. I have no idea who put it up but am grateful.

Thankfully, no one's bumped it off, and I update whenever a new book comes out. My bio is sparse, just basics, and there are no real descriptions of the books. The name of the publisher and ISBN are after the titles with a link to my website, but that's it.

Perhaps that writer had links to the book's ordering page on PA & to the Amazon listing, which must be the big no-no.

Dear PA Writers
--if you want real sales of your books, land a contract with a REAL publisher that has books IN STORES.

Check your contract. Nothing in there says PA HAS to do that part--and surprise!--they don't.

I sort of recall it's one of those "at the publisher's discretion" things.
 

AlexPiper

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In fairness, Wikipedia's criteria for deletion or reversion can be really unevenly or irrationally applied. My favorite story was about an actor who saw something horribly inaccurate in his own biography -- something basic, like where he was born -- and corrected it, and had it reverted because 'you're not allowed to self-edit pages, in case of biased viewpoints.' But there are also examples of someone correcting a blatantly wrong detail on a page about some historical event or scientific theory, and then they'll be told that because they're in the field they can't edit it because they might show bias for their own theories. As a result, Wikipedia is probably the only encyclopedia where an article written by a layperson will be better regarded than someone who's an expert in the field in question.

On the other hand, this particular case seems pretty cut-and-dried. :p
 

Stacia Kane

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Perhaps that writer had links to the book's ordering page on PA & to the Amazon listing, which must be the big no-no.


They generally delete "vanity" pages, and they delete pages where the subject isn't important/well-known/significant/whatever enough to get a page. It's their "Notability" guideline.

There's a special Notability Guideline page for books:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BK

Here are some of the most interesting parts (bolding mine):

Books should have at a minimum an ISBN (for books published after 1975), be available at a dozen or more libraries and be catalogued by its country of origin's official or de facto national library. For example, in the United States books are catalogued by the Library of Congress; United Kingdom at the British Library; Australia at the National Library of Australia; Canada at the Library and Archives Canada; France at the Bibliothèque nationale de France, Singapore at the National Library Board; in Brazil by the Fundação Biblioteca Nacional; Argentina at Biblioteca Nacional de la República Argentina; and in India at the National Library of India. For a complete list, see List of national libraries.

However, these are exclusionary criteria rather than inclusionary; meeting these threshold standards does not imply that a book is notable, whereas a book which does not meet them, most likely is not. There will be exceptions—books that are notable despite not meeting these threshold standards—but they will be rare and good reasons for the notability of such books should be made very clear.

[edit]Self-publication
In this regard, it should be especially noted that self-publication and/or publication by a vanity press indicates, but does not establish non-notability.[7] Exceptions do exist, such as Robert Gunther's Early Science in Oxford or Edgar Allan Poe's Tamerlane. Note however that both of these books would be considered notable by virtue (for instance) of criterion 1.
Taking the preceding threshold section into account, it should be noted that many vanity press books are assigned ISBN numbers, may be listed in a national library, and may be found through a Google Book Search, none of which implies they are notable.
It should always weigh against an article's inclusion if the author or another interested party is the creator of the Wikipedia article. See Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Autobiography for more information.

[edit]Online bookstores

A book's listing at online bookstores such as Barnes & Noble.com or Amazon.com is not by itself an indication of notability as both websites are non-exclusionary, including large numbers of vanity press publications. There is no present agreement on how high a book must fall on Amazon's sales rank listing (in the "product details" section for a book's listing) in order to provide evidence of its notability or non-notability.


But yeah, I don't get the "Wikipedia as free ad space" thing either. And frankly, the very idea of creating a Wikipedia page for myself or my books horrifies me (I do have a page, but I didn't create it and I've never edited it or anything; even if I could figure out how to do so I wouldn't). I don't need to pat myself on the back that hard, or to resort to such desperate ploys in an effort to do the job my publisher should be doing for me.
 

TheTinCat

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Also, who searches Wikipedia in hopes of finding a new book by an unknown writer? It just doesn't make sense any way you slice it.
 

PVish

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By the way, I have a PVish book. It's quite good and still holding up from a production standpoint. At least I think it is. I can't find it now under all my other books.

The vanity publisher who published this collection of my previously published columns—unlike PA—made it clear what they did and didn't do in their easy-to-understand contract and with conversations I had with the publisher's rep. I felt like I was hiring them to produce a product that I would market only locally to a niche market and I knew I wasn't "chosen" by the company. I also knew the book wasn't destined to become a NYT best-seller, that I wouldn't make a livable wage from it (although I've turned a better profit than the average PA book), I wouldn't consider it a publication credit, and that it wouldn't be promoted by the publisher, although—unlike PA—it was soon listed on amazon.com and other online sellers. Unlike PA books, it has a reasonable price (which—unlike PA authors—I knew in advance because this vanity POD bases its prices on number of pages). Unlike PA, this vanity POD publisher emails authors a monthly royalty report, so I know that this book has sold 419 copies during its lifetime—not very good but way better than the average PA book. Oh, and—unlike PA authors—I've never paid for shipping.

But, yeah, I did have to pay to get published. This was way before Lulu and Createspace.
 

AlexPiper

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Also, who searches Wikipedia in hopes of finding a new book by an unknown writer? It just doesn't make sense any way you slice it.

I imagine it makes sense from an SEO standpoint; Wikipedia is a very highly 'weighted' site in search results, so if Wikipedia pages link to your book's site, that increases the search rank. And she mentions reading pages on how to make your book more readily found, so I suspect she was trying to increase her page rank; thousands of links on little sites (like spam links posted to blogs and forums) or a couple of links on big sites (like Wikipedia) are the quick -- and largely unethical -- ways to boost your search ranking.
 

stormie

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Another author who didn't pay to be published:

She paid the cost of bookmarks and brochures, and she paid the costs of driving from town to town to post the flyers, and she had to purchase the books so she can do a signing at the library. Yet even the smallest micro press will provide the author with free bookmarks and postcards, will pay the costs of nominating books for awards, will provide free copies to the author for promo, and will arrange for books to be available for signings -- all at the publisher's expense.

I'm glad PA's "traditional" methods aren't traditional in the industry.
Bolding mine. Very true.
.
 

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A PA author praises bookstores and bargain book sales:
I wish there was a book store here in Tell City, Indiana. All we have is Walmart. Before I had to retire from work because of illness, I went to Books-A-Million in Owensboro, Kentucky and would walk out of there with a big bag of books for almost nothing. And these were of well known authors like Nora Roberts, James Patterson, Kathy Reicks and Danielle Steel.

But now I don't get to go there anymore and I sure miss it.
I wonder how long it'll take before a cheerleader comes along and tells her that bookstore placement means nothing to authors and has no effect on 'sells', and that readers are happy to pay $35 for a book whose quality is clearly superior because it has PA on the spine?
 

Marie Pacha

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Susan Gable

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Stacia Kane sez: "I don't need to pat myself on the back that hard, or to resort to such desperate ploys in an effort to do the job my publisher should be doing for me."

I haven't even been on here since last March, but it's just the same old, same old. Here it is nearly Sept. and Stacia is still high up on her horse of arrogance XD

Some things NEVER change.

Whoa. Grapes sour much?



*dropping out again for the next 6 mos*

Given your "contribution" to this thread, I think that might be for the best.

Susan G.