All Things Middle Grade
- Thread starter timp67
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,691
- Reaction score
- 317
- Location
- Kate brought me.
- Website
- www.kristindmiller.com
I just sent my MG fantasy to my agent. It's about a boy who idolizes his lawyer father and wants to be just like him, but never expected to be representing Little Red Riding Hood against Big Bad Wolf's packmates.
Also, I'm finishing a magical realism about a poverty-stricken brother and sister who discover a shop that makes the world a better place.
Finally, I'm plotting a sibling saga about four city sisters who move to the country and their adventures there. It's Little Women meets The Penderwicks.
Re: dialogue tags: I think the one thing to remember is that they can really slow down the action of the story. A reader can gloss over "he said," and keep going, but something like, "she whispered" might stop the reader up short. That isn't a bad thing, but you'll want to utilize those kinds of tags at the right moments. They can build tension or change the mood of a scene, if that's what you need.
That's all for MG books? Are they still called novels? Is there any MG market for fiction that doesn't have a fantasy element. I'm writing an adventure story with a 10-year-old MC, but by-in-large it is an adventure story.
If anyone has some pointers, could you point me to some MG adventure stories?
Why I'm leaving my adult fiction element; I don't know, but I guess I just have a story to tell that has younger characters!
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2008
- Messages
- 1,691
- Reaction score
- 317
- Location
- Kate brought me.
- Website
- www.kristindmiller.com
Hi rejectME! Um, that's a username I don't love to type out, LOL.
Yes, MG books are still called novels. And, yes, there actually is quite a bit of demand for non-fantasy MG. I had one agent tell me that she was rather sick of seeing MG fantasy, actually. Wasn't a great thing for me to hear, since that is what I had sent her.
Yes, MG books are still called novels. And, yes, there actually is quite a bit of demand for non-fantasy MG. I had one agent tell me that she was rather sick of seeing MG fantasy, actually.
Wasn't a great thing for me to hear, since that is what I had sent her. 
Yes its still considered a novel. As for whether there can be just plain adventure stories, I'm sure there can be. I don't however know of any titles, sorry.
Good luck! and remember, the 20-40k is a guideline, not a srict rule.
Good luck! and remember, the 20-40k is a guideline, not a srict rule.
That's all for MG books? Are they still called novels? Is there any MG market for fiction that doesn't have a fantasy element. I'm writing an adventure story with a 10-year-old MC, but by-in-large it is an adventure story.
If anyone has some pointers, could you point me to some MG adventure stories?
MG can be quite a bit longer than 40K, because MG encompasses such a wide age range and reading ability levels.
Good news-There's a huge market for non-fantasy MG. I hate to keep plugging the adventure books website, but it really is there for informational purposes, so click on the link in my signature and you will find many MG books by many different authors described there.
Wow! Thanks to all of you. You folks rock! I have never ever written for MG, but I thought I wanted to give it a shot and I really like the enthusiasm in here!
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2006
- Messages
- 8,745
- Reaction score
- 3,096
- Location
- Toronto, Canada
- Website
- www.adriennekress.com
While it isn't the norm, my MG's clock in around 80 000, so no you aren't stuck with the 20 - 40K range. But you have to realise that that is not typical, and if you are going that route you are going to have to deal with even more critical analyse of your work to make sure it warrants such a high word count.
Also with adventure/fantasy novels you get a bit more leeway with wordcount.
If you want to check out some adventure MGs . . . um may I recommend mine?
Also with adventure/fantasy novels you get a bit more leeway with wordcount.
If you want to check out some adventure MGs . . . um may I recommend mine?
Just weighing in on the "said" topic ...
I prefer to use mainly "said" and "asked", with an occasional "sneered" or "scoffed" thrown in to spice things up!
I prefer to use mainly "said" and "asked", with an occasional "sneered" or "scoffed" thrown in to spice things up!
Hey, things are really hopping in here now. Yay! May I take a moment to steer you all over to a word count thread I started last week (that is currently only inhabited by little 'ol me and some chirping crickets)? It will be a great place to keep each other - and ourselves - on track with any word count goals we have or will set to finish our novels.
And as far as dialogue tags, I use quickies like "said" and "asked" unless I'm really trying to convey a specific feeling or if my character is especially animated and just begs for more description in his/her tags. In other words, I use descriptive tags sparingly, but am not afraid to use them if they're warranted.
May I take a moment to steer you all over to a word count thread I started last week (that is currently only inhabited by little 'ol me and some chirping crickets)? It will be a great place to keep each other - and ourselves - on track with any word count goals we have or will set to finish our novels.And as far as dialogue tags, I use quickies like "said" and "asked" unless I'm really trying to convey a specific feeling or if my character is especially animated and just begs for more description in his/her tags. In other words, I use descriptive tags sparingly, but am not afraid to use them if they're warranted.
P.S. If you sift through the VERY lengthy Jennifer Laughran thread in the Ask the Agent forum, she makes mention that there is a big need for straight MG - no magic, no vamps, no frills. I find that encouraging, since that's what I'm currently working on.
No question that word counts re genre are guides, and that there are exceptions. I would say more so for adult books than for PB, MG, and YA, but there are exceptions for the latter group as well.
Although it's fairly obvious, I don't think anyone has pointed out why. The more words, the more pages in a book. The more pages the higher the production cost. The higher the production cost the higher the retail price. The suggested word count for children's books allows publishers to bring in a book at a cost that enables them to retail a book at a price point they think is most desirable, and one that they believe will produce the most sales. Of course this is a generalization, and as said, there will always be exceptions. But I think that to be an exception a book has to be considered a "can't miss."
Although it's fairly obvious, I don't think anyone has pointed out why. The more words, the more pages in a book. The more pages the higher the production cost. The higher the production cost the higher the retail price. The suggested word count for children's books allows publishers to bring in a book at a cost that enables them to retail a book at a price point they think is most desirable, and one that they believe will produce the most sales. Of course this is a generalization, and as said, there will always be exceptions. But I think that to be an exception a book has to be considered a "can't miss."
Well sure, it's obvious NOW!
Thanks, Scope, for bringing up that point, which I, for one, had not considered. Guess I'll be making darn sure to keep my MG in the suggested range!
Well right now i'm working on the sequel to the novel I'm querying, so it's MG urban fantasy. quote]
Okay, I've kept from asking this question long enough now; I've just got to know...what is urban fantasy?(hangs head in shame of ignorance)
Well right now i'm working on the sequel to the novel I'm querying, so it's MG urban fantasy. quote]
Okay, I've kept from asking this question long enough now; I've just got to know...what is urban fantasy?
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150175
There's another reason as well, and that's from the kid perspective. A fluent adult reader, college-level, reads upwards of 300 words a minute when reading silently. A third-grader is considered on track if he/she can read above 100 words a minute. So, do the math. 30,000 words divided by 100 words per minute equals 300 minutes of reading time. 300 minutes equals 5 hours of solid reading to finish that book. When you consider that the average modern child reads about 20 minutes a day, if we're lucky... That's at least 15 days of reading to finish a single book. Every 1000 words you add to the length equals another 3 days of reading.
Of course there are love-to-read kids who read more than 20 minutes a day. And fluent kids who read 200 words in a minute. But...are you willing to stake your career on building them into your audience? Or are you aiming for something a little broader?
It isn't anything negative about the modern world. Kids actually read for fun far more now than they did 20 or 30 years ago. But they also have homework and soccer practice and chores and stuff. For a while, my younger son was trying to keep one book at his dad's house, one book at my house and one book at school so he wouldn't lose anything. So take that 15 days of reading, split it between three different books, and suddenly you have a kid who takes 2 months to finish each book, even though he loves to read and reads every day.
I know so many struggling and reluctant kids who will take one look at a book with a two-inch spine and never even read the back cover. Just the size is enough to scare them.
And many schools reward kids for the number of books they've read, not the number of pages....
Plus teachers who purchase a class set of books aren't going to take on a monster tome that half the class won't be able to finish. They will assign a chapter a day...so keep those under 20!
It all adds up to: If your story demands a higher wordcount, then so be it. But there are definite advantages to keeping it small.
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2009
- Messages
- 413
- Reaction score
- 44
- Location
- Auckland, NZ
- Website
- theleilasoliloquy.blogspot.com
I think it very much depends what you're aiming at. I think that if you're looking to write a chapter book for the 6-8 year olds who are just getting into reading books with chapters, then shorter is definitely better. They can have the pride of being 'grown up' enough to read a chapter book more easily, and (hopefully) eventually be inspired to try something a bit longer.
Above 8, where kids are often a lot more confident reading by themselves, it all gets very murky. There's a lot of lengthy stuff, especially fantasy.
Not really my genre, but maybe try Willard Price's novels. Or if you want something a little younger, Justin D'Ath has a series called Extreme Adventures.
Above 8, where kids are often a lot more confident reading by themselves, it all gets very murky. There's a lot of lengthy stuff, especially fantasy.
Not really my genre, but maybe try Willard Price's novels. Or if you want something a little younger, Justin D'Ath has a series called Extreme Adventures.
I think, for a writer, the job is just to write the best story you can, and then edit it as tight as a drum.
If it's on the shorter side, fine. If it's on the larger side, that's okay, too.
If the story is a ripping yarn, kids will read it!
If it's on the shorter side, fine. If it's on the larger side, that's okay, too.
If the story is a ripping yarn, kids will read it!
What Have You Published MG Authors Done to Publicize Your Book On Your Own?
I'm wondering what the published MG authors out there have done to publicize their book, on their own, or with a paid publicist, or ... nothing?
I'm wondering what the published MG authors out there have done to publicize their book, on their own, or with a paid publicist, or ... nothing?
Thanks for all the great advise in here.
Does anyone write middle grade fiction in the first person? (That's not, like 10, that is) Can you even do that??
Thanks, Jules
Does anyone write middle grade fiction in the first person? (That's not, like 10, that is) Can you even do that??
Thanks, Jules
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2005
- Messages
- 1,641
- Reaction score
- 263
- Location
- slightly off center
- Website
- peevishpen.blogspot.com
I have a middle grade novel that's in first person (11-year-old narrator). It is yet unpublished, and has accumulated a handful of rejections. However, a couple of agents have liked my character's voice.
I've read several MG novels in the first person, such as Debbie Wiles' Each Little Bird That Sings that was a finalist for a national book award.
Hi, Jules! Welcome to AW!! 
To answer your question, sure, first person can be used in MG novels, and quite effectively, in my opinion. I think it's a great way for your MC's voice to shine through...which is especially important for getting young readers to connect with your story.
My current MG WIP is in first person and I can't imagine it any other way. Go for it and good luck!!
To answer your question, sure, first person can be used in MG novels, and quite effectively, in my opinion. I think it's a great way for your MC's voice to shine through...which is especially important for getting young readers to connect with your story.
My current MG WIP is in first person and I can't imagine it any other way. Go for it and good luck!!
Ida B by Katherine Hannigan is in first person and got great reviews. I haven't read it yet, but my daughter's teacher used it for their reading group last year and the kids really enjoyed it.
first person works all the way from picture book up to adult. The thing about first person is that it turns a book into one about character and voice, first and foremost. If your character has a strong, unique, highly individual voice, then first person makes it sing.
Examples: DIARY OF A WIMPY KID, JUNIE B. JONES, THE LIGHTNING THIEF, JOEY PIGZA SWALLOWS THE KEY, CATHERINE CALLED BIRDY, ELLA ENCHANTED, THE GRADUATION OF JAKE MOON. I could go on and on.
In fact, I could think of so many first person kid's books off the top of my head, that it worries me a little you would have to ask that question. It suggests to me that you need to run, not walk, to your local library. If you haven't read much of what is being published these days, you're really missing out on some incredible writing.
Examples: DIARY OF A WIMPY KID, JUNIE B. JONES, THE LIGHTNING THIEF, JOEY PIGZA SWALLOWS THE KEY, CATHERINE CALLED BIRDY, ELLA ENCHANTED, THE GRADUATION OF JAKE MOON. I could go on and on.
In fact, I could think of so many first person kid's books off the top of my head, that it worries me a little you would have to ask that question. It suggests to me that you need to run, not walk, to your local library. If you haven't read much of what is being published these days, you're really missing out on some incredible writing.
This thread has kicked off big time in my absence!
Well I went ahead and released my MG through Lulu as I was getting fed up with hitting the proverbial cross bar on every attempt. The amount of times I was told my writing was good but it didn't "click" or they weren't taking on any new authors was really disheartening...
My book is finished and has been (technically) available for a month now. I've sold 52 copies so far -not a bad start, but it has been a lot of work and I've had to put the writing of my second novel on hold as I spend all my free time following leads and plugging away
This week it appeared on amazon all over the world for the first time. Not happy by the cost to the US and Japan, as that may be the first anyone sees of me as an author, and £31 is just theft -and nearly four times what I sell it for to these countries!
So a good start and glad I finally accepted my book as MG, edited, re-edited and cut it to fit the mould and in the process have produced something I believe is exciting and worth promoting...
Well I went ahead and released my MG through Lulu as I was getting fed up with hitting the proverbial cross bar on every attempt. The amount of times I was told my writing was good but it didn't "click" or they weren't taking on any new authors was really disheartening...
My book is finished and has been (technically) available for a month now. I've sold 52 copies so far -not a bad start, but it has been a lot of work and I've had to put the writing of my second novel on hold as I spend all my free time following leads and plugging away
This week it appeared on amazon all over the world for the first time. Not happy by the cost to the US and Japan, as that may be the first anyone sees of me as an author, and £31 is just theft -and nearly four times what I sell it for to these countries!
So a good start and glad I finally accepted my book as MG, edited, re-edited and cut it to fit the mould and in the process have produced something I believe is exciting and worth promoting...