Can Atheists Adopt?

Alpha Echo

I should be writing.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
9,615
Reaction score
1,852
Location
East Coast
1970 was some time ago....

Not to derail, 1970 is a long time ago, but here in VA we still have crazy, archaic laws dating back to the 1600's - one saying that cohabitation is still illegal. This normally doesn't matter unless you're dealing with a divorced father and the mother goes nuts and tries to keep the girlfriend - the only woman who's ever met the daughter in the 4 years since the divorce and the woman who will probably marry the father - from moving in.

Sorry. Just sayin' that there are a lot of stupid old laws that need to be overturned.
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
Not to derail, 1970 is a long time ago, ....

Well, we've come a long way since 1970, especially in the religious sphere. If you were a religious nut who wanted to fly a plane into something in 1970 or earlier, there were archaic things like getting an imperial rescript from a Divine Emperor to say that your suicidal attack thing was a divine idea.
I know for example, having been brought up as a strict Shinto Agronomist by very traditionalist sunworshipers, that I could never offer the cherry blossom of my life without a good copy of the Imperial Rescript...so I could admire the calligraphy in my cockpit while having a cherry soda before diving my plane into some not-quite-Imperially correct warship.
 

raburrell

Treguna Makoidees Trecorum SadisDee
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
6,902
Reaction score
3,781
Age
50
Location
MA
Website
www.rebeccaburrell.com
But Raburrel got those emails about saving the heathen children from an eternity in hell in some more recent Epoch, I would guess since email is more recent than 1970.

circa 2007. And said agency still emails us similar stuff. To be fair, it's not quite *that* on the nose - More about our responsibility as Christians to bring the children of unbelievers into the light of God's Saving Grace, who but for us would be denied the chance to hear His message. All this, for the low, low price of $30k...

All well and good for those who believe... but we don't. Found another agency who fit us better and haven't really looked back. That aside, I do think the Christian agencies largely do good work, I just don't particularly enjoy being proselytized at this stage of the game.
 

the addster

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 26, 2008
Messages
471
Reaction score
44
Website
addiepray.wordpress.com
But Raburrel got those emails about saving the heathen children from an eternity in hell in some more recent Epoch, I would guess since email is more recent than 1970.

The promotion of the savior complex can't be overestimated in the marketing of children.

Back in '65 I was adopted by an atheist and a Christian Scientist. I'm pretty sure they lied on the application.
 

Lyv

I meant to do that.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
4,958
Reaction score
1,934
Location
Outside Boston
In the late 1990s, my husband and I were told by more than one lawyer and adoption agency representative that we wouldn't have a chance of getting a child without claiming a religious affiliation. They told us we better join a church and go regularly and then ask that church's religious leader for a letter of recommendation.

Atheists still face a mountain of discrimination, in many areas.
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
In the late 1990s, my husband and I were told by more than one lawyer and adoption agency representative that we wouldn't have a chance of getting a child without claiming a religious affiliation. They told us we better join a church and go regularly and then ask that church's religious leader for a letter of recommendation.

Atheists still face a mountain of discrimination, in many areas.

I've been writing lots of snappy letters for all the Shinto Agronomists in my neighborhood. But since I sign them:

Yours truly from the depths of Hell

they haven't let us adopt anyone. I fill all my letters with cherry blossoms and signed photos of famous Kamakazis holding up fine copies of rescripts from the Divine Emperor and still...no bouncing little bundles of joy.

MUST WORK ON CALLIGRAPHY
 

benbradley

It's a doggy dog world
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
20,322
Reaction score
3,513
Location
Transcending Canines
That's bizarre. I think it's safe to say that wouldn't happen here in California. ;)
Are you saying there are no atheists in California? ;)
So wouldn't an upbringing in any single religious demonimination infringe on a person's "inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience"? I mean, last I heard, there was more than one religion out there, and being a member of one often sort of precludes the others.
Richard Dawkins (I THINK it's him, I know it's one of the "Four Horsemen" big-name atheist writers) says the same thing - there's really no such thing as a "Christian child" or "Muslim child," just "child of Christian parents" and "child of Muslim parents."

I don't know of any statistics, but I think in modern society children less often choose the faith of their parents when they become adults than they did in previous generations. Mass communication of the last century surely contributes. I've heard of country preachers upset that when high-school graduates from their flock go off to college and come back, they've lost their faith.
The right of people to believe in the unprovable (i.e. the tennets of religious beliefs) ought to stop when it inpacts others' lives (and rights).

Hello, Separation of Church and State? Where the F are you? We need you here now.
I want to know how this got in the NJ State Constitition:
The 1970 Time Magazine article said:
Inestimable Privilege. In an extraordinary decision, Judge Camarata denied the Burkes' right to the child because of their lack of belief in a Supreme Being. Despite the Burkes' "high moral and ethical standards," he said, the New Jersey state constitution declares that "no person shall be deprived of the inestimable privilege of worshiping Almighty God in a manner agreeable to the dictates of his own conscience."
One might argue the judge was just upholding the NJ Constitution, though that part sure appears to go against the First Amendment of the US Constitution.

On a slight tangent here, I can see where the wording of the First Amendment, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,..." (bolding mine) might be interpreted as saying that only the US Federal Government is restrained from passing laws related to religion, whereas local and state governments are not so restricted. It seems to me that much of the body of the US Constitution and many of the other amendments clearly only apply to the Federal Government (and its relation to the States, for example). But certainly this has been for the most part, or perhaps always, interpreted as meaning NO government within the US shall make such a law.

On yet another tangent, I've heard Homeowners' associations bylaws have the same legal force as town laws - I wonder if there's such an association that requires a religious belief of its residents.
1970 was some time ago....
Yes, it was. I didn't know they had the internet then. How did this article get online?
Scanners and OCR. Time Magazine is remarkable in having so many of its older articles and issues available online. I suspect that was rather expensive, but then it's all indexed in Google and when you get to the article there's an ad (a CURRENT paying Web ad, not one that was originally with the article!). I've seen a Time article (or two!) from the 1950's on a certain SF-author-turned-self-help-guru, L. Ron Hubbard.

How can you tell it's from 1970? I'm not finding a date on it anywhere (which is really poor planning on Time's part).
Yeah, it's small and gray, but I can read it fine on this CRT. You may have to adjust your monitor.
circa 2007. And said agency still emails us similar stuff.
Spammers! There's something in the mostly-silly "can-spam act" about having "recent business contact" but I'm sure that's for a lot less than two years.

Email them back telling them to stop sending you emails and CC: their Internet provider. Forward any future emails from them to their Internet provider.

And for the record, I also hate Muslim, Jewish and atheist spammers just as much as Christian spammers.
 

Kurtz

Fix up, look sharp.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 28, 2009
Messages
955
Reaction score
131
Location
Teotihuacan
I am liking Higgins' Shintoist Agronomism. It makes my insides turn to cherry blossoms radiating divine spark kamikaze emperor cherry blossom divine cherry blossom.
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
I am liking Higgins' Shintoist Agronomism. It makes my insides turn to cherry blossoms radiating divine spark kamikaze emperor cherry blossom divine cherry blossom.

Christ. You can spell kamikaze. The Next two steps are:

1) an eternity in hell (good preparation for anything in life)
2) Calligraphy (everything looks better after an eternity in hell)
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
I don't think it was legal even in 1970.

As you may recall, in 1971, Henry Kissenger stuffed the US Supreme Court with 100 Divine Emperors (or their equivalent in very, very good morally absolute imposters). It was part of his strategy to portray Nixon as a complete lunatic and himself as the only one who really could save the world from Nixon. After that everything was legal if you could get an Imperial Rescript on the topic from the Supreme Court. I myself legalized Shinto Agronomy as an "Imperially Correct Practice" for only 6 dollars.

This was a series of firsts for the US Supreme Court:

1) it was the first time 100 Divine Emperors had sat in the Supreme Court
2) It was the first time that all court decisions (AKA "rescripts") were written in illegible and very archaic (though how would you really know) Japanese.

well.....not much of a series, but it was enough to make the Treaty of Vladivastok work like a charm once Gerald Ford worked hard enough on his calligarphy.


 

Smish

Reads more than she writes.
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
8,636
Reaction score
3,087
Location
in the Bouncy Castle
But Raburrel got those emails about saving the heathen children from an eternity in hell in some more recent Epoch, I would guess since email is more recent than 1970.

Yes, but Raburrel also said that the emails came from a Christian organization, so I don't see your point. If the State is requiring adoptive parents to be Christians, then yes, that is a problem, and in violation of the Constitution.
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
Yes, but Raburrel also said that the emails came from a Christian organization, so I don't see your point. If the State is requiring adoptive parents to be Christians, then yes, that is a problem, and in violation of the Constitution.

I guess the State has the power to remove children from hell. That's a relief. Also a metaphysical surprise. Is that because the state is ordained by an alternative set of divinities? Certainly I find some support for that idea in the ironclad, absolute zero moral compass of Shinto Agronomy.
 

SPMiller

Prodigiously Hanged
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
11,525
Reaction score
1,988
Age
41
Location
Dallas
Website
seanpatrickmiller.com
In the late 1990s, my husband and I were told by more than one lawyer and adoption agency representative that we wouldn't have a chance of getting a child without claiming a religious affiliation. They told us we better join a church and go regularly and then ask that church's religious leader for a letter of recommendation.

Atheists still face a mountain of discrimination, in many areas.
The 90s were hell for me to grow up in. Now, I just avoid people. I don't have my finger on the pulse of atheist treatment today, but I'm sure little if anything has changed. Even though the total population of atheists has grown larger.
 

Satori1977

Listening to the Voices In My Head
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
5,976
Reaction score
662
Location
I can see the Rocky Mountains
What BS. So you can join a church and fake a religious belief, and it is ok? So they would rather give a child to a Christian who is a (unknown) pedophile, than an athiest who has done nothing criminal? That makes me angry. Being religious does not automatically make you a good person, a good parent, or vice versa.
 

Andrew

Most of the rules gotta go...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Nov 23, 2005
Messages
792
Reaction score
64
Location
Alabama
The answer to the question is of course.
 

AMCrenshaw

...
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2008
Messages
4,671
Reaction score
620
Website
dfnovellas.wordpress.com
The 90s were hell for me to grow up in. Now, I just avoid people. I don't have my finger on the pulse of atheist treatment today, but I'm sure little if anything has changed. Even though the total population of atheists has grown larger.

I give it a few (2500) years of work.



AMC
 

Higgins

Banned
Joined
Sep 1, 2006
Messages
4,302
Reaction score
414
Man I'm glad I don't live in the US...I still think it's funny how you have the constitutional seperation of state and religion, and we have our head of state as the head of the church, and yet we have none of this nonsense.

As perhaps the only strict Shinto agronomist in the USA...I have to admit that it is puzzling that there is all this stuff about the constitution and the supreme court, but it turns out that if you just want to make things rough anyone perceived as somehow deviant (which in the case of Shinto Agronomy which is absolutely guaranteed by an ironclad zero degree moral compass to be absolutely and totally not deviant in any way, is absurd) then that's okay.