All Things Middle Grade

sissybaby

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Is that your name, Sissy? My daughter is named Cordelia!


Joy - nope, sorry, my real name is Sissybaby. But I wanted a pen name for my blog, and Elsie Dinsmore was a character I fell in love with as a kid. I also love the name Cordelia, so I just combined them. Those names conjure up happy times and smiles for me.

And I don't know if I could think of Smish as anyone else.
 

MsJudy

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My Wip (MG adventure) centers around a camp for kids; the campers are separated into teams. I really want the teams (boys and girls - 12 - 15 year olds) to sleep in the same cabins. They have competitions that happen at a drop of a hat (all hours), and they need to react together. Showers and changing areas are all out of the cabin (ETA: and separated, male/female), but is it still just too far out there for that to work?

I've read a couple books where they do this, but those books were based in the future, and so there is an assumption of different social norms.

Thoughts?

I agree with Ruth's suggestion: Have a girls' wing and a boys' wing with a social area separating them. My dorm at UCIrvine was set up that way: womens' rooms on the right, mens' rooms on the left, staircase and social areas in the middle.

As for doing it in MG--the demigod cabins in Rick Riordan's books are all co-ed, aren't they? And I haven't heard anyone complaining about that.
 

Marzipan

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As for doing it in MG--the demigod cabins in Rick Riordan's books are all co-ed, aren't they? And I haven't heard anyone complaining about that.

True and I haven't heard a single person complain about it. I guess it would just be the way you handle it. Rick doesn't mention much about inside the cabins.
 

Cyia

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True and I haven't heard a single person complain about it. I guess it would just be the way you handle it. Rick doesn't mention much about inside the cabins.

They're co-ed, but everyone inside is at least a half sibling (except the one cabin belonging to Hermes' kids who will take in anyone, but still risk another cabin mate being a brother or sister.)

Maybe if you had some two level cabins (we had them at a camp I attended in 6th grade) or something like a duplex with a common room in the middle, it would work for non-related groups of boys and girls.
 

Marzipan

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They're co-ed, but everyone inside is at least a half sibling (except the one cabin belonging to Hermes' kids who will take in anyone, but still risk another cabin mate being a brother or sister.)

Good point. I guess I wasn't thinking straight. By the way, thank you for the blog post on how to make mock covers. I was just reading it.
 

timp67

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This is how Lego marketed to girls in 1981. Wouldn't it be nice if toy companies still marketed to girls this way?

Lego.jpg
 

Morrell

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That's awesome, timp. What a cute kid.

Has anybody tried this site? 750words.com

I thought I might give it a whirl ... not for personal journaling so much, but to brainstorm, toss around character development, worldbuilding ideas, etc. Maybe even to add to my ms--could copy and paste it into my word doc each day.

It gives all sorts of fun stats when you finish an entry. I'm hoping it will add the sort of accountability that I find motivating with NaNo, but with less pressure.
http://750words.com/
 

Britwriter

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I have a question about word count for MG. My completed upper MG novel is at 60,000 words. I have read that this is considered too long and that 50,000 should be the maximum word count. Naturally, I read this just hours after sending off my first batch of carefully researched queries, where I stated that the book is complete at 60,000 words. I'll just have to see what happens with those queries.

Currently I'm working on a version with a target word count of 55,000, which means cutting some description, shortening some paragraphs, but no major alterations to the plot. I also have a way of cutting one chapter, to get closer to the required 50,000, which is a shame as I like the chapter, but it can be done.

My question is whether that very fact of going to 60,000 words is really going to handicap any further queries I send out? Is it better to get to the 50,000 before querying again? Or, go for the middle ground, retain the chapter, and query for 55,000?

I don't know if it is relevant, but I am not a new author, and am well published, but not in MG.

Any insight would be very welcome. :)
 

Smish

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You're fine at 60,000 words. I can't imagine an agent rejecting an upper-MG manuscript based on that word count. Good luck. :Thumbs:
 

Ferret

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Britwriter, what's the genre? If it's science fiction or fantasy, I'd say you're definitely fine, as these genres tend to be longer. But even if it's not either of those, you're probably still okay.

You should trim the novel if you think it will improve it. Otherwise, I suggest you leave it alone, at least until you have an agent or editor telling you differently.
 

playground

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This is how Lego marketed to girls in 1981. Wouldn't it be nice if toy companies still marketed to girls this way?

Lego.jpg



I spent hours with Lego's as a kid making stories and using my imagination to its fullest. It's a shame that imagination isn't centered around toys anymore. I loved making my own worlds and playing out the stories.
 

timp67

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I've had a lot of people correct me that it is actually Lego marketing to parents of girls, but the parents are their proxies, so I think it applies. :)
 

JoyMC

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As the parent of a girl, it definitely applies. And while the advertising may have been targeted more at the parents in the 80's, it's definitely targeted directly TO the kids now. I had the delusion of avoiding the Disney Princesses -- since we weren't doing preschool or watching television with my daughter, I thought it was possible. And yet Disney Princesses found her - in the grocery store, bookstores, the LIBRARIANS set aside Disney Princess books for her.

So. Yeah. That "Lego's for girls" news in the last week was highly irritating to me. (For those who didn't see, they're releasing a new line of pastel Lego's that are "for girls.")
 

MsJudy

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Now, folks, let's go easy on the Back in my day, everything was better chats. I can assure you, kids today still love to play with Legos. And playdough. And puzzles. And blocks. And marbles. And stuffed animals. And crayons.

Oh, and by the way...anybody read the latest issue of Newsweek? A rundown of the latest research on how to make yourself smarter. Number 14: Play video games. Seriously! It quickens your reactions, improves multitasking and reduces hostile feelings after a stressful day.

Number 24: Write by hand. It engages more of the brain than typing does.

And my favorites:

Number 11: Eat dark chocolate.

Number 12: Knit.

No wonder I'm so darned brilliant!
 

JoyMC

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I'm not saying kids don't play with Lego's. I'm saying they do. Girls do. And they don't need to have special pink and purple Lego's made "for girls" to be interested in Lego's.

The critique is of the gender restrictions in marketing techniques, not the activities of children today.
 
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Britwriter

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Britwriter, what's the genre? If it's science fiction or fantasy, I'd say you're definitely fine, as these genres tend to be longer. But even if it's not either of those, you're probably still okay.

You should trim the novel if you think it will improve it. Otherwise, I suggest you leave it alone, at least until you have an agent or editor telling you differently.

It's humor, with a serious story hidden in there, set in middle school. If it were fantasy, the word count wouldn't worry me, but I'm not sure about humor. The closest book I can think of is I am a Genius of Unspeakable Evil, but for a younger age group.

As for improving it, I don't think cutting it improves it, although it can be done. One chapter can be cut, for example, and the story tweaked to still work. But then, a rather hilarious incident gets cut out. That's my dilemma, I guess.

Maybe I shall wait on the first batch of queries I sent out. But the trouble is, if they don't get requests, I'll still not know if it's the word count, the query itself, the subject matter, or just that it wasn't a good fit for those agents. Or, of course, that it sucks. But I don't think it does. ;)
 

Britwriter

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I'm not saying kids don't play with Lego's. I'm saying they do. Girls do. And they don't need to have special pink and purple Lego's made "for girls" to be interested in Lego's.

The critique is of the gender restrictions in marketing techniques, not the activities of children today.

As a mum of girls who most definitely play with Legos, I would say that I was frustrated when they got beyond the basic sets and all kits were based on action movies - often violent ones - that my girls had no interest in, aside from Harry Potter. Fortunately, my girls retained their interest, but it was hard to shop for them. Not that Barbie or Disney Princesses would have worked for them, they wanted something far less gender specific. Thankfully, they then discovered Lego Robotics, where you can be as creative as you like, and they never looked back. We'd run out of Lego kits that they actually wanted to own, because they just didn't like the themes.

My 11 yo daughter actually teaches a Lego Robotics class, and it fascinates me that the balance is something like 24 boys to 6 girls. And two of those girls are my daughters. They were the only girl team to complete the Lego challenge for our County fair last year.

I do wonder if the balance would be different if the themes of the kits beyond Duplo were more generic, or if the themes, when they use them, were more universally appealing.
 

MsJudy

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*sigh*

Another full rejected today. Very nice feedback, but discouraging. Basically, in her opinion the book is too quiet. Which sort of goes along with the first agent, who said the story wasn't compelling enough.

I've waited on sending out more queries to see if I should do more revisions before moving on. But this... would mean a complete and total rewrite to turn the book into something else. And I'm not even sure that I can! Of all my books, this one has what I feel is the strongest plot. My last one, agents said even the premise was too quiet, no point asking for the full.

Before I opened my email, I was going to post a yay-me post, because I've already met my writing goal for vacation and I still have 4 more days. But...the new WIP is just as quiet. So am I wasting my time?

I would love to write something BIG! and EXCITING! and ADVENTUROUS! but it seems like my imagination just doesn't run that way.

So... I guess I'll send out another round of queries and see if other agents feel the same way, that Agatha is too quiet. But in the meantime... I wonder if I should put the current WIP on hold and try to brainstorm something with a more action-oriented plot.

Don't have a clue what that might be, though.
 

timp67

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Judy, I subbed TBWH so long that I stopped counting the Rs after a hundred or so. When my agent called out of the blue to offer rep I thought she was a telemarketer! Never give up, never surrender. :)
 

SheilaJG

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*sigh*

Another full rejected today. Very nice feedback, but discouraging. Basically, in her opinion the book is too quiet. Which sort of goes along with the first agent, who said the story wasn't compelling enough.

But in the meantime... I wonder if I should put the current WIP on hold and try to brainstorm something with a more action-oriented plot.

Don't have a clue what that might be, though.

I'm so sorry, Judy. I will join you on the pouting couch, as I got a full rejection this week, too. It's funny, I have sort of the opposite problem - agents seem to love my premise, but not so much the execution. I was lucky enough to get some great tips for improving it, and an offer to resubmit after I workshop it, but it's a rejection nonetheless.
 

monkeymum

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*sigh*

Another full rejected today. Very nice feedback, but discouraging. Basically, in her opinion the book is too quiet. Which sort of goes along with the first agent, who said the story wasn't compelling enough.

I've waited on sending out more queries to see if I should do more revisions before moving on. But this... would mean a complete and total rewrite to turn the book into something else. And I'm not even sure that I can! Of all my books, this one has what I feel is the strongest plot. My last one, agents said even the premise was too quiet, no point asking for the full.

Before I opened my email, I was going to post a yay-me post, because I've already met my writing goal for vacation and I still have 4 more days. But...the new WIP is just as quiet. So am I wasting my time?

I would love to write something BIG! and EXCITING! and ADVENTUROUS! but it seems like my imagination just doesn't run that way.

So... I guess I'll send out another round of queries and see if other agents feel the same way, that Agatha is too quiet. But in the meantime... I wonder if I should put the current WIP on hold and try to brainstorm something with a more action-oriented plot.

Don't have a clue what that might be, though.

Aww Ms Judy, please don't lose heart. From all the advice and suggestions you give on these boards I find it hard to believe you haven't written a completely beautiful book. I'm sure you know as well as anyone that not every child is into full-on, in your face action. I'd say persevere and give your book every possible chance to meet the right agent.:Hug2:

Ooops Sheila - just noticed your post. Sorry to hear you got a rejection too. Stay positive, it sounds like you're so close!:Hug2:
 
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Smish

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Hugs for Judy and Sheila. You're both very talented writers. You impress the heck out of me. :Hug2:
 

JoyMC

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Before I opened my email, I was going to post a yay-me post, because I've already met my writing goal for vacation and I still have 4 more days. But...the new WIP is just as quiet. So am I wasting my time?

Well since you didn't, I'll write a Yay, you! post. Yay, you! Four more days to totally exceed your writing goals. That's tremendous. Forget quiet - do you love the new WIP? Are you invested? Write what you've got to write and sort out the marketplace later. Thanks goodness Jeanne Birdsall didn't make herself write something BIG! and ADVENTUROUS! because that's what the market wants, right?

Judy, I subbed TBWH so long that I stopped counting the Rs after a hundred or so. When my agent called out of the blue to offer rep I thought she was a telemarketer! Never give up, never surrender. :)

Thanks for sharing that, Timp. It's always encouraging to hear these stories.