The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

DreamWeaver

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Here's some interesting information which may shed some light on another potential reason why those PA books have become hard to impossible to order online from Amazon, Barnes & Noble and Borders since the switch to Baker & Taylor:

http://www.newselfpublishing.com/blog/#TextStream

Evidently some of the problem may have to do with the intricacies of virtual stocking and how to carry as "in stock" something that doesn't actually exist until after it's ordered, and that also doesn't deplete when it's ordered.

Don't know if this is still a problem. However, I do know that on our ordering system, Ingram shows their Lightning Source-printed POD book as having 100 copies in stock, when in reality there aren't any. We use the exactly-100-in-stock-at-Ingram's-warehouse as a danger signal to double check a book's return and discount status before we order it. I'm guessing the 100-in-stock number is to keep online stores from automatically assuming stock has been depleted if there are multiple orders. Ingram used to list 2 copies in stock.
 
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Kenneth K

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This in my inbox (actually spam filter) yesterday: Can someone please tell me what this means (I mean, besides the obvious $0 to me bit. I get that). If Amazon and BN offer my book for $5 and PA offers it for $28, where will people go to buy? Hmm.... And so I get zero? Unless they can recover it? Eh?


PublishAmerica Feb. 2010 Royalty Statement; See Important Notice At Bottom
Royalty statement period: August 1, 2009 through January 31, 2010

Your book sold no copies during this past sales period.



Author: Kenneth Kirsch

Title: Demon Alcohol and the Monstermen

ISBN: 1606720759

Retail Discount 0%

Returned Books 0

Quantity 0

Royalty % 8

Sales Price $0.00

Total Amount of Royalties Payable: $0.00



Frequently Asked Royalty Statement Questions:


What Is Sales Price: this is the net amount that PublishAmerica received for your book; your royalty is based on this amount, as per Par. 3 of your contract.

What Happened To Books Sold Last Month: all books bought directly from PublishAmerica are included in this statement; books sold through vendors, incl. Amazon, may not yet be included. PA pays royalties on sales proceeds that it has received. Vendors, however, have up to 90 days or longer to pay PA. Thus, PA may not have received payments yet for books sold by some retailers and online vendors. PA will include royalties for those sales on the next royalty statement. Additionally, some vendors have reneged on their payment obligations. PA will account for those sales after payments are received.
What Are My Royalty Cut-off Dates: January 31 and July 31; we forward our semi-annual statements at the end of February and August.

Where Are The Royalties On Copies Of My Own Book That I Bought: authors are not paid royalties on books that they purchase themselves, per your contract, unless we ran a special promotion that indicated otherwise.

Who Do I Contact For Questions About My Statement: email your query to [email protected]; we will make every attempt to fully answer your question within seven business days.



IMPORTANT NOTICE:

In this statement, PublishAmerica has accounted for all sales proceeds of your book which it has received during the last royalty period (August 1, 2009 to January 31, 2010). This includes all sales made directly by PublishAmerica during that period because PublishAmerica is paid for those sales up front. Some sales made by retailers and online vendors are not included on this statement. Vendors often have up to 90 days or longer to pay for copies of PublishAmerica's books. To the extent PublishAmerica has not received payments for books sold by retailers and online vendors during the last royalty period, those sales are not accounted for on the enclosed statement. PublishAmerica will include royalties for those sales on the next royalty statement after the proceeds are received.

Additionally, some vendors have reneged on their payment obligations. Therefore some authors may find excluded from their royalty statement sales that they had expected to find included, e.g. sales from bookstore events that they attended, or other bookstore related sales. PublishAmerica has initiated court proceedings to recover these payments. PublishAmerica will account for the missing sales after the missing payments are received.
 

ChristineR

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Hi Kenneth.

PublishAmerica Feb. 2010 Royalty Statement; See Important Notice At Bottom
Royalty statement period: August 1, 2009 through January 31, 2010

Your book sold no copies during this past sales period.

Books you bought yourself at a discount don't count in PA land.



Author: Kenneth Kirsch

Title: Demon Alcohol and the Monstermen

ISBN: 1606720759

Retail Discount 0%

Returned Books 0

Quantity 0

Royalty % 8

Sales Price $0.00

Total Amount of Royalties Payable: $0.00

Normally when Borders or B & N or Amazon buys a books, they pay from 40 to 60% of the cover price, resell at the cover price, and keep the difference. PA discounts ranges from nothing to very little. In any case, you're not showing any books, so the discount PA would have offered may not be shown.

Almost all legitimate publishers pay the author royalties as a percentage of cover price, not the price the bookstore pays. Bookstores often negotiate lower prices for books they pay by the crate, and this guarantees the author always gets a fair share. Your 8% is really more like 4% when compared to most publishers. However PA offers crummy discounts, so it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.


Frequently Asked Royalty Statement Questions:


What Is Sales Price: this is the net amount that PublishAmerica received for your book; your royalty is based on this amount, as per Par. 3 of your contract.

What Happened To Books Sold Last Month: all books bought directly from PublishAmerica are included in this statement; books sold through vendors, incl. Amazon, may not yet be included. PA pays royalties on sales proceeds that it has received. Vendors, however, have up to 90 days or longer to pay PA. Thus, PA may not have received payments yet for books sold by some retailers and online vendors. PA will include royalties for those sales on the next royalty statement. Additionally, some vendors have reneged on their payment obligations. PA will account for those sales after payments are received.

This is probably not true. Most PA books are special ordered, and the customer pays in advance, the book is printed, and the customer gets it.

What Are My Royalty Cut-off Dates: January 31 and July 31; we forward our semi-annual statements at the end of February and August.

Books sold after January 31 are not included in the February check.

Where Are The Royalties On Copies Of My Own Book That I Bought: authors are not paid royalties on books that they purchase themselves, per your contract, unless we ran a special promotion that indicated otherwise.

This is semi-normal, because you get a discount on your own books. On the other hand, commercial publishers sell their books in bookstores, not to the authors, so the number of copies the author buys for his friends will be insignificant.

Who Do I Contact For Questions About My Statement: email your query to [email protected]; we will make every attempt to fully answer your question within seven business days.

They never answer their e-mail.


IMPORTANT NOTICE:

In this statement, PublishAmerica has accounted for all sales proceeds of your book which it has received during the last royalty period (August 1, 2009 to January 31, 2010). This includes all sales made directly by PublishAmerica during that period because PublishAmerica is paid for those sales up front. Some sales made by retailers and online vendors are not included on this statement. Vendors often have up to 90 days or longer to pay for copies of PublishAmerica's books. To the extent PublishAmerica has not received payments for books sold by retailers and online vendors during the last royalty period, those sales are not accounted for on the enclosed statement. PublishAmerica will include royalties for those sales on the next royalty statement after the proceeds are received.

Additionally, some vendors have reneged on their payment obligations. Therefore some authors may find excluded from their royalty statement sales that they had expected to find included, e.g. sales from bookstore events that they attended, or other bookstore related sales. PublishAmerica has initiated court proceedings to recover these payments. PublishAmerica will account for the missing sales after the missing payments are received.

To understand this, you really have to follow the PA lawsuit. PA decided their printer and distributor, Lightning Source International, was cheating them. Bookstores don't deal with PA; they deal with Ingrams, LSI's parent company. PA decided Ingrams was printing out new copies of books that had already sold, and was returning them.

When a bookstore buys a book, they pay Ingrams, who forwards it to LSI, who prints it, and sends it to Ingrams to be packed with the non-print-on-demand books. Ingrams then subtracts the cost of the actual printing plus $2, and sends the balance to PA.

When PA is itself the bookstore, they pay Ingrams the printing fee, get a box of books from Ingrams, repackage them, send them to the shopper, and collect the money from the shopper.

So PA stopped paying Ingrams. Ingrams then confiscated some of the money that bookstores had sent to it for PA books. PA then stopped paying royalties to its writers, and sued LSI.

Personally, I think PA is wrong. Tons of small presses use LSI as their printer and distributor. The only way PA could be right would be if LSI's books don't match PA's books. And PA has a terrible reputation when it comes to bookkeeping.
 

Cyia

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The really horrible thought in the PA/LSI thing is that they're most likely still accepting new MS everyday when they have no means in place to print the books - unless they're using their own printer in the interim.

And all those people who ordered hardbacks and are holding out hope that they'll get them in the next week or so because it's what they were promised... where do they think the books are going to come from if the printer who prints them is no longer working with PA?
 

Kenneth K

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Good God! I knew PA was a scam from the beginning. But I wanted to get my book out there because I really thought it could help people deal with alcoholism in their families. But, as enlightened as I thought I was, I never thought for a second that something like this could happen. I have 2 more years left on my contract, after which I'm just going to post my book online for free. I may as well. I'm not getting paid in either case anyway. LSI must have some serious stones to go out there and essentially cheat the cheater. Wow....
 

ChristineR

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I doubt if LSI was cheating them. Like I say, dozens (if not hundreds) of small presses use LSI without any problem. And most bookstores use the parent company, Ingrams. Plus if LSI was actually "returning" books that had actually sold, the bookstores would not have records of the return. They would need a bookstore to collude with them. Most bookstores sell only a handful of PA books a year, so it would be pointless. Most bookstores don't even have any POD books on their shelves. There are some specialty POD books that do almost all their business in special orders, which would not be returnable. Others sell mostly online to their specialized audience. PA books are of course mostly sold to their authors and friends. LSI might theoretically have collusion with Amazon or the online branch of one of the big chains, and they might theoretically be cheating other publishers besides PA. But it would be extremely stupid, and put the whole business at risk. Small publishers have options besides LSI.
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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I wonder if this is a matter of PA trying to bully someone bigger than them. That never ends well.
 

DreamWeaver

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Educated guess as to returns:

1. The books ordered one at a time by family and friends are probably almost never returned.

2. The vast majority of returned books come from author signings. Let's say the average bookstore order for a signing is 20 returnable books. Some will order more, some less, but most aren't crazy enough to go for a huge order--and if they did, step 4 will yield even worse results.

3. Average sales at a vanity or self-published author signing: 3 or 4. But every once in a while--maybe every 10th event--the author's personality & selling ability is such that they sell 12 or even 15. (I'm talking basic bookstore author signings, not author lectures where they sell their book as part of the program or as an adjunct to their presentation.) So let's make the average 5 books.

4. Average return for a 20 book order: 15 books. No wonder PA is crying excessive returns--but it's their own fault for putting out a basically unsellable product. (Though, to be fair, signings for commercially published authors don't always go well, either. But not so routinely, and of course they have actual bookstore sales to offset any bump in returns from a poorly attended signing.)

I don't for a minute believe LSI is padding returns to PA, other than they have admitted returning PA books that they didn't necessarily print. Not sure how you tell who printed what when they all come back to Ingram (the wholesaler) and all have the same ISBN. One of those little gotchas of POD that needs to be ironed out, perhaps?

I do believe that LSI has had trouble getting PA to pay its bills, which is what LSI claims in the countersuit.

ETA: I'm sticking with my prediction that this will be settled out of court and the big losers will be the PA authors, whose unpaid royalties will probably remain MIA as part of the undisclosed settlement.
 
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M.R.J. Le Blanc

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This is what a PA author I've been chatting with (who's a lovely woman) said to me. Out of respect, I'm not posting her username since she's afraid of getting kicked off the PA boards if I do, but here's what I can share. She's read the Google docs about the lawsuits:

PA says they can not pay us because they did not get paid. But that is not what this lawsuit is about.

First, they claim not all books were returnable -- that will be news to a lot of us who were led to believe they were.

Second, PA claims they paid $2.00 shipping for each book returned although they looked new instead of being slightly damaged like they should have. They want that money back.

Third, PA is claiming instead of being paid full value of books sold, LS claimed bogus returns for which PA paid the shipping charge of $2.00 each.

Total amount of damages claimed: $809,000.00.

However, none of this explains why we did not get paid. PA is not claiming back amounts due from actual sales, only full payment for books they suspect were actually sold and then claimed to be returns. Therefore, if they got paid for the other sales, why didn't we?

Instead. in the counter suit LS claims it is PA who withheld payment for returns.

So, where did all the money go?

This lawsuit could take years to settle. PA is actually claiming fraud and it is a hard case to win unless they have a lot more than just a few books that look new. By the way, once a lawsuit is filed, it becomes public property.
 

darkprincealain

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I don't for a minute believe LSI is padding returns to PA, other than they have admitted returning PA books that they didn't necessarily print. Not sure how you tell who printed what when they all come back to Ingram (the wholesaler) and all have the same ISBN.

This is the sticking point, I think. The facts being what they are, LSI didn't pad returns, but the improbability arises of telling who printed which book fairly easily out of this scenario. PA is just going to have to deal with a stinky situation. Which is kind of ironic, given they're usually the ones setting up the stinky situation, to begin with.
 
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DreamWeaver

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I suspect PA might be very much regretting burning their bridges with LSI, as the B&T POD operation seems to be having problems that are preventing book availability on-line and causing lots of worry and dissension in the ranks. If this affects PA's ability to sell authors their own books, the basic PA money-making scheme will grind to a halt quickly...and their losses could darf (MockPA-ese for 'dwarf') the amount they're suing LSI for.

It would be funny if the PA authors weren't getting shafted, as usual.
 

Gillhoughly

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Returned books are going to look new, especially if they've been languishing on shelves for ages. "Returned" doesn't mean the books were bought by a store customer who changed her mind once she got the book home. To me it means books that did not sell in the first place.

I've bought remaindered titles that are absolutely new-looking. I'm reading one right now, straight from a sale table. The spine is tight and creaks a bit when I open it and it has that delicious "new book" scent.

Accusing LSI of printing new books to return makes no sense. I should think it would cost LSI more to print new books than returning unsold ones.

I think PA, ever the scammer, is paranoid about being scammed themselves and are accusing LSI of something they would also do themselves.

I also think that PA's outstandingly sloppy bookkeeping has a part in this. If they fire everyone in accounting every six weeks, the same as their "editing/acqusitions" department, then it would be strange indeed for their books to NOT be in a shambles.
 

Little1

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Third, PA is claiming instead of being paid full value of books sold, LS claimed bogus returns for which PA paid the shipping charge of $2.00 each.

Total amount of damages claimed: $809,000.00.

However, none of this explains why we did not get paid. PA is not claiming back amounts due from actual sales, only full payment for books they suspect were actually sold and then claimed to be returns. Therefore, if they got paid for the other sales, why didn't we?
Instead. in the counter suit LS claims it is PA who withheld payment for returns.

So, where did all the money go?


That is a good question. And she is right. They are NOT suing them to get the money from the SALE of the books but the cost of the RETURN of the books AFTER being sold. Perhaps this will be the event that brings PA to national attention and gets the IRS or someone to look into them.
 
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ChristineR

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The two dollars is not just a shipping fee--it's the fee Ingrams gets for the trouble of sending its books out to stores (as opposed to shipping a single big box to PA for them to sort and repack), and in the case of returns, it's the fee for accepting boxes of books from different publishers from a single bookstore, sorting them out, crediting the bookstore with the cost of the books, and passing that bill onto the appropriate publishers. This is basically why bookstores deal with Ingrams or Baker and Taylor instead of the publishers directly. It also might explain why LSI printed books they already had a copy of. It might just be easier than sorting through all the books to pick out the ones that are supposed to go back to PA, checking them to see if they're in good condition, etc., etc.
 

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Publish America (merged into NEPAT thread)

just recieved this email from PA after i requested that my contract be terminated.
Do not address us in such a tone, and please actually consult an
attorney prior to sending us such nonsense. We will consider your
request, but first we would like to know how you think we are in
breach of the contract. Also, your stateme...nt that your book is "not
available anywhere else" is simply, plainly false, as you know.
What a load of SHITSee More
 

ResearchGuy

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. . . I have 2 more years left on my contract, after which I'm just going to post my book online for free. . .
Be sure to provide written notice (according to contract terms) that you want the contract terminated at the end of the 7 years (give notice in advance). And consider scribd.com as a e-book publishing option. It worked well for Kemble Scott (Scott James).

--Ken
 

Uncarved

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You poor writer.
I was once where you are....
there there... let me get the doll and you tell us all about where the bad (almost said publisher) printer touched you.... we will listen, nod, and understand.
 

dpaterso

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merrihiatt

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Welcome, Areallia! :welcome:

I'm sorry to hear that you received a snarky response letter, though not surprised. I'm glad that you posted it here so would-be PA authors can see how PA treats their authors AFTER they sign the contract or if they ask questions that PA doesn't like.
 

DreamWeaver

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Accusing LSI of printing new books to return makes no sense. I should think it would cost LSI more to print new books than returning unsold ones.
In the countersuit, LSI says they *did* print new books. That sort of boggled my mind. On the other hand, one has to wonder--and I'm sure Ingram does--why a publisher wouldn't want brand new books. The logical reason to ask for physical returns would be resale. Questions of accounting would be settled by going over invoices, bookstore records, sales reports, and other paperwork. Because, as we've both noted before, returns often look brand new, so that's not a reliable indicator.

As to why LSI printed new books? All I can guess is, for whatever reason it is cheaper for them. [ETA: Complete & total speculation removed, but ChristineR's idea above sounds very reasonable.] AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAQ`````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

Sorry, cat helping with typing.

I still think it will be settled out of court and these things will all remain a mystery <G>. As will the question of what will happen to the unpaid PA royalties :(.
 
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ChristineR

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That is a good question. And she is right. They are NOT suing them to get the money from the SALE of the books but the cost of the RETURN of the books AFTER being sold. Perhaps this will be the event that brings PA to national attention and gets the IRS or someone to look into them.

However, none of this explains why we did not get paid. PA is not claiming back amounts due from actual sales, only full payment for books they suspect were actually sold and then claimed to be returns. Therefore, if they got paid for the other sales, why didn't we?

Missed this before. Actually, I think what happened is that PA stopped paying their bills, claiming LSI had overcharged them for returns. LSI charges PA for new books printed, and they charge them for any books returned or destroyed by LSI. LSI also credits the PA account for any books actually sold to bookstores, but I would suspect that the net monthly statement from LSI is a bill for books sold in the PA bookstore.

In any case, LSI didn't give PA all the money they were paid by bookstores, because PA owed them that money. This appears to be the excuse for not paying authors. But the anonymous PA victim is right--the only money in dispute is not author royalties on sold books. If anything, the extra returns (if they exist) would decrease royalty checks, saving PA money out of their royalty budget.
 

Gillhoughly

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Areallia--welcome to AW!!! :welcome:

Do not address us in such a tone, and please actually consult an
attorney prior to sending us such nonsense. We will consider your
request, but first we would like to know how you think we are in
breach of the contract. Also, your stateme...nt that your book is "not
available anywhere else" is simply, plainly false, as you know.
What a load of SHITSee More

No need to see more, we all recognize the abusive tone and wholly unprofessional manner of PA's very own InfoMonster! This is the batshit insane person who wrote you. The first job she got after being sent home to her parents after that college snafu was at PA and she's been there ever since. Certainly a match made in hell for all concerned.

That nasty mail is no reflection on you. She uses bullying, abuse, lies, anything but a professional manner to intimidate writers into backing down and giving up.

Ignore it.

Send a certified letter to Larry Clopper at PA. State that you're not able to promote your book and unable to buy copies for yourself, and request to be released from your contract since it's not going to make anyone any money. Keep it simple and short. Don't threaten legal action. They get that all the time and it doesn't impress them.

You may have to send several of these to get action. They may let you go just to stop the annoyance.

Above all IGNORE the InfoMonster's baiting, and be assured that whatever name is signed to any mail you get, SHE is the one who wrote it. No email leaves PA without her approval.
 

darkprincealain

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:welcome: Welcome Areallia!

I second what Gill said above.

How unprofessional of an email. But Miranda is not known for the utmost of integrity.