The Newer Never-Ending PublishAmerica / America Star Books Thread

Don Davidson said:

The authors want copies of their book and will pay through the nose to get them.

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So True. Check out P3 Press. I understand authors are forking over as much as $20,000 for books from this publisher. And the one book I've read from them, a hardcover found in my local library, was seriously lacking editing.

A friend of a friend who had published his book thru Publish America last year told me to check out this site. I had been thinking about going with them until he filled me in on some of their shennigans. I'm the son of a coal miner, retired, and now have time to write more. I'm from the old Royal standard typewriter days when all manuscripts had to be submitted in hard copy. In my earlier years I used to write mysteries but that type I did is now passe. So is Columbo and Kojack. Told you I was old. I wrote a short story once about a mountaineer family but the agent I had sent it tosaid no one wanted that kind anymore. So I've just been writing for myself these last many years. Then I put together a novel I had been thinking about for almost 40 years. It's called "Devil John of the Cumberlands" and is about a U. S. Marshall whose notorious for the way he deals with lawbreakers. If they don't surrender when asked, and he gives them ample opportunity, he'll shoot them down without mercy. Many of the mountain folks thinks he's a hero because he'll see justice done, one way or another. Others think he's no better than a notorious outlaw.
My daughter typed my book in the computer, since I'm not that experienced yet. Said things are done on the internet now. Wow! That will save me postage and keep me from submitting a hard copy and waiting till it's returned before I send it out again. I've been sending out queries to see if I can find an agent. I keep getting rejection after rejection. I did a synopsis and included it in the e-mail, since most of the agents won't open attachments. When I search for publishers, all I get basically are those that you have to pay to publish your book. Glad I mentioned to my friend about going with Publish America. He set me straight real quick.
Now I'm trying to find more agents. They don't seem to advertise, either. I'm running out of the list I made up a while back. What happens then? Wait a while and start over again?
Anyone got any helpful advice for an old codger who still loves to write? I'll probably pen my own obit. LOL.

Arvid Lane said:

. . .Anyone got any helpful advice for an old codger who still loves to write? I'll probably pen my own obit. LOL.

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All of the advice I have to give is summarized in booklet linked in my sig. block, below. Free PDF (or now 99 cents on Kindle if you wish).

Old codger? A friend in his 80s just had his latest book published by a small commercial company. Due out soon, anyway. (He had one via PublishAmerica -- fine book, deserved better. Moved on. Does not waste effort carping about PA. Just kept on writing.)

And a woman I met when she was 82 was looking for a publisher for her memoir. Narrowly dodged PA. At nearly 88 she is still on the speaking circuit. Book won a major literary award in its first edition (2007), and has since been republished by a large-ish independent, first in hardback and then in trade paperback. The new publisher really muffed promotion and even marketing, but it ain't over yet. (New distributor is helping some, but it is still an uphill slog.). One of the most brilliant books I have ever read.

Heck, P.G. Wodehouse's last book was published when he was about 90.

--Ken

Welcome to AW, Arvid. Glad you side-stepped PA.

I’ve spent all morning flitting back and forth reading these comments and I’m utterly shocked that this company is still in business.

Back in the late 1800s, Devil John would have given them a chance to surrender and stand trial based only on the damning testimony of a few honest mountain folks. Horse thieves have been hung for only stealing one horse. What this company has done is utterly reprehensible.

Can’t anything legal be done to stop them? Seems to me they’re worse than the mafia ever thought of being.

Thank God I didn’t fall prey to their web of deceit.

Arvid Lane said:

. . . Can’t anything legal be done to stop them? Seems to me they’re worse than the mafia ever thought of being. . . . .

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The Mafia comparison is silly, or worse. PA never hung snitches on meathooks to die, just for starters. Not engaging in murder for hire, running prostitution rings, extorting protection money from local businesses, beating and maiming those who do not cooperate, running numbers rackets, selling illegal drugs, facilating black market tobacco transactions, and on and on and on. (Don't tell me that fooling someone into signing a bad contract for a usually unpublishable book is comparable. Such comparisons are crazy and make light of real crime and real evil.)

As for doing something legal to stop them . . . read the thousands and thousands of posts in this and other threads. In a word, NO. And, like it or not, some -- maybe many -- of those who have signed with PA are satisfied with the transaction. They may be fooling themselves or just have very low standards, but that is their business.

What to do? Pursue your own writing in the best ways achievable. Advise aspiring book authors to avoid PA and other vanity presses and to learn how real publishing works, what queries and book proposals are, the role of agents, the appropriate uses of self- and subsidy publishing, and so on.

--Ken

Arvid Lane said:

Can’t anything legal be done to stop them?

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They're not doing anything that has been proven to be illegal.

~brianm~

It's certainly unethical, but unfortunately not illegal to put out a sub-par product, fail to promote it and urge authors to buy back that product in bulk.

The company is in business because so many authors are willing to pay for their own books, pay for editing, pay for uploading books to the Kindle and so on. Most of them believe that if a company charges nothing upfront, it's not a scam - so there's usually a honeymoon period with their Traditional Publisher before reality strikes. And during that time they make purchases and recommend PA to other inexperienced writers, so the cycle repeats itself.

brianm said:

They're not doing anything that has been proven to be illegal.

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Brianm and I have gone round and round on whether PublishAmerica's false and misleading claims qualify as fraud--either civil or criminal--but what we both agree on is that no one in a position to do something about it seems to have the slightest interest in doing so. Individual authors lack the resources to go after them. The Maryland Attorney General's Office will do nothing because they don't consider it a consumer issue, and perhaps rightly so. Federal agencies have bigger fish to fry.

So while it may be true that "someone ought to do something!," I think it's pretty clear that no one but authors, individually and in groups like this, will actually do anything. So we try to get the truth out there, little by little. And maybe, like tiny rain drops filling a river, we will one day see our tiny efforts bring down PA. One can hope.

James D. Macdonald said:

What will bring down PA is Larry and Miranda turning on each other.

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I'd pay to see that.

~brianm~

My money's on Miranda. She will slay him with her mad spelling and grammar skills.

Wow...

The only thing I can say is that anyone who signs a contract, no matter how long, without reading it is asking for trouble.

Even a mortgage contract. A lot of people think, "Oh, this is a standard contract." Well, it may be, but whether you're looking at a mortgage, or a book deal, or whatever, you still need to understand the terms of that contract, or they'll come back to bite you in the ol' glutes!

James D. Macdonald said:

What will bring down PA is Larry and Miranda turning on each other.

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Might want to rephrase that, Uncle Jim . . . the picture that came to mind is positively frightening. And the offspring of that union . . . O. M. G.

--Ken

ResearchGuy said:

Might want to rephrase that, Uncle Jim . . . the picture that came to mind is positively frightening. And the offspring of that union . . . O. M. G.

--Ken

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They'd come down the chute with a whip in one hand and a tone letter in the other.

~brianm~

Perhaps...

James D. Macdonald said:

Even reading the PA contract won't help you if you assume that its written in good faith and that they intend to sell books (to anyone except you).

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Thankfully, I was never sucked in by PA, so I have never seen their contract. I guess it's more of a problem of what is not in the contract than what is? Because if there is something in the contract on which they do not follow through, that would be actionable. At the very least, in answer to the OPs question for example, there would be legal grounds for rights to revert back to the author.

Then again, IANAL.

God I love that acronym!

MarcMcClure said:

Thankfully, I was never sucked in by PA, so I have never seen their contract. I guess it's more of a problem of what is not in the contract than what is? Because if there is something in the contract on which they do not follow through, that would be actionable. At the very least, in answer to the OPs question for example, there would be legal grounds for rights to revert back to the author.

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There's an analysis of the contract here.

One of the biggest problems about the contract is that almost everything related to what PA will do is designated 'at PA's discretion'. Which means PA is contractually obliged to do almost nothing. Hence the difficulty of suing them for breach.

People who read that contract, including lawyers who might know contract law but don't actually know publishing contracts, don't imagine that PA won't do any of the stuff that's designated 'at PA's discretion' because those are things that publishers do, so why wouldn't they? It's not until a customer realises that PA has no intention of doing those things that they might go back and read their contract, and behold....it's all 'at PA's discretion'.

So If you revert your rights back, does that get you out of the contract as well? And if it doesn't, I've heard some of you guys getting out of their contract. I need some advice because I'm wanting to get out mine. Thanks.

Bah! Server ate my response!

Welcome Anthony! To my understanding, PA owns the publishing rights to your work (and any digital rights, etc. they might have glomped in your contract), and ending the contract with them will end any rights they have. You have always had the copyright, but that's not much good to you unless you have the publishing rights as well.

The easiest way to get out is to buy your way out. PA will sell you your rights back if you pay $99 or $149, depending on which "product" you select on their webpage. The other option (long but cheap) is to wait out your contract. The last option (only VERY RARELY successful for reasons stated upthread and very expensive) is to find a legal reason to force PA to end your contract.

I'm waiting mine out. My PA novella was a non-starter anyway and I'm busy with new, better projects. I don't need that first attempt at novel-length fiction. It'll be mine again by the time I'm interested in redoing it.

Chris P said:

Bah! Server ate my response!

Welcome Anthony! To my understanding, PA owns the publishing rights to your work (and any digital rights, etc. they might have glomped in your contract), and ending the contract with them will end any rights they have. You have always had the copyright, but that's not much good to you unless you have the publishing rights as well.

The easiest way to get out is to buy your way out. PA will sell you your rights back if you pay $99 or $149, depending on which "product" you select on their webpage. The other option (long but cheap) is to wait out your contract. The last option (only VERY RARELY successful for reasons stated upthread and very expensive) is to find a legal reason to force PA to end your contract.

I'm waiting mine out. My PA novella was a non-starter anyway and I'm busy with new, better projects. I don't need that first attempt at novel-length fiction. It'll be mine again by the time I'm interested in redoing it.

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Welcome, Anthony!

I have read on this thread of a 4th option: being a persistent thorn in PA's side by writing/emailing them repeatedly and politely, asking to be let out of the contract. Some say they got out of the contract that way. I don't know if that is still a realistic option, now that they have hit on the idea of letting people buy their way out of the contract. And I wonder if PA ever let people like me out, who never actually bought any books, or whether it was just limited to those whom PA had already milked dry. At any rate, I never tried it, and I'm sure they would not let me out now without an agreement to take down the PA page of my web site--which is not going to happen.

Since I refuse on principle to give PA any money for scamming me, I am waiting them out. In about 3 1/2 more years, my book can breathe free again!

By the way, be sure to check your contract for the automatic renewal provision, which renews the contract for another 7 years unless you specifically opt out in writing. And from my reading of the contract, an email is insufficient--you must notify PA via U.S. mail that you are opting out.

So you're saying if I pay to get my rights back($99), then the contract is canceled as well. Is that right?

AnthonyJones said:

So you're saying if I pay to get my rights back($99), then the contract is canceled as well. Is that right?

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Cancelling the contract terminates any rights PA has under the contract.

Folks seem to be using the terms interchangeably, but be sure to be clear: you want the contract cancelled and all rights returned to you, in writing.

--Ken