Return of a Man Named PAMB and its Quotes

Marian Perera

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There's all sorts of happiness on the PAMB today.

No kidding. In response to a thread that began with,

I sent PA a questions asking if I get a booksigning event but have to provide my own books what do I do, because I dont have the money to pay upfront for books. So do I just put the event on hold until I can afford them or what? Im in a bit of a pickle I guess.

another author said,

I don't really have any advice but just thought I'd write to say I'm with ya. I'm so broke it aint even right. They sent me an email saying (pretty much) if I ordered so many copies they would ask John Grisham to endorse my book...I've got numerous offers like that I just wonder why cant they just ask him anyway...I mean it wouldnt cost them nothing to ask and if he did it would help make them money too....

Think about this. If your publisher has two options:

1. Ask John Grisham to endorse your book
2. Ask John Grisham to endorse your book, but only if you buy a certain number of copies

and option 2 is selected, your publisher can make money even without Grisham's endorsement.

Unfortunately most authors link their success with PA's and believe that PA also needs to sell books to readers to be profitable.
 
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merrihiatt

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Unfortunately most authors link their success with PA's and believe that PA also needs to sell books to readers to be profitable.

Exactly! They don't realize PA makes their money from the books their authors purchase, not from readers buying copies of PA books.
 

Marian Perera

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http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=32428

Hmm. My crystal ball sees a tone letter and the cornfield in the future

To the cornfield it went, but not before PA's newest loyalist managed to scold the unhappy authors and spread misinformation.

I can see your point, and I hope my experience isn't the same. But from what I hear, There has been some problem with some of the book stores recently.

Also apparently they have changed distributors and this has come at a bad time for you/ us. Hopefully they will get this all cleared up, but I have to remind you that the publishing business is slow. No matter if your self published, PA published, or one of the big 6 published.

Which of the major houses switched distributors without having all their ducks in a row, such that their authors' books weren't available online for months?

And besides, if you're accepted by one of them, you get paid far more. You get professional service. You get an editor with whom you can correspond if there's a problem. What do you get with PA? Just $1 and the hassle?

Everything in this business moves slow. Also you have to factor in that PA has no control of when Amazon does anything. They are there own corporation. If they have put red tape for PA to jump through, then thats Amazons prerogative.

To summarize:

If you're having problems it's the bookstores' fault, the publishing industry's fault and Amazon's fault.

PA has a lot of negative PR out there thanks to a lot of authors that didn't read their contracts and had no idea what thy signed up for. When they start to have problems they run off looking for some answers from the web, and find all the hate mail from people who didn't have a clue. Then they get this mob mentality and join the crowd, because they must of got screwed to.

Where in the contract did it mention that books would be unavailable online for months?

You do realize if you had been one of the lucky 1 to 2 percent of the authors to be picked up by one of the big 6 publishers, that it would take 2 to 4 years for your book to be published?

Firstly, I think talent, hard work, research and persistence have at least as much to do with it as luck.

Secondly, you do realize that contracts include deadlines by which a book has to be published? If writers didn't like a four-year deadline (which sounds unrealistic to me), their agents could negotiate that.

Thirdly, whatever that time frame is, you do realize that the major houses pay far better advances than PA does? With such an advance, I can wait a couple of years for my book to be released. Probably because I'll be writing another book in that time - having a publisher to take care of marketing and distribution gives you that option.

Personally I don't understand anyone not researching there publisher before they sign their contracts, and even more surprised people actually sign a contract with out reading it, and then get pissed about it. PA is not a big 6 publisher. It's more like a hybrid. Some where between the big guys and the self publishing. They do a lot of things like a big publisher..like printing your book for free, and like a self publisher. You do most of the promoting.

PA is a pod printer. That means they don't have a warehouse stalked with your books. Because of this, (no warehouse) They haven't taken book returns for most of their existence. Thats no different with any of the POD publishers, like create space and lulu.

So it looks as though, by this loyalist's reasoning, PA combines the worst aspects of both the major publishers and the vanity presses. It's slow as molasses and doesn't take returns.

Book stores here PA and say we will pass because it's POD. But from what I understand, PA will do returns now.

Then you don't understand as much as you think you do, because on February 9, 2010, infocenter said,

infocenter said:
Returnability is an ongoing experiment, and it is currently on hiatus. PublishAmerica is in the process of changing primary wholesalers, moving our titles to Baker & Taylor.

There is no indication that PA's "ongoing experiment" has restarted.

I'm not sure if it' automatic, or you have to request it, or you have to pay for this option. Which ever it is, get it.

So on top of buying their own books, authors should now pay for returnability?

Because will open the book stores to your books.

No, it won't. The books are still overpriced and unedited. And PA's idea of returnability comes with either a restocking fee or no discount to the bookstores, meaning that even if the author pays for returnability the books still aren't likely to be stocked.

Anyways I could go on, but this is long enough. Good luck with your sales, but you really need to do some honest research in this business before you jump into it.

Glass houses, stones, etc.

I feel sorry for the other two authors - not only are they concerned about the lack of availability, they got berated for expressing those worries.
 
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TheTinCat

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I'm not sure if it' automatic, or you have to request it, or you have to pay for this option. Which ever it is, get it.

And you see nothing wrong with this?
 

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That means they don't have a warehouse stalked with your books.

I don't know about anyone else, but I really want to know what I need to do to get my publisher to make my books stalk warehouses. After all, my publisher is Llewellyn, and if there's a publisher on the face of the planet that can make this happen, it ought to be them! :D
 

Cyia

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Honeymoon stage: nothing PA does is wrong. Or shill, with the same result.


I think it's more than that. This is the guy I thought (hoped) was being intentionally ironic with some of his comments, but now it's pretty clear that he's not. He's one that says he did extensive research on the publishing industry and has rationalized away any negatives about PA. He really thinks he's a well informed expert on how publishers work across the board and that confidence is making the less sure flock to his posts. The Dunning-Kruger effect strikes again.
 

LexiCan

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Then they get this mob mentality and join the crowd, because they must of got screwed to.

Sorry if this sounds snarky, but this is one of the grammar mistakes that drives me crazy! It's "would HAVE" not "would OF"
 

Little1

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Quote:
That means they don't have a warehouse stalked with your books.


Just the thought of that cracked me up. My book with a little mask :evil :e2sven:
 

merrihiatt

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That means they don't have a warehouse stalked with your books.

PA authors unite! We will gather at midnight under the cloak of darkness to stalk the warehouse. Maybe we'll take a side trip to the PA Cornfield while we're at it. I hear there's some good readin' of PAMB posts there. Maybe we can STOCK up on reading material.

/end snark
 

Marian Perera

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An author asked about whether the ebook option was still on the table, and a cheerleader replied,

A little while ago PA sent out email notices to us authors offering to convert our books to ebook format in time for the ipod conversion. Of course the catch was that we had to pay a certain amount to have them do that or buy x amount of copies of our books as usual. I passed on the offer because I could not afford it. I don't think they will convert your book now into an ebook since the offer ended some time ago but you can check with author support or the infocenter anyway to make sure.

PA's methods seem to be transparent to everyone there except the greenest of the newbies. The original author replied,

I think it would be advantageous to both PA and the authors for them to make the ebooks available for every title though, without having to charge.
icon_wink.gif

"No, no, infocenter, of course I'm not one of those disgruntled bashers who expects PA to do everything for free while I just sit around! See the smiley? It was a joke, ha ha. Please don't ban me."
 

Gillhoughly

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You do realize if you had been one of the lucky 1 to 2 percent of the authors to be picked up by one of the big 6 publishers, that it would take 2 to 4 years for your book to be published?
Which is standard.

You want to go faster and have the same level of PA's distribution to bookstores (zero) then go to Lulu or CreateSpace.

Publishers have a lag time for a reason. They're busy putting your book through a proper edit, buying good cover art, and making sure the marketing department has things lined up to get that book into stores and library catalogs.

You know--all the stuff PA doesn't bother doing.

Oh, and writing CHECKS to their authors. Four figures for most, sometimes more. They are investing in the writer.

PA invests one dollar and an endless supply of emails urging their customers (PA calls them Published Authors) to buy their own books.

It's usually a 1-2 year wait between contract signing and release. It might run to 4 years if the author can't meet a deadline. If so, then they'll bump up another title to take its place in the release schedule.

I had an 18-month wait after a major house picked my title out of their slush pile, paid me a 4-figure advance, and advertised it in a trade magazine. During that time I wrote 3 more novels and got paid for them, too.

Yes, NEW WRITERS DO ACTUALLY SELL BOOKS TO THE "BIG 6." They are actively looking for the next big thing. They don't have time to gang up on newbies to thwart their literary ambitions. Really, they don't.

It is not 1-2 percent of the authors--it's 1-2 percent of submissions. There's a good reason for this. The other 98 percent just aren't up to snuff.

Those authors who sell are not "lucky"--they wrote something publishable. That's the ONLY catch. Publishers don't randomly pick a sub from the slush pile. They look for good writing they can sell to the general public. To do anything else would put them out of business.

before they sign their contracts, and even more surprised people actually sign a contract with out reading it, and then get pissed about it.
How about inexperienced people believe the website claims and don't know enough to recognize the red flags in a PA contract? It's more logical.

PA is not a big 6 publisher. It's more like a hybrid.
Genetic monstrosity is more accurate.

PA is a pod printer.
But they say they're NOT. Right here. "Fact" number 5. If they say something then it must be true. They wouldn't LIE to their own writers just to make a few bucks. Would they?

PA has a lot of negative PR out there thanks to a lot of authors that didn't read their contracts and had no idea what thy signed up for.

We have ample statements from ex-PA writers to the contrary. Many have moved on to sell work to real publishing houses. They had a right to be PO'd and rightly blamed PA for ripping them off. PA represents itself as a legit publishing operation, and of course no one on the Internet ever, ever LIES.

The negative PR is for a good reason. Time to wake and smell that coffee!

When they start to have problems they run off looking for some answers from the web, and find all the hate mail from people who didn't have a clue.

Here we go, people and entities Who Don't Have a Clue:

The Washington Post
John Scalzi
Editor Teresa Neilsen Hayden
Lee Goldberg
Consumer Affairs
The Science Fiction and Fantasy Authors of America
Writer's Weekly
The Frederick News Post (their home town paper)

Tip of the iceberg.

Don't trot out the "That's old news" argument. PA hasn't changed since then and is not inclined to do so. We hear from new people every week looking for help. As long as the desperate, deluded, impatient, and barely literate ignore the warnings, PA is going to continue to wave the flag, praise Jesus, invoke Oprah's name, and rip people off for as much as they can manage.

And the very sad fact is that you're willing to let them do that to you.

Sorry, mate. Your feet are wet and you can see pyramids.

.
 
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Unimportant

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Lordy. This one, a response to the "why don't they just ask John Grisham to blurb us without charging us?" won't last long.

haha I know right? I was telling my husband that same exact thing, that its all a way to make money off of us. I mean no offense to PA cause I know we are being monitered but I feel that if they wanted to give us the publicity that they email us about then they could in a heartbeat. But unfortunatly I dont have the money to give them or to order my own books so that kinda screws me over in the whole books signing thing. I mean I have some really good ideas to get me publicity but I DEFINATLY do not have the capitol for it. Which is a major bummer.
 

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Lee Goldberg--who doesn't have a clue, BTW according to that PA booster ;) --mentions Publish America in his blog today.

This is for those who think links I gave are outdated.

Feel sorry for that writer who got sucked into the PA black hole. We redact their names here on AW, but Mr. Goldberg is not obliged to do so on his blog. Now people know her name and her book's title, but not in a good way.
 

Marian Perera

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The first comment to that entry: burn. And when you enter the author's name and the book's title into Google, Lee Goldberg's blog is the first hit, though that's partly because the author doesn't seem to have a webpage.

On the PAMB, late delivery again.

does anybody know how long it generally takes for a book order for someone to get to them? I have had many people tell me they have ordered my book on here and they are wondering why they still haven't got it after 21/2 weeks. One of my friends even ordered back in Febuary and she still hasn't recieved it.

This is one reason I won't order anything from PA no matter what the special-offer-of-the-day is. Plus, there's always the chance that the wrong book will arrive, or it'll be smeared with glue, or the pages will fall out, etc.
 

PVish

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The latest PA cheerleader, whose book isn't out yet, weighs in on booksignings (bolding mine):
In a normal book signing event, no, you wouldn't bring any of your own books, unless you wanted to have extra, just in case. From what some of the people have told me who have done some book signings with PA's help, Contact their book signing division. They will want the email and address and managers name of the store you want.

Then when they have time they will talk to them and if things go well the manager will contact you about having said signing.

As to sending your book to a celebrity for endorsing? Anyone can do that. What your paying for is the fact that since a publisher is sending it, that it might have more weight to get the celebrity to read it and recommend it. It's a gamble, as most celebrity get tons of merchandise sent to them to endorse.

The reality is, most new published authors in the mainstream big 6, don't make enough money to pay back their advance. The average book only sells 500 or so books. So publishers lose money on most of them. It's only a few books that actually make money, and make up for all the loss from the others.

Now thats the big 6. Think about PA? They give people that the big 6 wouldn't publish a chance. How many do you think fail in comparison to the big 6? If you were a business that knew most of the books were going to flop, and sell less then a 500 copy's and that mostly to friends and family, would you be willing to spend your capitol on a lot of untried authors beyond getting them into the market?

Most authors aren't willing to spend the time to promote their own books? They have almost zero presence on the web, and their current sales don't support the evidence to put any financial backing behind them. Personally I think PA has gotten lazy and just sits back and takes the little they get from authors friends and family. They survive on that, selling your book to you and family.

But I'm also sure that when an author actually begins to promote and get active in selling their books, they slowly come alive and will actually help you some what in your endeavors. Thats my two cents. hope it helps. I've been selling books on Amazon and other book stores before I ever signed up for PA. Thats how it usually works with these smaller press company's, that your not paying for anything but books.

The image of PA slowly coming alive is downright creepy. Anybody want to do a line by line on this?
 

JulieB

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The reality is, most new published authors in the mainstream big 6, don't make enough money to pay back their advance. The average book only sells 500 or so books. So publishers lose money on most of them. It's only a few books that actually make money, and make up for all the loss from the others.

My first book was in a second printing before it hit the bookstore shelves.

I can promise you a major publisher isn't even going to think about publishing a book if they only think they can sell 500 copies.

When I get royalty checks, that means the publisher has made money. And I'm just a little old D-list author.

ETA: "Pay back their advance?" I think the author means "earn out their advance." Remember folks, when a commercial publisher pays an author an advance, it's theirs, unless the author fails to live to their end of the contract. Otherwise, the book can sell five copies and the author doesn't have to pay back a thing.

ETA again: All the self-promotion in the world doesn't do you one bit of good if readers can't easily purchase your book.
 
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James D. Macdonald

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The reality is, most new published authors in the mainstream big 6, don't make enough money to pay back their advance.
He/she means "to earn out" rather than "to pay back." That minor matter of terminology aside, this isn't surprising because that's the way the system is meant to work. The advance is supposed to approximate the amount the book will learn over its life.


The average book only sells 500 or so books.
I know where this particular factoid came from. It was bollocks then, and it's bollocks now.

So publishers lose money on most of them.
Actually, no. Publishers start making money on titles long before the advance earns out. Publishing may be driven by best-sellers, but it's supported, day-to-day, by the okay-sellers.

It's only a few books that actually make money, and make up for all the loss from the others.
Most books make money. If you find a publisher where most of their books lose money, they're out of business.

I don't blame this guy. He/she doesn't know what he/she is talking about, but I know where he/she got it.

Think about this, guys.

If the average book among the major publishers sells 500 copies or less ... then every single one of my novels over the past 20+ years has been way way way waaaaay above average. We're talking orders of magnitude here.

I should be a superstar. But I'm not. I'm just a common, ordinary mid-lister.

Maybe the "average" comes when you average in all the titles offered by PublishAmerica, iUniverse, Trafford, Xlibris, Vantage, and some guy with a xerox machine in his basement. Plus the university presses with "A Brief Compendium of the Heresies of Asia Minor in the 12th Century," where once they've sold five hundred copies they've a) exhausted the print run, and b) sold one to everyone in the entire world who's interested.

There are a couple of other errors in that calculation. The raw sales data comes from Bookscan, which only covers about 70% of bookstore sales and misses mass market, mail-order, book club, and every other distribution path entirely. And they're counting, not titles, but ISBNs. The same title can have several ISBNs.

Why use Bookscan? Because it's the only source for sales figures for any publisher that isn't you. Publisher X knows Publisher X's sales, but doesn't have anything beyond an educated guess for sales at Publisher Y, Publisher Z, and Old Fred the Publisher.
 
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kullervo

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I also like the Stockholm Syndrome that sets in at PA. Your job as a writer is to do the best you can for your book and your career; not to worry about whether your publisher is making money. That is the concern of your publisher. "Yes, nobody can buy my book in a bookstore, but my publisher has a helicopter!" Brain-damage much?
 

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For PA customers who sell 500 copies:

Congratulations, you made PA very happy.

You are blessed with a large family, lots of friends, and/or plenty of cash.

(Make sure the royalty statement is accurate, and if you sold all those books yourself, they won't be listed on it.)

By PA standards (self-publishing/vanity) standards that is a runaway best seller.

By professional standards, that book tanked--badly--and the writer better have a pen name ready before subbing a new proposal.

But real publishers don't make mistakes like that if they can help it.

I just got a royalty statement for one of my titles. In the last 6 months it sold only about 700 copies. The book has been in print for 20 years, so things are winding down!


Garrison Keillor discusses things.

"And if you want to write, you just write and publish yourself. No need to ask permission, just open a website. And if you want to write a book, you just write it, send it to Lulu.com or BookSurge at Amazon or PubIt or ExLibris and you've got yourself an e-book. No problem. And that is the future of publishing: 18 million authors in America, each with an average of 14 readers, eight of whom are blood relatives. Average annual earnings: $1.75."

Lee Goldberg linked to this on his blog, quoting that same statement.

Please take note that he (accurately) sees Publish America as self-publishing/vanity venue.

There are other, better, venues for that, of course.
 

christwriter

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I can't resist.

... approximate the amount the book will learn over its life....

Books learn? So the advance is like college tuition? Is there a difference between two-year and four year college tuition for books? And what if your book wants to become a doctor? I mean, that's gotta be a huge amount of tuition, and what if your book impregnates somebody else in med school and has to drop out and go join the army to get away from her gun-wielding Tom Clancy novel-father? I mean, you're out all that money and suddenly your precious baby is out getting bad reviews and trying to raise bad military sci-fi on a fantasy novel's budget. God, that's gotta suck.