All Things Middle Grade

Sage

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The chapters are variable lengths. There are scene breaks within them, but not all of those scene breaks make good chapter breaks.
 

Keith Robinson

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I've started working on my outline and the framework might be 10 chapters at 2,500 to 3,000 words a chapter. Too long for a single chapter? Before I really get going I want to make sure I start off on the correct foot.

Speaking as someone who wrote what turned out to be a series of 100K MG novels (self-pubbed), I can tell you that I've only ever had one "complaint" about 22 chapters that average as much as 4500 words! -- but I would still strongly suggest keeping them below 3000 tops, if not shorter. You said 2500-3000 words, and that sounds good, but you said 10 chapters which doesn't sound like many, so maybe go shorter still and have maybe 15 chapters?

I don't know if MG readers have a shorter or longer attention span that older readers, but regardless of that, even I prefer chapters that are short and punchy. I often think, "Hmm, have I got time to read a bit? Let's see, how long is this next chapter...? Oh crap, no, way too long."

But with short chapters you can easily read 2-3 if you have time, or just one if you're in a hurry.

Also, my experience with writing my current MG novel (62K total) is that shorter chapters make me far less likely to "waffle" -- ie, I feel more restricted so I write more concisely, and that's a good thing. With the longer chapters, I felt comfortable spreading out knowing that I still have several pages to go before I need to wrap up... and while I'm proud of my 100K books, I even more proud of my punchier shorter book! :)
 

timp67

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It's time to break out the welcome mat for the new folks! :)
welcomemat.jpg
 

elissacruz

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(Oh, hi, Elissa! Fancy seeing you here.)

Yes, well, apparently I have way too much time on my hands. That or I am perfecting this procrastinating-on-the-writing thing. ;) But, HI YOU! It's been awhile since we virtually hung out together. So it's good to see you come out of lurkdom here. I just did the same thing, like last month. Though I'm still mostly lurking...
 

Sage

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So this new editing method I'm trying is really helping me tighten this book. I know that for all books, but especially as your target audience gets younger, you need to have something going on all the time. I tend to slow down the story at times with introspection...too much at times.

I saw this blog post: http://cristinterrill.com/2010/11/07/revising-by-color/ that suggested going through and coloring your text according to whether it's action, dialogue, description, or introspection. (Haha, I just reread, and that's not exactly the categories that are suggested in that blog post, but those are what I did)

I printed out the 2nd draft and highlighted because my netbook's touch pad would have made doing it on the computer a nightmare. The only problem is that I won't be able to see the end result, color-coding-wise, unless I do it all over again from scratch later. But I think it does make it easier to do actual edits.

Anyway, I'm finding big chunks of world- and character-building introspection that probably doesn't actually need to be there, and cutting out everything from a few words to half a (long) paragraph here and there. I even killed some darlings. I know. For some reason, tightening a novel makes me feel so productive, even though I've gotten more lax about it over the years.

Anyway, I thought I shared, since pacing is so important for MG.
 

heza

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It's time to break out the welcome mat for the new folks! :)
welcomemat.jpg

That's the exact mat I have at my house. What were you doing at my house, Timp? :Wha:

I have a quick question about character ages vs. audience age.

Kids read up, so if I have a core group of characters ages 10 (MC#1), 12 (MC#2), 12, and 14, where does that put the age range of my most likely audience? I'm suddenly afraid I'm looking at 7-10 year olds, and that's probably too young for my story.
 

elissacruz

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That's the exact mat I have at my house. What were you doing at my house, Timp? :Wha:

I have a quick question about character ages vs. audience age.

Kids read up, so if I have a core group of characters ages 10 (MC#1), 12 (MC#2), 12, and 14, where does that put the age range of my most likely audience? I'm suddenly afraid I'm looking at 7-10 year olds, and that's probably too young for my story.

You know, it's not just characters and their ages that decide the target audience of your group. There is a huge difference in the way 8yos think as opposed to 12yos. So, since your core group of characters are all over the map (MG-wise), I suppose it depends on how the book feels. Does it feel like it targets 8-10yos? Or does it feel more like something the 12-13yos would identify with?

Once you decide who you are writing for, then you can always spend more time with the characters who are on the older side of your audience. For example, if you are targeting older MGers, then you might find yourself spending more time writing scenes where the 14yo is in charge. Or, if you choose the younger crowd, your 10yo and 12yo can be the ones you focus on, with the older kids acting as mentors or guides.

Make sense?
 

heza

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You know, it's not just characters and their ages that decide the target audience of your group. There is a huge difference in the way 8yos think as opposed to 12yos. So, since your core group of characters are all over the map (MG-wise), I suppose it depends on how the book feels. Does it feel like it targets 8-10yos? Or does it feel more like something the 12-13yos would identify with?

Once you decide who you are writing for, then you can always spend more time with the characters who are on the older side of your audience. For example, if you are targeting older MGers, then you might find yourself spending more time writing scenes where the 14yo is in charge. Or, if you choose the younger crowd, your 10yo and 12yo can be the ones you focus on, with the older kids acting as mentors or guides.

Make sense?


Yeah... Looks like the book is a no-go. Thanks.
 

Nikki

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I dunno, y'all. I wrote a book with a 12 y.o. MC, then my editor changed the age to 11. But the themes are... pretty dark. Cannibalism, witchcraft, the usual MG fare. ;)
Is she thinking it's more suitable for the 7-10 y.o. crowd? Or is that "kids read down, not up" thing not exactly true?
I'll let you know next August.
 

heza

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I guess I could up the ages to 12, 13, 13, and 14. I feel like that throws off the whole dynamic, though, and I might as well just up them to 15, 16, 16, and 17 and go YA instead.

But I can't just focus on the older characters--they aren't the main characters, so that wouldn't even be the right story. And if the oldest character is in charge, then the story ends very quickly with the good guys losing.
 

elissacruz

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You know, heza, I say write the book anyway. Don't worry about the characters' ages. Just write THE BEST BOOK YOU CAN. Let agents/editors figure out where to place it.

Like Nikki pointed out, not every "rule" in his business is followed to the letter. So don't let those rules stop you from writing the book you want to write.
 

heza

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You're probably right. The best book will be upper MG with characters aged 10-14. But drastically simplifying the plot for young readers or making the characters older would significantly screw the story up, I'm afraid. Now, whether that shoots me in the foot as far as who'll pick it up in a store or whether an editor would even touch it... who knows. I guess if no one will print it, I can always self pub or try to sell it later after I've proven myself with something more categorical.
 

MsJudy

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Look at a book like The Penderwicks. Because it's about a family of girls, there's quite a range. Even a few chapters from the perspective of Batty, the preschooler! Kids still read it. Junie B. Jones is a kinder/first grader, but her books are read by 2nd and 3rd graders. They love being old enough to know how wrong she is about things!

So, yeah. If the story is good, you can make it work. Or change the ages later if you have to. But in the meantime, just focus on the story and make it great.
 

jtrylch13

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So this new editing method I'm trying is really helping me tighten this book. I know that for all books, but especially as your target audience gets younger, you need to have something going on all the time. I tend to slow down the story at times with introspection...too much at times.

I saw this blog post: http://cristinterrill.com/2010/11/07/revising-by-color/ that suggested going through and coloring your text according to whether it's action, dialogue, description, or introspection. (Haha, I just reread, and that's not exactly the categories that are suggested in that blog post, but those are what I did)

I printed out the 2nd draft and highlighted because my netbook's touch pad would have made doing it on the computer a nightmare. The only problem is that I won't be able to see the end result, color-coding-wise, unless I do it all over again from scratch later. But I think it does make it easier to do actual edits.

Anyway, I'm finding big chunks of world- and character-building introspection that probably doesn't actually need to be there, and cutting out everything from a few words to half a (long) paragraph here and there. I even killed some darlings. I know. For some reason, tightening a novel makes me feel so productive, even though I've gotten more lax about it over the years.

Anyway, I thought I shared, since pacing is so important for MG.


I used a similar method, except I outlined everything in short sentences, but used the colors to differentiate between the threads of my story. It really helped me to see where I concentrated too heavily on one thread and needed to re-organize to keep the pace of the book moving.
 

jtrylch13

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Heza - I agree with ElissaCruz. While it is a good idea to be aware of the "rules" of MG writing, write the book that is inside of you. Plenty of debut authors have broken "the rules" and that is probably what got them published. Even if your WIP doesn't end up published, it's all a learning experience. Think of it as on-the-job-training. Unpaid!
 

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I'm still editing my griffin story, but I do have another book in the works with a twelve year old girl who ends up on an Indiana Jones type adventure. Anyone else have something they're working on?
 

timp67

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I've written my first book with magic in it. Waiting to hear what the powers that be think of it. Fingers crossed! :)
 

Sage

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Good luck, timp

My MG editing has slowed down because it's way too tempting to read chapter books and low MG instead ;)
 

timp67

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Thanks, guys! There are no guarantees, but I'll just keep writing no matter what happens. :)
 

Laura J

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Good luck, I love magical stories. I'm working on my first MG novel, first novel ever. It is about a set of twins with special gift. Boarding school, multidemenstional travel and some unique magic, plus a really cool candy shop. Someone asked me why stories take place at boarding school. I think it is because kids can't have amazing adventures with their parents around.