All Things Middle Grade

Hedgetrimmer

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I've given up on MG. It's a great genre, and I do enjoy reading it, but I just don't think I can cut it as a writer for this group. After writing three novels in as many years, I'm still nowhere nearer to breaking in. Fiction never has been kind to me. I'm currentlly concentrating my efforts on narrative essays, with which I've had measurable success in the past. Still, I wish all you MG writers much luck and success.
 

scope

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I got my agent with my YA book (soon to be subbed out) and just started writing an MG book and boy, soooo much harder to write than YA ;-) And for boys too which makes it 10 times harder (imo). But it's fun and exciting branching out into something new :)


I completely agree with the difficulty thing. I think the language and imagery is much harder and trickier than for PB or YA. We are catching them "tween" and it's difficult to know how much they have learned and are capable of understanding.
 

RoseColoredSkies

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I haven't actually tried writing for boys. I guess I just haven't been struck with any storylines geared towards them. Maybe it's my own interests in material that appeal more to girls (mythology). I'll have to think about it and may consider doing an MG book geared towards boys just to see how it goes. Like a little challenge.
 

timp67

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The book I've got going is about a boy ... but his sister is involved, too. I like the stories that boys and girls alike can happily read, but you're right. They're a little tricky!
 

MissKris

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My MG fantasy MC is a boy, the magical realism has boy/girl siblings, but the girl gets most of the POV time. And the sibling saga has a cast of five major characters with a mix of boys and girls. I haven't decided if I want any particular character to get the most POV or not.

For me, the hardest thing about writing MG is remembering what life was like at that age. It's a muddled mess of a time, for me personally.

I like the stories that boys and girls alike can happily read.

Yes, this. An ultimate goal, to be sure! :)
 

RoseColoredSkies

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Yeah trying to remember what I was even like back then is hard. Because depending the specific age it was at least a decade ago...it was actually last century....ok somebody stop me. I'm making myself feel ancient!

But seriously, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna write a book for boys!
 

scope

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MissKris & RoseColoredSkies,

In addition to it being difficult for us to remember what it was like "back in the day," it's also quite different today. I strongly suggest you make time to visit schools, the children's section of libraries, and other venues where children gather. Listen, observe, ask questions, and if at all possible (get permission) try to get involved in some sort of
question/answer or "speech" time with the kids -- could be about children's books, publishing, subjects of kids book, their making their own little book, or a score of other things. Free -- no charge to anyone. You may come away thinking completely different than you do now.
 

MissKris

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You're absolutely right, scope, that it's so important to have a good understanding of our target audience. I actually student taught middle grade and volunteer with that age group with two organizations right now. It's helpful to have those perspectives when it comes to my writing. But I would love, also, to remember what I really thought about things at that time in my life with the hope (assumption?) that my writing would be richer because of it.
 

Laura Lond

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I write MG and YA, usually it is adventure with some fantasy elements to it. I love it.

I wish agents and publishers loved it as well.
 

Cyia

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The novel I had a thread for in SYW is an accidental MG novel. It started out as a very standard YA, but the MC kept getting younger and younger and now he's somewhere between 12 and 14. To my absolute shock, it works better that way. There are superheroes and such, so I guess it would qualify as Urban Fantasy of some sort, but I'm not going to give it a classification until it's finished.

Watching TV shows geared toward the appropriate age can help, too... if you can handle the headache.
 

RoseColoredSkies

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Luckily, my mother teaches this age group so if I need to, I can pick her brain about what kids think/do/talk about these days.

And wouldn't you know last night as I was trying to fall alseep not one but 2 ideas came to mind that would be suitable for boys!
 

kdbeaar

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Count me in! I'm attempting my first full-length novel, a MG geared for boys. I have a son who's almost 12, so I ask him a lot of questions. I find including today's technology to be really difficult...I barely keep up with Facebook!

I know this question has been asked and answered on this site a million times, but this is a particularly knowledgeable thread so I'll ask again...word count? What do you think is reasonable? 75K to 90K? Less? What's the bare minimum? (Although I tend to err too high rather than too low!)

Thanks!
 

scope

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Having been raised on the streets of New York probably makes my thoughts as a 5-10 year old different than others. When I think back, I can remember many of the family and extended family interpersonal things which seem to have disappeared today. Of course I can vividly remember the dress of the times (male and female) and tons of things that made up the physical environment around me. As far as personal and interpersonal relationships I either remember little, or have little to remember. The one thing that always comes to mind is how avid I was to play sports and games in the streets (it consumed my life,) and the 5-6 close friends with whom I interacted. The time, the setting, the environment, the attitudes, how children of all ages and adults lived at the time (late 1950's-1960's) is dramatically different than today, and I find there are times when it's useful for my writing and ideas for what to write.
 

RoseColoredSkies

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KD - sometimes manuscripts can be longer than the general guidelines I listed before. However for an unpublished author, it's better to stay between the guidelines (you could probably do alright with going to 50k for an MG novel) I can also depend on genre.
 

MissKris

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KD - sometimes manuscripts can be longer than the general guidelines I listed before. However for an unpublished author, it's better to stay between the guidelines (you could probably do alright with going to 50k for an MG novel) I can also depend on genre.
This is always a good guideline for new authors. Remember, MG readers (generally) have a much shorter attention span than their YA counterparts. Words are at a premium, so be sure to use words you really, really need and cut out everything else. Don't get me wrong, there are some MG readers that like a challenge - I read Little Women in fourth grade and loved it. But that's the exception. I've heard lots of stories about kids who won't even glance at a book that looks "too wide."
 
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Amarie

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Word count depends on many things. I wouldn't go to 90K if I were you, but at this point I suggest you just get a complete draft done, and if it's long, decide either if it can be shortened, or think about whether the story works better as YA. MG fantasy can run up a higher word count. My contract for my book, which is not fantasy, was for a 50K manuscript, though after all the edits, it came down to 45K.
 

MsJudy

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I've given up on MG. It's a great genre, and I do enjoy reading it, but I just don't think I can cut it as a writer for this group. After writing three novels in as many years, I'm still nowhere nearer to breaking in. Fiction never has been kind to me.

Hedge, I'm sorry to hear that. But this is what I've found to be true: If you're able to quit, then do it. If it's what you really want to do, though, the voices in your head aren't going to let you quit. Then you just have to keep working on it, learning a little more with each book.

FWIW, I'm on at least book number three. If we count the ones that I abandoned in the middle or after the first draft, then we're talking at least 5. No contracts yet, but I know this is what I want to do.

I tried quitting. It made me crazy. I've decided, sure, I'd love to be published, but if I have to make do with not-crazy, then I'm happy.
 

chocowrites

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All this talk of word counts in making me nervous *shields eyes from 75k MS*
Maybe I should do a little cutting...
 

MsJudy

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Re: trying to remember what it was like for you back then: Yeah, that's an important piece. But it's not about you. It's about the story. Unless your story is something of a memoir, who you were back then doesn't really matter. What matters is the act of imagining yourself into the mind of the character you're creating.

I'm a girl. I was a nerdy, bookish girl. In high school, I actually took a book with me to parties in case I got bored. Which I usually did.

So, how do I write from the POV of an active, modern boy? Or a boy trapped in the body of a raccoon? Or an outgoing girl, for that matter?

Two things: Imagination. And observation.

Scope is so right. You have to find ways to be around kids, listen to kids, pay attention to how they think. I have an advantage, because as a teacher I've spent the last twenty years trying to figure out why the hell kids do the things they do.

(Sorry, sweetheart, we don't lick the furniture in first grade... Please put your shirt back on, honey... Yes, that's a very nice spider. Now maybe we should put it back where you found it?)

I remember watching a short film on Japanese anime master Hayao Miyazaki. He spent one entire afternoon at the train station, just sketching the way women's skirts moved when they walked. That's the kind of attention to detail that we need. When you really, really, really pay attention to the world around you, the voice gets easier. You can start to think like the kids you're trying to write for.
 

timp67

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You might find that you haven't quit, really, you've just put the endeavor aside.

Then, when you least expect it, you might get an irresistible idea and run with it! :)
 

MsJudy

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Hey, something Smish said on another thread made me come back and add this here:

If you don't have access to a lot of kids you can talk to, you absolutely HAVE to watch children's television. I don't mean Dora and Diego, the stuff written by Grown-Ups to Teach Things to young children. *gag*

I mean sit-coms and superhero cartoons. Sit-coms (Zack and Cody, Drake and Josh, iCarly) will give you the rhythm and humor that modern kids are using. Cartoons will give you the pacing and the adventure. I especially love the Japanese ones- though we all want to smack Cartoon Network for dropping Naruto! There isn't a kid in the US now who hasn't watched an episode of Pokemon, I bet.
 

Smish

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Hey, something Smish said on another thread made me come back and add this here:

If you don't have access to a lot of kids you can talk to, you absolutely HAVE to watch children's television. I don't mean Dora and Diego, the stuff written by Grown-Ups to Teach Things to young children. *gag*

I mean sit-coms and superhero cartoons. Sit-coms (Zack and Cody, Drake and Josh, iCarly) will give you the rhythm and humor that modern kids are using. Cartoons will give you the pacing and the adventure. I especially love the Japanese ones- though we all want to smack Cartoon Network for dropping Naruto! There isn't a kid in the US now who hasn't watched an episode of Pokemon, I bet.

Yep, we can watch the fun stuff and say it's research. A kid may only get to watch tv after he finishes his homework; we can get away with saying it is our homework. :)