The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

I happen to know Charlaine, and yes, she is thrilled they made a TV series of her work, but she had a ton of mystery books out prior to the vamp books that were somehow overlooked by HBO. They're still overlooking them.

They've been overlooking my works for decades. Ditto for most other writers.

Enthusiasm and innocence has a brutal killer: it's called PublishAmerica.

Enthusiasm and innocence has a brutal killer: it's called PublishAmerica.

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This kind of enthusiasm and innocence doesn't need PA to get squashed. Even with an NY publisher the dream of getting a "blockbuster hit like Stephenie Meyer" doesn't have a very good chance of living for more than two minutes.

Perhaps I can get my own Showtime or HBO series like the great Charlaine Harris

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The key word up there is "great".

One reason why the innocents are lead to the slaughter of PA

When you google PA you get this as first entry.

Publish america

www.publishamerica.com Avoid stigma of paying a publisher! We want your book, not your money


Again this is one of the reasons why new writers eyes light up. They have no idea what a scam this company is because the entire google page is filled with their praise and their advertising. Hate to say advertising off the sweat of the other authors they racked over the coals.

Jill Karg said:

When you google PA you get this as first entry.

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True, but when I Googled "PublishAmerica" just now (deliberately ignoring Google's attempt to complete that as "PublishAmerica scam"), the third hit was PA's Wikipedia entry and the fifth was PublishAmerica won't get your book in bookstores.

The sixth is True Stories about PublishAmerica, which is a heartbreaking read. The seventh takes you to AW. All these are on the first page of results.

Doing a Google search for a publisher and going straight to the first entry, disregarding everything else, is like deciding to buy a car and getting one from the first dealership you find (Honest Bob's Used-Car Lot! We're Honest!), without researching or comparing prices.

Googling for the name of PA at least gives neos a chance to see there's something fishy out there, but neos are looking up book publishers, not specifically PA.

By the time they think to check out PA they may have already signed the contract.

If you google "book publishers" you get 3 sponsored links to what I will assume are fee-charging time wasters,
the next is for BookMarket, which can overwhelm with the choices listed,
the next is Hatchett--they like agents,
the next Penguin (finally--a slush pile!)
the next is AuthorHouse with an opening page that says they charge money, so the neos get the idea they are supposed to pay to publish.

After that it's Random House, HarperCollins, and THEN PA, with "Publish a novel today!" and a click leads you to their big, friendly flag-waving, Jesus-praising site that promises to make the whole scary process simple.

People LOVE simple.

The rest of us know better than to trust simple, but others make the mistake of thinking a big business won't *lie* to people just because they are a big business.

And BP ain't really responsible for safety issues on their oil rigs, 'cause they're big and everyone respects safety at all times, it just makes sense!

They see "bestsellers" on the opening page--not getting that those are not the titles on the NYT list, just PA's in house list, which is worthless.

Oh, look, their books get made into movies! ---not seeing that much of it is old information. Nor does it occur to them to check on the IMDB to see if anything came of those small fry deals.

And heck, "Click here to submit your book." Other sites have that well hidden as "submission guidelines" and you have to sub in a certain way or they don't take subs at all. But on PA it's EASY! "Hey, my story is in a file on this computer....okay I'll DO it! I'll just GO for it! and see what happens!"

Then a day later they get the "PA wants to give your book the chance it deserves" line and they're hooked.

They might look up some books, they might read testimonials, not thinking that the existence of the page itself is a tip off that this is a vanity site.

They read PA's weasel-worded FAQ page, which reassures them.

Next thing you know they're announcing the sale of their work on FaceBook.

Jill Karg said:

When you google PA you get this as first entry.

Publish america. . . .

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True, but anyone who spends another three seconds finds these immediately below:

Followed by much more . . .

There is NO excuse other than self-deception to be fooled by PA if one has an Internet connection. Not now.

--Ken

Agreed.
This is why my sympathy level has dropped to almost zero.

In their favor, though, I have noticed that many more PA authors are catching on to the scam very quickly. This is A Good Thing.

Let the diehard PAvidians play Published Author: A Role-Playing Game and leave the real writers to work on improving their craft and their second books.

Let the diehard PAvidians play Published Author: A Role-Playing Game and leave the real writers to work on improving their craft and their second books.

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I think this comes dangerously close to stomping on "respect your fellow writer."

merrihiatt said:

I think this comes dangerously close to stomping on "respect your fellow writer."

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I think CatSlave isn't talking about those who have been kept in the dark about what PA really is, but those who have been shown the evidence and still stubbornly insist that PA is right and those meanies saying bad things about PA are just jealous of their success.

Exactly, but I agree I'm being blunt since my sympathy is dwindling.
I have a LOT of respect for those who stumbled into PA but got up and walked away.

I saw something that made mine well up all over again. One PA victim is not only having a book release party, but she's booked a location AND a caterer. Makes me shudder to think how much money she's going to put out for this event, and how unlikely it is that she'll ever make it back.

I think the budget for any book release party should be no more than 2% of one's advance money.

Of course with PA's 1.00 advance--meh, you know where I'm going with this so I'm walking away.....now.

I feel very sad for that person. It is heart breaking knowing what will happen to this person in a brief couple of months when he/she realizes the scam that is PA.

Well, I hope it is at least one heck of a fun party--be a shame not to get *some* good out of it .

I was thinking well maybe all the people who attend will actually buy books from her, but the problem is that even if they wanted to, getting PA to actually send copies of said books and then pay royalties on them would take darn near a miracle.

ResearchGuy said:

There is NO excuse other than self-deception to be fooled by PA if one has an Internet connection. Not now.

--Ken

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Sorry, but that is too harsh, and not quite true. Gillhoughly's earlier entry has got it exactly right--except for the Facebook part, that is almost exactly my story. I Googled "Christian book publishers" and up popped PA, as either the first entry or one of the first. I went to their web site and it all sounded good, and very legit. I was admittedly very naive about the world of publishing, but the warning signs of scams that I look for weren't there--they didn't ask for money or a credit card number or bank account information or even significant personal information. I just had to send them my book to look at, with a little bit of contact information. It seemed very easy and above-board.

And then of course the letter comes that says they want to publish my book, and the euphoria sets in. By the time the euphoria wore off and they started trying to get my money, I was locked into that 7-year contract.

On the other hand, those who never seem to figure out the scam are much harder to defend. They are the deliberately ignorant--they apparently don't want to know the truth, because the truth is certainly out there if you just look. But I never thought to look (it never occurred to me that I needed to) until too late.

So I refuse to fault those who fall into PA's trap, which is fiendishly clever. But those who never climb out of the trap, or who don't even seem to realize they've been trapped? Yeah, I admit I have trouble drumming up much sympathy for them.

I was on the PAMB 2004-2006. There were a number of retired military, school teachers; one working college professor and a CEO or two among others, some (based on their books I read) were very talented. Some had gone back to PA for second and third books and seemingly thought of themselves as legitimately published, but I think what got them there in the first place was a lack of warning posted on the WEB at that time, and too, PA provided the path of least resistance to getting a book out with no money up front. With all the warnings on the internet about PA, I don't know why they keep drawing new people except for printing a book with no money up front and being dishonest about what happens after the book is released, particularly the implied bookstore placement.

The length of the contract was the main problem for me and others and I'd guess that it won't be long before you see PA asking for money up front for a reduction in the contract length.

Don Davidson said:

Sorry, but that is too harsh, and not quite true. . . . .

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I should have said, "if one has an Internet connection and USES it for even elementary research."

At least one person I have explicitly warned against PA still signed on, apparently in the belief that it would somehow be different for her. I call that self-delusion. I don't think that is a "harsh" assessment. Just realistic.

--Ken

It's just way too hard to battle the "no money upfront" billboard. People may see warning signs about PA, but even if they see them as a self-publishing company, not having to pay upfront still makes PA appealing. When I first signed on, I didn't like the book prices but they didn't seem TOO bad (at the time) and I wasn't out to make a whole lot of sales anyway. So even with all the warnings I saw out there, it still didn't sway me. I wanted to see my book in print and I was unaware of other avenues.

I say if a person is happy with PA, then good for them. If they want to sing PA's praises, they can go right ahead. Some may realize soon that they were taken. Some may never see it because they will be eternally grateful, as someone whose particular needs were met by PA.

This isn't going to sway me from stating how I feel about PA and stating the negative points. But it isn't always stupidity that lands an author with a PA contract. Sometimes it's desperation. Sometimes it's (as in my case) really not all that bad for certain goals. And sometimes yes, it's pure ignorance. But not every PA author is the same even though they're all with the same publisher. It all boils down to the author's choice. I may hate a certain car model and have proof that it's unsafe and cheap. But just because others may purchase that same model doesn't give me the right to go bashing them over the head. Now... when they come to cry on my shoulder, I can gently say, "See? Now let's get you something better." But to constantly stand on my soap box and badmouth the car model and tell people who bought them that they're stupid... that will only make me look bad and probably further the name of the car company I'm against. There are better ways to try and help people see the truth.

Do I feel sorry for those trapped in PA? Sure - I think most of them will wind up disappointed because they didn't have their eyes open wide enough to begin with. But I can't condemn them. Flies are quicker attracted to honey than vinegar - and I think sometimes around here we start smelling like vinegar. I'm not attacking anyone in particular, I just know how I felt when I saw these boards for the first time. I'd rather see sympathy for authors and negativity about PA than negativity against the authors along with PA.

The problem is that they're influencing, inducing, and harming other people while in that honeymoon stage. It has to be countered quickly in order to prevent more casualties.

DaveKuzminski said:

The problem is that they're influencing, inducing, and harming other people while in that honeymoon stage. It has to be countered quickly in order to prevent more casualties.

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Just so. I've seen it myself.

--Ken

DaveKuzminski said:

The problem is that they're influencing, inducing, and harming other people while in that honeymoon stage. It has to be countered quickly in order to prevent more casualties.

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Agreed. I just think there's a way to do it without blaming the author. I think the focus needs to be true information about PA, while warning others and helping authors caught with PA to see the truth... versus calling authors stupid, whether it's in a roundabout way or not.

We can all agree that some authors obviously don't do enough research and/or blatantly ignore warning signs. Easy to call them dumb or point fingers. But having been one of them...I guess if I knew someone was basically calling me stupid, my first reaction would be to defend and not listen. But if I wasn't blamed for something, and informed of truths instead, I would be much more apt to let go of my PA loyalty.

I agree, however, if someone WANTS to sign with PA, even after hearing all the negative information, that is their choice and I won't say negative things about them. We all make choices in our lives and we all have to live with the consequences of those choices, whether they are good or bad.

Does that mean I want a PA author to influence someone to sign with PA? No. I'd rather give someone all the information and let them decide for themself. Better yet, I'd rather have PA be honest and upfront about their business practices, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Wrider, you are essentially correct. And for the most part, I think we do a pretty good job. However, I do consider a couple of categories of folks who are fair game:

1. The cheerleaders who shout down folks with legit questions and complaints about PA. They often treat the complainer like they are ungrateful and stupid for doubting PA.

2. The insufferably pretentious. We haven't seen one of those in a while, but occasionally the writers will get a bit too big for the proverbial britches (such as Author - RPG websites that contain fake interviews "So, Ms. Writer, why do you write? Well, I felt that I had a duty to share my ginormous talent with the unlettered masses. I haven't the time, but I have a duty to my public . . .")

Sorry, those two are going to get my attention.