All Things Middle Grade

Okay, I headed over the SYW kids and laid my first chapter down. We'll see how it goes. Like I say, YA has pretty much been my thing. I'm interested in the differences between the two or how wide the gap may or may not be.

Right now, I'm writing a novel for young adults, but I'm definitely interested in writing for MG.

I got some very valuable feedback on SYW. It was pretty much dead-on, all of it. TP, thanks for all those observations. And thanks, remister for calling me on word choice and redundancy. I thought for sure I was in third limited. I'll recheck to see that I'm not straying out of it.

Just a quick question here. I have a 1,300 word non-fiction science story entitled, The Mysteries of the La Brea Tar Pits. Now I thought I was in the realm of a picture book, which I am certainly not, which is about 500 words or so long. Then what do I have here? Is this what they call a chapter book? If not, what might this be? It's in the tone of the picture book generation--an easy read.

At my son's urging, I started a Middle Grade book, but I got lost somewhere in the middle.

He really wants me to go back and finish it, so I might have to do that after I get my current adult novel off to the editor.

triceretops - glad we could be of help! When it comes to third limited, you are basically telling the story from one character's point of view, it's almost like writing in first person. There were some things in you first chapter, descriptions of other characters, that were done in such a way that the main character wouldn't think that/know that about them. Mostly though, when one is just going about one's day to day life one doesn't narrate one's life as, "Triceretops, the leader of their gang, was walking down the street in front." That's too distant. You wouldn't think that about yourself. At most you'd think, "Triceretops had decided he was the leader, and looking around as the others followed him he could tell they agreed." See the difference? Maybe try writing the chapter in first person just to see how that would change the perspective and then make it third limited after that?

As to your other story, again this isn't something someone can just answer without reading it. Also non-fiction is a totally different beast. I don't know it very well but I don't think it has the same categories. Like I would think short factual books that are used to teach kids something aren't called "chapter books". Might be time to do some research about writing non-fiction for kids.

It makes sense, Toothpaste. I like your Narnia example, because the kids all seem to want a better life, kind of an escape from their present situation. I'd like to weave in some flaws in my character's lives that might even make them somewhat rebellious and longing for a change. I think that would provide the motivation to do something daring or forbidden. In chapter two, I have the kids reluctant to climb the bow, thinking that they made a mistake--however, now, I believe they will not show that negative side. Something will compel each and everyone of them for a different reason. There should be flaws the reader can identify with and understand.

I still think you need to take your time. I don't think they should even consider climbing until chapter three. I think chapter 1 we need to get to know Trevor outside of his friend group. I think we need to see what life is like in 1940s America during the war, I think we need so much more than just some kids playing with a rocket. He can have an experience at the end of the chapter. Maybe he sees the old man or something. How about his? How about they play with the rocket and it doesn't work for some reason and they are annoyed and each go home agreeing to meet up tomorrow to try again. This gives us the rocket intro but then allows us to follow Trevor home and learn more about him.

In general I really think you're rushing this too much. And again, if it's third limited you're going to find it a challenge to show what compels each character to climb in one chapter. And the kids having a conversation explaining to each other why they are doing it is just too much exposition at once. Think of it this way instead: make Trevor your anchor. We see his life, we are shown why he'd want to climb a rainbow. And then as we read the story we slowly learn through again being shown why the others did it. Don't feel this obligation to give us all the exposition at once. Part of the story can be the slow revealing of why each kid went on the adventure.

Try really hard to see this as any other book, as a YA, as Adult. And please please read some contemporary MGs.

I'm about halfway done with an MG book that I started for NaNoWriMo and things are going great. This is the first time I've written something where I really felt 'I'm actually going to finish this and it actually might be good!' I'm planning on putting a few segments up in SYW for evaluation and I'll also be looking for a beta/critique trade once the MS is done.

In other MG news The School for Good and Evil is incredible and is my new favorite contemporary MG novel. By far the best I've read so far since I started absorbing as much of the genre as possible to get some insight. It's so intelligent and emotional and I think it's a great example of how mature a story for kids can be. It seriously floored me and made me excited to read more new MG series to see what else is out there.

Thanks, TP. I was aiming waaaay too much on first chapter hook. When agents and editors concentrate so much on rejecting manuscripts because they didn't "grab in the first pages", that can lead us astray, and going after action openers or trauma-like circumstances. If I can get into my MC, Trevor, I'll be able to hook just from there and then provide a good setup. However, there is a general rule to "sprinkle" character development and not load the reader down so early on. I need to find that balance between internal and external development. Not an easy task, but one that will take some time and thought. Meanwhile, I go in search of contemp MGs and see what's up.

Sounds like you have a good plan! And just remember grabbing within the first few pages is about being compelling, not about MUST GET ALL THE EXCITING PLOT STUFFS RIGHT NOW. Be interesting. Make Trevor interesting. And yes of course, make sure we have a sense of the adventure to come, where things are going. But slow and steady. Slow and steady .

Enjoy the book reading!!

Thanks. I've been reading a lot of opening chapters of MGs. Also got a copy of The Loser's List by H. N. Kewit--strange format here. I'm working very slow and seeing how things fit in this first chapter. Chapter 2 will be part of chapter one--hopefully, a seamless merge. Not going to hurry the start of the adventure. I'm think about some hints and red herrings to use later.

And I meant to say, it's great to see so many writers involved in or finishing up their MGs. I'm not so alone, when you consider the YA threads are traffic jams.

The thing is MG is kind of exploding of late. It's like we spent 10 years focusing all our energy on YAs and then suddenly people started to remember that MG was kind of awesome. Not sure how it happened, but I know I've personally seen a lot more people talking about it, a lot more agents looking for it, and just generally being more popular. So I think you will see more and more writers talking about it online etc. Quite honestly, I hope it doesn't become quite as saturated as YA, but I do like that there's a bit more attention being paid to it .

Hi there! I just joined Absolute Write today. I've written an MG Magical Realism novel. Been querying. Been rejected. Plugging onward. Anyway, I started reading A Snicker of Magic and it's so good it's depressing. Makes me want to throw away my whole manuscript and join the circus. Ha. Kidding. I think.

Anyway, cool to be here.

Hi, Shaka. Welcome aboard. I've been a member here for a long time but I'm new to the MG arena. Good on you for finishing an MG and getting it out there. Don't get discouraged and try to learn from any solid rejections. Forge ahead.

Toothpaste, I was just thinking that today. I mean I really jumped on the YA bandwagon (for years) and went with the huge tidal wave, along with thousands of others. I can't tell you exactly why I ignored MG altogether. I would say I thought it to be inferior and not worth the effort--too "kiddy." Of course, I knew nothing but nothing at all about it--who was publishing it, where and why. I'll lay you odds that I wasn't the only one to think these thoughts. That's because we never gave it a chance. Ya see, MG, I learned, was not a dumbed down YA. It had a voice of its own. I reflected on the first Harry Potter books, and knew for certain they qualified as MG. Then I started hearing publishers and agents yearning for strong MG tales, and this has been in the last 18 months, from my observations. Although it's always been there. Almost like it was hiding and waiting to be discovered. I think now it's going to come around full circle and gain some much deserved ground. I can't tell you if I'll be inside this swell, but I'd like to be.

Hi Shakabry! Welcome! And yay MG! Question: have you been getting any full requests at all? If not that's actually good news, it means that your query needs tweaking, not necessarily the entire novel . Once you have 50 posts you can post your query in the Share Your Work section of AW.

triceretops - oh there is definitely bias against MG, and I think it actually got worse as YA became huge (which was actually around 10 years ago). YA was considered cool edgy dark, MG was seen a baby-ish. Of course the funny thing is before YA got massive two of the biggest series were MG - Harry Potter which started out MG and its popularity was huge with the first three books, and A Series of Unfortunate Events which is solidly MG the entire way. Also let's not forget The Spiderwick Chronicles. But then TWILIGHT happened and everything changed.

I'm very happy people are excited once more about MG, and are starting to realise what we MG authors have known for a while: that MG can be just as cool edgy and dark as YA. But even more than that, there's more space for humour, whimsy and absurdity. And even hope.

(this of course is not me saying MG is BETTER than YA - as a YA author too that would be weird of me - just that it's just as good and there are unique benefits to the genre as well)

Hi Toothpaste. No, I haven't received any full MS requests, or partials. Though I'm guessing at 40K words, requests for partials are few and far between. At any rate, I still have a handful of queries out that I expect I won't hear back on til after the holidays at this point. What I could really use is a beta reader. A friend of mine read it and gave some helpful notes. I edited the MS accordingly. And now he says it's great. Of course he would, though. Friends are friends, right?

I looked at the Beta Readers thread and reached out to a couple people. Maybe something will come of that.

Before this MG book, I co-wrote a YA novel. That was a whole other experience. That one never found an agent, not for lack of trying. Anyway....

Ho hum, pass the run.

- - - Updated - - -

Is there a way to get email notifications when people reply on threads?

40K is perfectly respectable for MG.

Cyia said:

40K is perfectly respectable for MG.

Click to expand...

Right, I only meant that at 40k, why would an agent bother with a partial when the full isn't that big to begin with.

I still think it's worth posting the query itself, not just finding someone to beta read the book. Especially if you aren't getting full requests. That means the issue is your query, at least at this stage in the game. Once you get up to 50 posts, as I said, you can post it here and people can take a look. It really doesn't matter how awesome the book itself is if the query isn't written effectively. Which, again, is good news! It's way easier to edit a query than an entire novel

To receive notifications: click on "go advanced" under the box in which you write replies then there should be some options on that page for getting notified about others posting in a thread etc.

Setting notifications

Cool beans, Toothpaste. I just selected "subscribe to this thread and notify me of changes." Guessing that's right since there aren't many other options. Thanks!

As to my query - it starts off saying such truisms about how I am the greatest writer of all time and I'm so pretty I'm so pretty and how any agent would be lucky to have me and my earth shattering book. Of course that comes directly after my rockstar salutation of "Dear sir,".

The particulars of the story are mentioned briefly but if they want to make the bling blang, they'll sign me post haste. Actually, that's pretty good, I'm a gunna add that.

Could I sound you folks out for some opinions?

I'm writing an MG fantasy where magical creatures help kids cook for big cooking competitions. Originally I was going to call the talking, magical animals 'Wilds' and just have the kids be 'Chefs' but now I'm starting to think it'd be better to change both. 'Wilds' seems both generic and also misleading, since those are animals who have eaten magical food and can now talk and have human personalities (thus, pretty much the opposite of wild). Plus there are Monsters in the book and I figure it'd be pretty easy to get Wilds and Monsters confused.

As for what to call the kids who cook; I want to really drive home that cooking, in the fantasy world of the book, can literally be magical and is something a whole society is based on. I want to give the people who cook a cool, fantastic title to show them as the 'wizards' of the cooking world.

Anyway for the talking animals that help the kids I'm leaning toward either Friand or Epicure. Both of these are terms for gourmets; folks who appreciate the art of good food. Friand is kind of archaic/obscure but I like it because it's sort of like friend? And it's one of those 'two-syllable words with the emphasis on the first syllable' that sound so nice in titles (see Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles). On the other hand, Epicure has Cure in it which gives it a sort of positive connotation and I could even shorten it to 'Cure' for in-universe slang. I'm also still looking for other alternatives.

For the magical chef kids I was playing around with Gastronomers? Which carries the intended meaning but man for some reason whenever I look at that word or say it in my head it just doesn't sound right. But I'm not the intended audience for the book so maybe they would like it? I was also thinking of something like Gourmancer but I can just imagine someone saying it 'gore-mancer' and everyone assuming my book is some kind of gross horror story.

I'm still only halfway done with the rough draft of the novel so I've got plenty of time to figure this out before the final draft, so I just wanted to maybe get a little discussion on what terms might be best to use.

I suggest going with "Epicure"; "Friand" could too easily be mistaken as a typo for "Friend", and cost you a lot of time explaining to editors and proofreaders.