The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

Don Davidson · Jul 13, 2010

Chris P said:
Ah! The plot thickens! This is not a new attempt by PA then. They just figured nobody was still around who remembered it the last time.

But interesting that they would offer their authors a way to distance themselves from the PA name.

To paraphrase Shakespeare: A scam by any other name . . . .

Chris P · Jul 13, 2010

Don Davidson said:
To paraphrase Shakespeare: A scam by any other name . . . .

It seems the only advantage is that my softcover sells for a new price and doesn't carry the PA name. Everything else stays the same: no distribution, no marketing, no sales to anyone other than me.

Gillhoughly · Jul 13, 2010

Looks like PA is scraping itself off its own boots!

The Stooges figured out that people ARE googling PA, seeing the truth and moving on.

There's nothing out there about "Independence" books that I could find.

This is like that second "The Thing" movie, where the nasty alien morphed into even nastier forms as the plot progressed.

I sense we will require a whole new forum for this 2.0 version of the same old shit.

Such a nice "safe" word, independence, conjuring up visions of determined mavericks making a success against the odds, a glint in their eyes and a sardonic smile on their lips.

The only ones grinning in the end are the Stooges, salivating over the cash that's about to come their way.

JulieB · Jul 13, 2010

Apparently the previous Independence Books imprint was for people who had sold a certain number of books. Their books would be made returnable, as I recall. Search the Old NEPAT for more info.

merrihiatt · Jul 13, 2010

Chris P said:
It seems the only advantage is that my softcover sells for a new price and doesn't carry the PA name. Everything else stays the same: no distribution, no marketing, no sales to anyone other than me.

Spot on!

merrihiatt · Jul 13, 2010

Only five books on PA's New Releases page this week. They must be too busy working on "special offers" to actually publish any books.

AudioGenius · Jul 13, 2010

I know I'm rather new at this, but allow me to give this one a shot.

Dear PAuthor, let's take a serious look at this latest announcement. Can you for a moment imagine ANY legitimate publisher telling one of their authors that it would benefit the author NOT to be associated with them? The bolding in the following quote is mine.

Dear author:

Sometimes a book deserves a new start. This is very true. Your book does deserve a new start ... just not with PAIB

Not labeled in book vendor databases as POD. Yes your book is currently listed as a POD book, PA says so here. It will not take vendors long to see through the new name, it will be soon after the switch (if you take it)
A low list price. Actually the "low" list price is about average for the industry, but at least it's reasonable
A new publisher. Your publisher is telling you need a new one. Seriously, wake up.

Introducing:

Independence Books.

Independence Books is our new subsidiary. It is treated as an independent publisher. Not registered as POD in vendor databases. As I said earlier, how long do you think they'll be able to fool the vendors? Not registered as PublishAmerica. Again, they mention this as a benefit. That should strike you as odd. Uniform list prices are $14.95. [B ]That's reasonable for anything 400+ pages, but it's high for anything less than that. At least compared to the list prices of books in my store.[/B]

Want a new start for your book? Why does your 'publisher' think your book needs a new start? We will cause it to be published as an Independence Books title. It will receive a new ISBN and the new $14.95 list price. It will not show as POD. Again, they point out your book currently DOES list as POD. Make no mistake, it will not take vendors long to slap the POD tag onto Independence Books It will not list as PublishAmerica. Again, your 'publisher' is suggesting that not being listed with them is a good thing. ISBN-fed databases will show that your book is an Independence Books book, readily available from Independence Books. Readily available? ... not "In Stock"? Okay, I was wrong when I said it won't take vendors long to slap the POD label on IB ... they'll do it immediately.

Go to www.publishamerica.net, find your softcover, add to cart, use this discount coupon: IndyBooks40. Minimum volume is 7 softcovers. For 12 or more softcovers use the IndyBooks45 coupon. They just want you to buy books. That should be obvious by now. You are by far their best customer.

This will cause your book to be published as an Independence Books title. It will no longer be available from us as a PublishAmerica softcover. (Your book's paperback or hardback versions, if already activated, will keep their PublishAmerica designation.)Well, at least they're consistent with their insanity Your order today will be printed under the new Independence Books logo ( www.publishamerica.com/independence)You can't tell me that logo was done by a professional graphic designer, you just can't, with its new ISBN. Transfer may take up to 6-8 weeks to be completed and will be permanent. Book remains under contract with PublishAmerica. Use this coupon for your softcover only; other applications will not be processed. PublishAmerica's online bookstore will re-list the book as an Independence Books title generally within 24 business hours. Other vendors may do so at their discretion. That's a great way of avoiding responsibility when it doesn't happen.

Thank you.
--PublishAmerica Author Support Team

How'd I do?

PS Does the name Independence Books seem just wrong to anyone else?

Momento Mori · Jul 13, 2010

Latest PA Email:
Independence Books is our new subsidiary.

Erm ... does anyone know/have any ideas how is this going to work in practice? Is PA going to require authors to sign an assignment contract to this new subsidiary or is it just a new name for an old shell game?

The email suggests to me that they've set up a completely new company, but I'd be interested to know what the assignment rights are in the PA contract to see if they can transfer any titles over without author consent.

(Of course, given PA's weasel words, "subsidiary" could just mean "new company name" in which case, ignore me)

MM

Neil Larkins · Jul 13, 2010

Chris P said:
It seems the only advantage is that my softcover sells for a new price and doesn't carry the PA name. Everything else stays the same: no distribution, no marketing, no sales to anyone other than me.

Same s**t, different day...after day, after day, after day...
Neil

Chris P · Jul 13, 2010

So my choice as a PA author is to either activate my PAperback to sell for $9.95, or to send the title to IB to sell for $14.95. In other words, I'd be willing to pay $5 per book for it to NOT have the PA name. Would I pay a woman to pretend she's not my girlfriend?

merrihiatt · Jul 13, 2010

Momento Mori said:
Erm ... does anyone know/have any ideas how is this going to work in practice? Is PA going to require authors to sign an assignment contract to this new subsidiary or is it just a new name for an old shell game?

The email suggests to me that they've set up a completely new company, but I'd be interested to know what the assignment rights are in the PA contract to see if they can transfer any titles over without author consent.

(Of course, given PA's weasel words, "subsidiary" could just mean "new company name" in which case, ignore me)

MM

The e-mail stated: "Book remains under contract with PublishAmerica." But then again, who knows with PA.

DaveKuzminski · Jul 13, 2010

Gee, I hope PA did a trademark search to make certain that Independence Books is available and clear of other holders?

ResearchGuy · Jul 13, 2010

DaveKuzminski said:
Gee, I hope PA did a trademark search to make certain that Independence Books is available and clear of other holders?

It does not show up in a trademark search at uspto.gov (nor Independence Publishing nor Independence Publishers). Trademarks can also be secured at state level, though (at least that used to be the case, as I know someone who worked in that office in Calif.).

--Ken

JulieB · Jul 13, 2010

They used Independence Books as an imprint several years ago. Now they're calling it a "subsidiary."

At any rate, it's not a new name to them. They have some prior claim to it. (I'm not a lawyer, and so on.)

brianm · Jul 13, 2010

Momento Mori said:
Erm ... does anyone know/have any ideas how is this going to work in practice? Is PA going to require authors to sign an assignment contract to this new subsidiary or is it just a new name for an old shell game?

I think all of this may have to do with PA's financial situation and the LSI lawsuit.

The publishing contracts are between the authors and Publish America, a Maryland corporation (PA Corp). PA Corp is owned by Publish America, a limited liability limited partnership (PA LLLP). PA LLLP could be reactivating or starting up Independence to take the place of PA Corp if it is in fact going under.

If PA Corp goes under, PA LLLP and its general partner(s) and limited partners would probably not be affected by PA Corp's liabilities.

Imo, PA LLLP is milking PA Corp for every penny they can get out of it, including monies via the new termination offer. Additionally, they are trying to get authors to move their books over to Independence so that it can start generating monies on its own.

If PA Corp goes under, PA LLLP still has the big fat bank account and a new publishing entity - Independence.

All conjecture on my part.

~brianm~

merrihiatt · Jul 13, 2010

^ What Brian said. I was thinking the same thing.

James D. Macdonald · Jul 13, 2010

If the masterminds at PA think that they're going to go straight and start making money by selling books to the general public ... they'll find out that they read their slide-rule backwards.

Chris P · Jul 13, 2010

brianm said:
The publishing contracts are between the authors and Publish America, a Maryland corporation (PA Corp). PA Corp is owned by Publish America, a limited liability limited partnership (PA LLLP). PA LLLP could be reactivating or starting up Independence to take the place of PA Corp if it is in fact going under.

If PA Corp goes under, PA LLLP and its general partner(s) and limited partners would probably not be affected by PA Corp's liabilities.

Imo, PA LLLP is milking PA Corp for every penny they can get out of it, including monies via the new termination offer. Additionally, they are trying to get authors to move their books over to Independence so that it can start generating monies on its own.

If PA Corp goes under, PA LLLP still has the big fat bank account and a new publishing entity - Independence.

My contract states it's between me and PA LLLP ("hereinafter called the Publisher"), not PA Corp.

PA Corp can go bye-bye and my pub rights still reside with PA LLLP. But what you say is true overall: even if PA Corp owned the rights (or PA LLLP goes under), I assume that the rights will be transferred to IB as the "successors and assigns of Publisher" (PA contract, para 26). Nobody will get out free if PA Corp or PA LLLP go under.

Jim: I don't think this is an attempt to go straight at all. Independence Books will continue to operate under PA's business plan of selling books to authors. There is nothing in the new info indicating otherwise.

But again, we've declared/prayed for the death of PA for years. I'm anxious to see what happens next.

DaveKuzminski · Jul 13, 2010

I see it as merely an attempt, if Independence Books materializes at all in view of how much it could cost to transfer everything and get new ISBNs, to rid themselves of all the bad publicity on the Internet related to any searches for PublishAmerica. Any searches for bad news about IB will be limited to only a very few sites. Unfortunately for PA, we have more folks here willing to spread the word than they have so that won't last for long.

On the other hand, if they're willing to rid themselves for a small profit of the infidels who don't believe in PA at all, then they'll be back to a small size with only their most loyal supporters but a chance to actually make the conversion without losing much. Still, the bad reputation will follow them and growth will be slow if at all because then they'll be the publisher that had to change names. Plus the bad rep will return even quicker if they keep any of the personnel responsible for creating that bad rep through tone letters.

B.L. Robinson · Jul 13, 2010

On a whim, I typed www.independencebooks.com into my browser, and guess where it pops up to? Straight to the regular old PA site.

I received the $99.00 release email as well, and I too had requested the return of my rights (again) just a few days ago, so not sure if it is linked to that or not. My contract says nothing about any fees in this case, something I will note in my reply, but I am certain will make no difference in their attitude towards it. Let's see, check the countdown clock... I have 174 days left before my contract expires all on it's own, is it worth it to me to have it back now for only $99.00? Nah... I swore they wouldn't make another cent off my through any action of my own, and I meant it.

circlexranch · Jul 14, 2010

WOW! I take a couple of days to work my day job and the PA hits the fan!

I R A Lawyer and the use of the word 'subsidiary' is an interesting one. That is a specific legal term that is used to conote a separate and independent company that is a stand-alone that is however, owned by the mother-ship.

Whereas a division is a dependent portion of the host corporation. It has no independent existence.

I tripped someone up on that difference in a lawsuit by showing the merger papers where a subsidiary morphed into a division of the corporation and lost its legal identity.

The key phrase is "corporate veil." A subsidiary has one, a division doesn't.

I think the whole LSI lawsuit and B&T mess could be at the heart of it. If you can shift assets to a subsidiary, those assets can be protected from a judgment and even a bankruptcy if you have properly constructed a corporate veil. That's very hard though and requires lawyers with a lot of names on the door and big retainers. Just calling something a subsidiary doesn't make it so.

Sound the alarm boys and girls. Blog about it. Tweet about it and encourage others to do so. As the info gets googleized and shows up in searches, hopefully we can turn some newbies into cluebies.

$14.95 list price. 20% discount equals about $3.00. Shipping equals at least $3.99. No bargain there!

M.R.J. Le Blanc · Jul 14, 2010

Does anyone here believe that PA would fork up the cash for those kind of lawyers? I still think the Stooges are just trying any stupid idea they can, and will just disappear once there's no other way out.

Momento Mori · Jul 15, 2010

circlexranch:
If you can shift assets to a subsidiary, those assets can be protected from a judgment and even a bankruptcy if you have properly constructed a corporate veil. That's very hard though and requires lawyers with a lot of names on the door and big retainers. Just calling something a subsidiary doesn't make it so.

That's interesting. In the UK, any such attempt to move assets to avoid a bankruptcy can be rendered void by the liquidator under insolvency legislation. Do you have similar legislation in the US (or is it one of those pesky State -v- Federal law things)?

If a plaintiff suspects that a defendant is going to try and move assets to avoid paying on judgment, they can also apply for an injunction preventing the same (hard to win, but still a possibility).

MM

victoriastrauss · Jul 15, 2010

brianm said:
I think all of this may have to do with PA's financial situation and the LSI lawsuit.

I agree. All of what's happening now reads to me like a desperate effort to raise money. My hunch is that Independence is part of that effort, rather than an attempt to dodge bad press--I won't be surprised if it vanishes fairly soon, just like the hardcovers.

- Victoria

Marie Pacha · Jul 15, 2010

It seems as though PA intensifies their offers to their authors in the months just before they have to send out statements and royalty checks.

Supposedly, they have had a new distributor for quite a few months, so they can no longer use the LSI suit as an excuse for non-payment of current royalties; especially since most sales have to be made through PA.

Apparently, PA is pushing to renew old contracts: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/profile.php?id=100000962252451&v=wall&ref=ts

The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

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