The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

PVish

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Where does it give this option? I admit I only skim their emails these days, but after the one about donating to bookstores, I wondered why they weren't just offering authors a buy 1, get 1 free deal instead. I assumed they had a motive behind these "donations", such as them being tax write-offs. . . .

Perhaps PA can then (ahem) *honestly* say, "We have shipped X number of books to X number of bookstores across the fruited plain from sea to shining sea."
 

ChristineR

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Perhaps PA can then (ahem) *honestly* say, "We have shipped X number of books to X number of bookstores across the fruited plain from sea to shining sea."

They already have that line about "hundreds of books a day" being sold to bookstores. Of course if you do the math, it works out to somewhere between 15 to 82 copies per title being sold through bookstores. Pretty much all of these have to be special orders, or somebody who's begged the manager to stick a copy on the "Local Authors" rack.
 

Gillhoughly

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Is there any mention on the PA site--or any site for that matter--of the actual number of copies they've printed/sold?

Most businesses keep an inventory, and since PA is Print On Demand they should be keeping tight track of every copy and every penny they rake in from whatever source, be it Amazon sales or sales to their own writers.

I'm sure the actual numbers are interesting.

If, in the last ten years, they printed/sold a million copies, then that works out to 25 books per writer.

(I'm figuring 40K writers and not including those who have more than one title with PA.)

Even doubling that to 2 million books printed/sold to anyone, including the writer, means only 50 sales per title.

Double it again to 4 million for 100 books each? That's not enough to fulfill those dreams of fame and fortune that PA spouts.

If each of my 20+ titles sold only 100 copies I'd have to get a real job and consider myself a complete failure as a writer.

But in this case it is PublishAmerica that is a complete failure as a "publisher".

Dear PA Lurkers: How many books have you actually sold since you signed on with them?


Do not count the ones you bought yourself.

Of course, you can try asking this question on the PA forums and see how fast it gets moved or you get banned.

The last thing PA wants its writers victims to know is how few books actually sell.
 

Eirin

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PA used to have a slogan: "We are approaching one million books sold" or something similar. They spouted that for years, as I recall.
 

ChristineR

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The Washington Post article, which is from 2005, says a million sales, 11,000 total authors, and 4800 books that year. It's not clear if 11,000 authors means 11,000 books or only counts multiple authors once.

Their Facts and Figures page says 40,000 authors, which is very roughly 11,000 plus 5000 a year for four or five more years.

Their new releases are also consistent with 4000 to 5000 books a year. They claim they sell a book every 16 seconds, which works out to almost two million a year. However I suspect this means every second of the workday, which is 450,000 a year and more in line with the Washington Post article.

This works out to somewhere around 75 to 100 copies for each book--half a million copies of 5000 books every year.
 

Gillhoughly

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Yikes-- I doubt those numbers will get anyone on a slot on Oprah!

Dear PA Lurkers, you can forget movie deals, too.

Those tend to go to books that are on the NYTimes bestseller list, not the PA bestselling list.
 

LostInWonderland

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They claim they sell a book every 16 seconds

Lines like these are what make PA so misleading. I remember when I first signed with them, statements like this sounded very impressive to me. Little did I know that the majority of books are sold to the authors themselves. I'd be curious to know how many books have been sold to non-PA authors...you know, actual readers? :tongue How many people outside the PA "family" have bought and read PA books? Even including friends and family of authors, my guess would be the percentage is pretty low.

Also, I remember the whole "nearing the million book sales" bit on their website. I remember even at the time, when I still had an ounce of faith in PA, I was unimpressed. I guess they didn't count on their authors being able to do the math. There were 11,000 authors at the time...that's not even 100 book sales each. Again not to mention that the majority of book sales were to the authors themselves, and their friends/family. It's all so very, very sad.
 

LostInWonderland

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Yikes-- I doubt those numbers will get anyone on a slot on Oprah!

Dear PA Lurkers, you can forget movie deals, too.

Those tend to go to books that are on the NYTimes bestseller list, not the PA bestselling list.

Sorry for the double post, but I've been wondering about the so-called "movie deals" posted on the PA homepage for awhile now. I admit I have never followed up on any of the books which supposedly got movie deals, but I'm wondering if any of these movies actually happened. Is this yet another ploy? I can't even imagine how a PA author would get to the point of even having a meeting to discuss a movie deal. Does anyone have any insight on this?

I often wonder if PA's announcements are simply their own spin on things. For example, I recall a fellow author telling me my book would make a good Lifetime movie. Had I turned around and mentioned that to PA, would they have posted on their homepage that I was "in talks about a possible movie deal"? Technically, I guess it wouldn't have been a lie :tongue
 

circlexranch

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Another of their claims is that they paid out a million in royalties between 2000 and 2006. Again, on the surface, that sounds impressive, but doing the math:

1,000,000 divided by six years = $166,666 (love the number pattern)

$166,666/35,000 happy (damnit) authors = $4.76 per author per year

Heck, let's use the 11,000 author number:

$166,666/11,000 = $15.00 in royalties per author per year

Now, let's take that million number again . . .

and look at PA's cut.

$1,000,000 is 8% of $12,500,000, meaning PA got to keep $11.5 million or about $1.9 million. This does NOT include sales to authors which is their primary income stream.

Dear PA Lurkers: Do the math. The odds are stacked in favor of the house. You will not be the one to hit the lottery.
 

Gillhoughly

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I did a quickie check and found an indie film mentioned with the writer playing an extra in it.

A low budget indie is NOT Hollywood A-list. Or even D-List.

I've had "film deals," only it is called an "option." That's when someone puts a bit of money down to secure the right to option your book for a movie. There is always an expiration date. It gives them a window of opportunity to sell the idea to a production company or anyone else with real money to make a film.

The most I've gotten on a 1-year option was 50.00, the least was 1.00. Nothing came of any of them, so I kept writing.

PA's Up In Lights page is appallingly convincing. Write a book and Queen Elizabeth will send you a note! Maybe the writer sent a copy of the book to her and one of her staff members sent back a thank you note for it. It's only being polite, but doesn't mean the queen actually read it!

And this was just silly: "New York Times Requests PA Book for Review."

Dear PA lurkers, the Times should not *have* to request any book for review, nor should other major reviewing venues.

Your publisher is supposed to send them copies of your work as a matter of course.

It should also NOT be big news worthy of special announcement on any legit publishing site. Sending a book the the Times for review is just part of the normal publishing process.

Also appalling is the "PA writers who got Published," which is a strange title for a page. None of my publishers have a "St. Martin's writers or Penguins writers who got Published" up on their sites. One can assume that if you sold them a book that it was indeed published.

So the other interpretation is PA writers who went on to sell books to real commercial publishing houses.

But no. It's about PA writers that PA put into print.

*sigh*

Also annoying is the repetitive mention of PA in every single announcement. Contrast that with the opening page for Penguin Publishing.

They don't bother with that kind of self-promotion. They're too busy promoting the books themselves, not themselves as publisher.

One heart breaker is the writer with this quote, "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When I tried to find an agent over the summer and received my first 8 rejections shortly thereafter, I sincerely thought that my writing sucked,"

Okay, darlin', a mere 8 rejections is just getting warmed up.

Try 25 rejections over a 2-year period. And my writing DID suck. When the book came back I re-wrote it, got feedback, and re-wrote again until it got to the point where a commercial publisher wanted to pay me real money for them. That's what writers DO.

Try the now legendary Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, rejected 121 times and still the rejection record holder for a bestseller.

Had PA been around back then, and had the writer gone to them in the mistaken belief that they're a legit commercial publisher, we'd have NEVER have heard of that book.

Ugh. I should never read this stuff before coffee. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

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ChristineR

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There are many, many do-it-yourself movie production companies which dream of finding the perfect script and shooting the next Blair Witch or whatever. The thing that keeps most of them from succeeding is funding. Even most of those that do find the funding most never get much distribution for the movies they make, which usually turn out not to be as good as Blair Witch after all.

What often happens is that the guy who owns a nominal production company is friends with the guy who has a book, and that the production company options the right to film the book for a nominal fee. It's a long way from being attached to anyone who actually has the skills to make a film, and a longer way from being attached to anyone who actually has the money to make a film.
 

Don Davidson

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How PA books really sell

Dear PA Lurkers: How many books have you actually sold since you signed on with them? Do not count the ones you bought yourself.

How many books have I sold? Let's see--let me calculate that. PA "published" my book in January 2008. So that's almost two years ago--well, about 22 months, actually. And I've received 4 royalty statements during that time. So reviewing those . . . that would be TWO.

That's actually two more copies than I ever thought they would sell. That's because I don't play along with their little scam. I won't buy my own book, nor will I allow them to try to guilt my family and friends into buying it.
 

Gillhoughly

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"I've got a barn, you've got a Victrola. Let's get the gang together and put on a show!"

Stooge 1: Great! Then everyone in the gang has to bring their own costume and makeup, but if they want to make a change to it they have to pay 99.00.

Stooge 2:
Yeah, and instead of sending out notices about the show or buying an ad in the paper, let's have all the players go running around town on their own nickel to promote it! They have to do THEIR part, right?

Stooge 3: Great!! Each night that they perform, let's have them buy their own tickets to get in. We can double the ticket prices, then offer them to the actors for "half" off!

Stooge 1: And if they want a ticket as a keepsake we can put it in a plastic frame and sell it to them for another 19.99 + shipping!!!!

Stooge 2: WHEEEE! We're gonna be rich!!

Stooge 3: But what about the actors doing all the work?

Stooge 1:
F**K EM! I've got a hellocopter to buy!
 

bhall87

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I just got an email from PA offering to donate my book to Walmart.

Guess where your fellow author <removed> is having a book signing tomorrow? In her local Walmart store! She is signing copies of <removed> tomorrow afternoon in Madison, Georgia.
I have to admit my first guess was "a local coffee shop" but I guess Walmart is better. At least people may come over to her and ask her what she's doing.

PublishAmerica will donate your book to Walmart. As many copies as you determine. Imagine shoppers finding your book there!
And like with the book store and library before it, the people in the stock room will go "what the--?" and, being a complete pessimist here, possibly through them in the dumpster.

Our holiday season donation program is wildly successful. Thousands and thousands of books are finding their way to bookstores, churches, and authors' workplaces, for FREE.
Nothing better than receiving a huge box of shoddy books at your place of employment from some employee you may or may not actually know. I'm just amazed that something like this is actually successful (at least in the author's eyes and PA's bank account).

We're not waiting for Walmart to order your book. We're donating it to them, as many copies as you choose. They may put up your book for sale any way they want, highlighting you as a local author.
Glad you're not waiting for them to order it because it will never happen. Now, I've never seen "local authors" highlighted in any Walmart I've ever been to nor do I think my own Walmart, which is pretty footloose and fancy-free, would do something like that because it takes space away from authors who sell--like Dan Brown and that King guy.

Later on in the email, they tell you how to use the code and everything, which their authors should be pretty proficient in by now, and that using the code sets a 20 order minimum then they have another line saying, use this different code if you want fewer books but you only get 30% off instead of 40%.

And you can have the books sent to your local Walmart or to your house, whichever you prefer. What's hilarious is that they sent me two emails saying the same thing only one was attached to their "discontinuing hardcovers" email they sent back in October.
 

ChristineR

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That's funny, because Wal-mart is of course known for their sophisticated computerized reordering system, which keeps track of how many items are on the shelf and sends out custom restocking shipments to each store depending on local preferences. The south gets extra mosquito repellent, the north gets extra mittens, and nobody gets vanity published books.
 

overfiend

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yup..PA will sell books ..your books or my books to Walmart.Problem is they are not selling but donating if you buy.Got a better idea....Publish the same amount at half price with lulu and stand inside walmart and give them for free.Why do i need PA.Ah yes that darn contract to help them get richer.
"Attention Walmart shoppers...desperate author in aisle 6 giving away free copies of his flawed book away."
 
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LostInWonderland

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I have to admit my first guess was "a local coffee shop" but I guess Walmart is better. At least people may come over to her and ask her what she's doing.

To be honest, any time I'm in Walmart and see someone in the aisle with a table full of some random product to sell, I usually avoid eye contact and take a different path to what I want to shop for. Walmart seems like sort of a strange place to do a signing, unless you're a big name (have any well-known authors done a signing in Walmart before?). Their book selection is flimsy at best, and instead of having to appeal only to book buyers, you'd have to try to sell to just any casual shopper, who probably wouldn't want to be bothered.

Just as a side note, when my book was first with PA, I tried sending letters to Walmart (among other stores), not just their corporate office but my local store to see if they'd have any interest in stocking my book. I didn't hear back. I too think Walmart will just dump the donated books. Also, it just occurred to me, in this day and age, I wonder how many stores would just return to sender, without opening the box? I wonder how many unexpected packages arrive at stores in general. Maybe each store has a different policy, but I honestly can't imagine any chain store stocking any product they didn't order themselves.
 

DaveKuzminski

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Now who wants to try to make back what they paid only to be in competition with someone who got the same product for free and is making 100% profit?
 

overfiend

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Maybe each store has a different policy said:
You are right, no store will stock anything they didn't not order.This is a security concern and an accounting concern.Only the distribution office of the company can do that and they have automatic systems with only key people in them able to place orders at their discretion but that too is done with justification.You cannot order 1000 copies of a whatchamacallit to sell on a whim or personal initiation or if someone is donating.You have to go through head office.Believe me, every space in any store is sold so why would they want to put something anywhere for free.They would rather take 10000$ for example from procter and gamble and place a tide stand but organizaing a pr stunt for a book signing of a local author..fishy and i doubt they know people would read a nobody.