The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

What if PA goes out of business due to lack of sales or some other problem?

Do the book rights automatically revert to the authors?

CatSlave said:

What if PA goes out of business due to lack of sales or some other problem?

Do the book rights automatically revert to the authors?

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Probably not. The rights would be considered an asset, which would likely be seized in any bankruptcy proceeding and sold to cover debts. I assume someone like Lulu or Createspace would find the PA rights to be of some value.

If they didn't go bankrupt, the rights would still belong to the non-functional company, and possibly no one would be able to get copies of their books for seven years. There might be a lawsuit at some point, and PA might agree to revert the rights. Or PA might just revert the rights and be done with it.

I would shell out $300 to be rid of PA. I've stated that I am willing to pay to get out of my contract and received no response. Of course, I don't receive any response to any e-mails that I send. I keep saying my next step will be certified/return receipt request letters, but I need to go to the Post Office to pick those up and I keep forgetting to do it as I work during the day, so I need to go on a Saturday.

I don't recommend paying to get out of the contract, but I have two books that are done that go along with the first book that PA still has in their hot little hands. I would like to do something with the trilogy, but need that first book.

I have written other books since signing with PA and am currently half way through writing a fun romance novel. They haven't killed my spirit by a long shot. PA is a bit like gum on the bottom of your shoe. You can still walk with the gum there, but you'd rather scrape it off and toss it in the trash.

^ Maybe that should be my new signature line! Ha!

Or they can sell out to Bouncin' Bobby.

I don't see them going bankrupt anytime soon, they just may not be able to keep up with the volume of books they "accept," so there are fewer releases each month.

This is not a professional publishing concern, but three clowns with a copy machine and no way to fill all the orders.

third one this week...


thought I might brighten up your day.

cut/pasted from my mail box


Dear Author:

Weekend only. One-time only. Because Spring arrives this weekend.



Buy two (2) books, and we will ship SIX (6) books to you. Four (4) of those are FREE, our Welcome Spring Gift to you. Plus we will ship the FREE books to you for FREE.
*Oh, and did we mention the 25 pct discount?

Go to www.publishamerica.net, find your book, click on it, then add to cart, indicate quantity, and use this coupon: Spring6. Then click Recalculate and finish the transaction. Minimum order volume is 8 copies.
Note: the free books don't show in your cart, but the Spring6 coupon automatically triggers their printing and shipping!

Be very quick. Offer expires Sunday night. Hardcovers and fullcolor books are excluded.

Thank you,
PublishAmerica Author Support Team

PS: the Costco and Sam's Club offer is also still valid through Sunday night. See
Monday's email

****************************************************************

​

Is anyone up on the law suit, is PA still delivering books or is there a backlog ?
I'm awful tempted, but buying books will un-do every thing I'd done up till now.

I have got to disagree with the statement that PA does not read the manuscript. Whoever edited my book sent an e-mail asking me to clearify one of the anectdotes.
I believe they view the manuscript like any agent would, read a few pages and if they think the book is somewhat worthy read the whole manauscript. They did make the 40 some corrections my own edit found, they also used my cover art.

If you go into the PA site and bring up a list in several categories, you will find a fiction book also listed as adventure. This tactic beefs up the number of books they claim are published. I'm very doubtful if they actually have 40,000 contracted authors, this number is inflated by repeat authors publishing childrens books that are 45 pages long. One particular author had 5 listed in the Adventure list, and the same 5 showed in the fiction list.
These books are priced at $12.95, and by buying from an offer like the one above they can get copies of their books for$3.23 each.
Folks, they are getting desperate. Clopper may just be vindictive enough to bury all of our books and disappear like Meiners did.

I know, for a fact, that it is hard to accept what has happened to my book. I have moved on but the principles I've lived my life by for 62 years prevents me from turning my back and walking away.

I'm possibly a little slow, but what is a PA lurker?​

A PA lurker is any writer from PA who might be reading these threads.

I hope there's a LOT of them and that we are helping them make up their minds about PA being a lousy career move.

Our biggest rule here is to never slam PA writers--only PA and its abuse of them and their trust.

Throwing good money after bad

TheTinCat said:

True, but no one is obligated to fight PA. No one is obligated to care whether they feed or hurt PA.

If someone picks the easy-but-expensive solution, then they shouldn't be made to feel guilty about that*. We are all allowed to pick our battles.

*Not that I think that is anyone's intention here.

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Would you pay $300 for a lottery ticket that is probably worthless? It's a free country, and everyone can do as they like, but my point was that I think paying PA $300, or buying $600 worth of books, is probably a mistake when the rights to that book are likely worthless (plus, you get the rights back anyway by just waiting out the 7 years).

If I had a publisher standing by ready to publish my book if I could just get the rights back, I would probably swallow hard and pay the price. But to pay good money--and a lot of it--on the off chance that the book might become successful is, in my opinion, not a good decision. The fact that the money goes to the scoundrels who defrauded me out of those rights in the first place is just added incentive not to do the deal.

However, I recognize that each person's circumstances are different, and that reasonable minds can differ on the wisdom of each course of action. I do not condemn those who do pay off PA to get the rights back. But there are very few circumstances under which I would do so.

Hey PA lurkers, if you're having problems receiving your book orders from PA, try checking with Baker & Taylor directly.

They have replaced Lightning Source as the commercial printer PA uses, according to the latest advertising by PA.

This is what B&T told me:

We are not printing books for Publish America.

ETA: Try contacting TextStream, a subsidiary of B&T located in their distribution center in Illinois that does digital printing.

Gillhoughly said:

This is not a professional publishing concern, but three clowns with a copy machine and no way to fill all the orders.

"Giving YOUR special book the "chance it deserves" since 1999!"

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The PA printing office on South Wisner in Frederick appears to be deserted now, no cars, gates standing open and a rezoning sign stuck in the front yard.

ChristineR said:

Probably not. The rights would be considered an asset,. . . .

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Maybe they'll be bundled into Collateralized Manuscript Obligations (CMOs), sliced into tranches, and rated Aaa by Moody's, then sold off to unsuspecting third-world investors as blue-chip bonds. Investors will then buy CDSs against the CMOs, but when the manuscripts turn out not to be publishable and the investors look to collect on their CDSs, the counterparties will have gone BK and the whole literary establishment of the world will start to implode.

(Sorry . . . been reading too many books on the housing bubble and its collapse.)

--Ken

CatSlave said:

This is what B&T told me:

We are not printing books for Publish America.

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Oh?

JulieB said:

Oh?

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Yes'm.
Quote, unquote.

No further explanation offered.

Really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Is it possible that when B&T heard about PA's lawsuit with LSI, they dropped them like hot potatoes?

One thing you don't want to do is buy back your rights from PA. If you do, you subsidize them just enough to suck in and harm other writers. It's better to just send a letter according to the specifications in your contract stating that you are not renewing your contract. Then let the PA management sink with the PA ship while they figure out where they're going to get the funds to pay the bills with.

As to the "PA special sales," if PA books aren't being published by PA, by LSI, or by Baker and Taylor, then just what is PA planning on doing with the money they receive for books they can't produce? Could they be planning on paying salaries in arrears starting with management?

Okay, I've got a question here. I'm looking at this the way I would look at it if I was an author getting an offer like that. First of all, it does sound like they're getting more and more desperate. Second, offering to give you four free books if you buy two and giving free shipping (which we know they were making a huge profit from)? If they're desperate, certainly this must be a profitable offer, right? Why would they be making it if they were losing money on it? I know a lot of stores will make sales offers in which they lose money, but they're banking on other factors, such as the person will buy something other than the sale product while in the store (not going to happen with PA) or that the person will be happy with the experience and come back for more (potentially possible).

I guess I'm just looking at this and thinking a) it's just a really stupid move and they're losing a lot of money, or b) this is outright proof that they're vastly overcharging for the books in the first place if they can make an offer like this and still make money from it. Or is there a catch in there somewhere I don't know about.

As for the cars and stuff...I'm hoping you're right and PA has screwed itself over so badly it's going to be going out of business soon (it certainly sounds more and more like a possibility, especially since what's his name left), but could it be a spring break issue as well? Honest question here. I've heard a lot of their workers are college students, so could it be that they're out of town? Sincerely hoping otherwise.

kaitie said:

...could it be a spring break issue as well? Honest question here. I've heard a lot of their workers are college students, so could it be that they're out of town? Sincerely hoping otherwise.

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Not a chance in hell.

I mean college students getting a "spring break" from PA.

Let's break it down. You purchase two of your books at 25% off (mine have a retail price of $24.95). I don't want to get out a calculator, so I'm rounding down to $24. Twenty-five percent off would be $6.00 off, for a price of $18 per book, times two books equals $36. I have to pay shipping on the two books at $3.95 (or was it $4.95) per book. Times that by two (I'm rounding up here, just so I don't have to get the calculator again), that would be $4.00 per book, times two, for a total of $8.00. So, $36 plus $8 equals $42 for six books, making the cost per book $7. It costs PA somewhere between $3 and $4 to print a book (I think that's correct, it might be closer to the $3 mark). So, PA will make between $3 and $4 per book. Assuming the authors think this is such a great deal and they decide to order a lot of books -- let's say 100. That's $300-$400 in PA's pocket. They are not losing money on the deal.

Note: the free books don't show in your cart, but the Spring6 coupon automatically triggers their printing and shipping!

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This part was interesting to me, as the author purchasing their books will have no record/receipt to show that they were supposed to get the free books, other than the e-mail offer, which doesn't prove anything except that PA sent them an e-mail declaring the offer. Why not give the author a real receipt with the specifications stated clearly? Oh, that's right, this is PA.

They put out 25 books last week. If Lightning Source and Baker and Taylor didn't print them and they've closed their printing plant, then they must be using a local printer capable of doing hardcovers for they issued two. I expect Frederick must have printing companies capable of producing bound books.

We all know their business model is to sell to the author and two of last week's issue were hardcover with, what appears, amateur illustrations. One 18 pages and the other 20 pages, both for $24.95. It looks like these two books, with hardcovers and extremely high price, were customed designed for the authors to buy, and never meant for bookstore competition, nor for that matter, are any of their books meant for bookstore competition.

I can see by using an off site printer, but local, they could reduce in-house staff and use what they've got left to concentrate on sloppy bookkeeping and sporadic order filling.

kaitie said:

I guess I'm just looking at this and thinking a) it's just a really stupid move and they're losing a lot of money, or b) this is outright proof that they're vastly overcharging for the books in the first place if they can make an offer like this and still make money from it. Or is there a catch in there somewhere I don't know about.

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merrihiatt said:

Let's break it down. You purchase two of your books at 25% off (mine have a retail price of $24.95). I don't want to get out a calculator, so I'm rounding down to $24. Twenty-five percent off would be $6.00 off, for a price of $18 per book, times two books equals $36. I have to pay shipping on the two books at $3.95 (or was it $4.95) per book. Times that by two (I'm rounding up here, just so I don't have to get the calculator again), that would be $4.00 per book, times two, for a total of $8.00. So, $36 plus $8 equals $42 for six books, making the cost per book $7. It costs PA somewhere between $3 and $4 to print a book (I think that's correct, it might be closer to the $3 mark). So, PA will make between $3 and $4 per book. Assuming the authors think this is such a great deal and they decide to order a lot of books -- let's say 100. That's $300-$400 in PA's pocket. They are not losing money on the deal.

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The offer says that they have to order a minimum of eight, not two. So you pay for eight books, if I'm reading that right. I don't know if that would adjust your calculations or not. Do you get free books for every two you order, or just the first two?

Don Davidson said:

Would you pay $300 for a lottery ticket that is probably worthless? It's a free country, and everyone can do as they like, but my point was that I think paying PA $300, or buying $600 worth of books, is probably a mistake when the rights to that book are likely worthless (plus, you get the rights back anyway by just waiting out the 7 years)

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I know that was your point, and I agree. I would personally advise people to write something else and/or attempt to get the rights back without paying. The argument that $300 is a lot to pay for a potentially worthless book is an extremely valid one.

What I'm saying is that I don't like telling people that they can't/shouldn't offer to buy back their rights because in doing so they'll be hurting other writers and supporting a bad company.

The implication to such a statement* is that they are obligated to care and obligated to spend resources, time and energy fighting a company simply because they happened to be sucked in by them - and if they don't, they should feel bad because they're hurting future writers. They aren't, and they shouldn't. We are all free to pick our battles.



*Again, this is a general observation, not aimed at you or anyone in particular.

Sevvy said:

The offer says that they have to order a minimum of eight, not two. So you pay for eight books, if I'm reading that right. I don't know if that would adjust your calculations or not. Do you get free books for every two you order, or just the first two?

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Based on the example, you get 4 extra for every 2 you buy, minimum of 8 to be bought. The example says if you buy 10, you get 20 free.

So is someone buys 8 at the 25% discount, they'd receive 24. If the regular price was $24.95, 8 at a 25% discount = $149.70, + $31.92 for shipping ($3.99 * 8), for a total cost of $181.62.

If we assume a printing cost of $3 and a shipping cost of $1 per book, that's $96 it costs PA to print and ship 24 books. That's an $85.62 profit to PA.

At least in this scenario, authors could sell their books at a significant discount off the cover price and still make a profit. That $181.62 divided by 24 = $7.57 per book, and if someone sold them for,say, $10 each, they'd earn $2.43.

Okay, I misread the email to mean that the entire shipping was free, not just that shipping on the books themselves was free. It probably still works in their favor that way, but I thought they were actually eating the shipping fee entirely.

narcolepticgi said:

thought I might brighten up your day.

cut/pasted from my mail box


Dear Author:

Weekend only. One-time only. Because Spring arrives this weekend.

Buy two books, get SIX!
That's FOUR books for FREE!​

Buy two (2) books, and we will ship SIX (6) books to you. Four (4) of those are FREE, our Welcome Spring Gift to you. Plus we will ship the FREE books to you for FREE.
*Oh, and did we mention the 25 pct discount?

Go to www.publishamerica.net, find your book, click on it, then add to cart, indicate quantity, and use this coupon: Spring6. Then click Recalculate and finish the transaction. Minimum order volume is 8 copies.
Note: the free books don't show in your cart, but the Spring6 coupon automatically triggers their printing and shipping!

Example: if you order ten copies, we will print thirty, give you 25 pct discount on the first ten, and 100 pct discount on the other twenty; that's 20 books for FREE. Plus we'll ship those free books to you for free!
​

Be very quick. Offer expires Sunday night. Hardcovers and fullcolor books are excluded.

Thank you,
PublishAmerica Author Support Team

Click to expand...

This one needs dissecting.

You can order no fewer than 8 books, and you'll receive 24. So minimum order is 24 books.

Book price is for 8 books at 25% off, or cover price of 6 books.

Shipping price is $3.99 times 8, aka $32.

So if your cover price is $25, you pay $150 plus $32, or $182 for 24 books, shipped to you--$7.58 per copy. If your cover price is $30, it jumps to $212, or $8.83 per copy. Not astronomical, but still more than you'd pay on Lulu. Here's hoping Baker and Taylor will do the printing, because they at least should be able to fulfill the orders in less than three months.

Baker and Taylor doesn't print books. They are a wholesaler. They DO have a printing arm, Textstream, just as Ingram had LS, that the PA press release mentioned would be doing the actual printing. So to say that B&T isn't printing the books is not exactly a lie.

I think someone is checking directly with TextStream to see if they are printing PA books.