All Things Middle Grade

timp67 said:

I'm reading The Mysterious Benedict Society and the Perilous Journey, and I'm enjoying the characters and adventure just as much as the first book. But it's kind of odd how the premise hinges on how smart the kids are...but Sticky "recalls" information his photographic mind has recorded, and Constance just "knows" things via ESP or whatever. Have you guys read these books? What do you think?

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I loved the first book! It was great fun. They aren't supposed to all be super smart. They're supposed to all have extreme strengths/abilities: Reynie is the only really intellectually smart one. Constance is super smart at recognizing patterns, but [I don't want to give a spoiler but she has a secret, and I'm not sure if the second book reveals it right away]. She doesn't have ESP. She does have the power of being extremely stubborn too Sticky has his super memory, Kate is brave and very smart at solving physical puzzles and fixing stuff. I'm looking forward to reading the second book because I love anything nautical!

Everytime I look at this thread, my reading list grows! I haven't read it yet, but I'll move it up the list and give it a go. Sounds like a fun premise.

Hi everyone - new here ..... for you published authors - did you guys get an agent or just go about it the old fashioned way? Any tips to actually getting on a desk?

Thanks for the help!

FossilWriter said:

Hi everyone - new here ..... for you published authors - did you guys get an agent or just go about it the old fashioned way? Any tips to actually getting on a desk?

Thanks for the help!

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Hey Fossil--keep reading all these threads. There are other places where folks share their good news about how they got where they are. And most of the published or soon-to-be-published authors have links in their signatures. Click on those and you'll go to their websites/blogs. They all have some sort of post about How I Became So Wonderful.

Be sure to read the Query section of Share Your Work. The tips to getting an agent to read your work are over there.

But the biggest tip of all: Write a really good book that agents/editors think they can sell. There isn't really any other magic secret.

FossilWriter said:

Hi everyone - new here ..... for you published authors - did you guys get an agent or just go about it the old fashioned way? Any tips to actually getting on a desk?

Thanks for the help!

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I'd also add just read, read, read what's out there, particularly what's been published in the last few years. I've been thrilled to see how many more types of books there are for middle grade and young YA readers compared to when I was a kid back in the dark ages.

Apologies if this has been covered ad nauseum...

I have an adventure book that I wrote that has a 15-year old main character. Knowing that the rule says that kids read up not down, could this be upper-MG?

Thanks and if I need to be directed to a thread that I couldn't find, I'll be glad to admit I'm an idiot when it comes to searching.

Hi Todd! Obviously there's always exceptions, but in general I'd say a 15 year old protagonist makes that YA. Upper MG protags usually average around 13 years old (I think).

Todd,

If you could drop the age to 14, you'd be fine for MG. The MC in the Alex Rider series is 14 and those books are MG, even though there is some crossover appeal to young teens.

Thanks! That's what I thought Amarie.

A lot of it will also depend on the content and tone.

Hi everyone , when I check out the share your work section, I don't see one just for MG...how does one usually look for betas for an MG WIP?

Thanks in advance!

There isn't an MG share your work section. We use the Children's section for both PBs and MG.

There is a thread all about looking for betas--but not all the kids' writers check it often. So here's what I did while I was looking: I posted in the Looking for Betas section, then I put a link to that in my signature line so that everything I posted here in the kids' section would have it. I ended up with 3 fabulous betas that way.

JudScotKev said:

There isn't an MG share your work section. We use the Children's section for both PBs and MG.

There is a thread all about looking for betas--but not all the kids' writers check it often. So here's what I did while I was looking: I posted in the Looking for Betas section, then I put a link to that in my signature line so that everything I posted here in the kids' section would have it. I ended up with 3 fabulous betas that way.

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I've often wondered about betas. Do they tend to be writers themselves or mostly avid readers? What is the motivation that would drive someone to invest their time in reading and critiquing a stranger's complete novel? Is it a reciprocal process--you beta mine and I'll beta yours? Or do betas feel the process helps them with their own writing? Just curious how the whole thing works.

Hedgetrimmer - I wondered the same thing when I tried to find a beta for the first time. Why would someone spend their time doing such a thing?

Then I did it for someone else, and I realized why - it really is just as beneficial to the beta. Reading critically is so different from reading for pleasure, and trying to articulate just what you find problematic about a story makes you turn that critical eye on your own writing. Also, it's fun (for me, at least) to see what other writers are doing - so much creativity out there!

I believe most betas you'll find on AW, at least, are both writers and readers, but that's just from what I've seen. And the process can be reciprocal, but doesn't need to be so long as you're both clear on what you're going to do from the beginning.

That makes sense, as I've found that reading and critiquing stuff in SYW gives me a clearer perspective of what may not be working in my own writing.

Exactly. I would say that in my process of learning how to write, it breaks down kind of like this:

I learned a little bit from reading good literature my whole life. But in the beginning, my skills weren't strong enough for me to really understand how those writers did what they did.

So I started reading books on the craft of writing. That helped quite a bit with my weakest areas, especially plotting.

I went to conferences and got brief critiques from agents and editors. That helped a little bit. They boosted my confidence that I was on the right track. Then I still got rejected, and the confidence got shot out of the water. Not the most productive way to learn.

I worked with a writing coach. He was great, took my writing to a much deeper level, but I can't afford that option as a regular thing.

And I work with beta readers/critique partners. We exchange work in short sections or whole books, and give each other feedback. And that's what has taught me the most, I think. They catch things I'm not even aware of, and ask the big questions that lead me to take on major plot revisions. I try to do the same for them.

I try to approach every critique from the mindset that This story has the potential to be good. Even if it sucks. That way, I come it as a problem to be solved. Why isn't this working for me? What would I try if it were my story? How could this be even better?

What's really exciting is when someone you work with actually does a true revision. Not a tweak of this word for that word, but a genuine dig-in-and-make-the-changes revision. And suddenly the story comes to life! Then you start to understand what is effective and what isn't.

Critiquing other people is also a great way to get over writer's block. For example, if I read someone's piece and realize they aren't using enough sensory detail, I'll go back to the last chapter I wrote and read it to see if I made the same mistake. That gets me over the hump of what to work on next, the words get flowing and pretty soon I'm deep into my own story.

That's one of the reasons why I check in at this site every day. It pushes me to stay focused on my own writing no matter what.

Thanks for the inspiration JudScotKev. I'm not yet comfortable with critiquing. I know what I like and what I don't like, but can't tell you why. I'll have to dive in and see if your technique works for me. Hopefully, I'll learn a bit while helping someone out. Sounds like a good system.

Thanks, Judy. I'll have to give more thought to maybe participating.

If you're nervous, ask people to do a Sandwich: Tell you something they like, give a constructive suggestion, tell another thing they like. Otherwise we can easily talk ourselves out of keeping the parts that are good, because everyone gets too focused on the parts that could be better.

And of course it helps to develop a sense of trust. That's why a good beta reader or a crit group is so important. A one-time, 15-minute conference crit from a stranger might lead you down the wrong path, because you don't have a chance to develop the conversation. Working with the same people over time gives everyone the chance to see the Big Picture.

What is really important is to be sure that the suggestions will help you write the book you want to write. Some people get so excited about where they would take your story if it were theirs, that they forget you might not want to go there.

I am by nature very stubborn, so I don't get sucked into that too easily. But I have seen it happen.

Hey everyone! I'm a middle grade writer (with a children's book published by Mirror Publishing). I'm so happy to be a part of the MG thread!
I'm done with my first MG book (asking for betas in the beta thread). I'm sure it crud compared to everyone else's but I'm proud of myself for doing it.
I've been reading a ton of MG though I still think Judy Blume stays as my favorite.
Does anyone know of a good online critique circle? Does anyone have any books published that I can buy?

Oh and one more thing! I teach 7th graders and the theory about them only reading up is wrong in certain areas. Quite a few of my kids read at a 2.5-4.5 range on accelerated reader. Almost none of them are at grade level equivalent (and they are neither special day class nor are they RSP). So keep writing books for kids like these so they can read something at their grade level after practice!

maracalone, welcome to AW! Always nice to have a fresh new face to pick on...I mean, get to know.

Did you bring brownies?

Seriously, though... I totally agree with you about middle school kids who still read at a lower level. From what I see (teaching elementary), kids start to divide into 2 groups very early on. There are the Love-to-read kids, and they can handle whatever you throw at them. Eragon, Jonathan Stroud, Phillip Pullman, no vocabulary is too hard.

But then there are the Do-I-have-to? kids. And they need all the help they can get. But they will read. They just need books that are short, funny and easier to read. That's why I wish publishers weren't getting to attached to the 30K+ length. We need more books like The Whipping Boy or Stone Fox or Sarah, Plain and Tall that have engaging stories appropriate for older kids but don't weigh a frickin' ton.

I completely agree with you JudScotKev! I just love those "I don't want to and you can't make me" types. They're the ones who pick up the books titled Bus and then take the test. Though I have had quite a bit of luck with the Bluford Series books. However, some of the kids (I teach inner city) get annoyed by the series. They always ask if the only thing people will write for them are books on guns and gangs...lol!
And, no, I didn't bring brownies! I do have leftover cupcakes though!

maracalone said:

Oh and one more thing! I teach 7th graders and the theory about them only reading up is wrong in certain areas. Quite a few of my kids read at a 2.5-4.5 range on accelerated reader. Almost none of them are at grade level equivalent (and they are neither special day class nor are they RSP). So keep writing books for kids like these so they can read something at their grade level after practice!

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I could be wrong, but I think we're talking about two different things here. Or, well, sort of the same thing, but from different directions!

When I've read about kids preferring to "read up" it's always referred to kids generally preferring to read about characters their age or a couple years older rather than characters that are younger than they are. And you brought up hi/lo books (high interest/low vocabulary) which are meant to have content that's interesting and relevant to kids of a certain age, but written at a somewhat easier reading level.

I agree with you that these kinds of books are always needed!

Your other post about books about gangs/guns reminds me of when I worked as an assistant at an inner city school and many of the students were asking for "books about real stuff." When I asked them to elaborate, they'd tell me about a book they read where a girl dated a guy who sold heroin and then she got pregnant, and then he got shot and killed, etc. It wasn't the answer I was expecting to "what kind of real stuff?"

But yeah, they also would come in looking for books that were at a high enough level to satisfy their teacher's requirements, but also had a short enough page count to not be intimidating. Often the teachers would say it has to be 100 pages or more, but it was sometimes hard to find shorter MG for them that they were interested in, so I totally get where you're coming from with that.