All Things Middle Grade

timp67

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Welcome, all!
 

swachski

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Hi toldyouso! :welcome: You had a good head start in learning how to write by being immersed in a store full of books. The best classroom, imo.
 

MsJudy

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Welcome, toldyouso! Like your user name. It's one of my favorite expressions...

When my son was little, I trained him to say, "Mommy is always right."

Then he turned 4...

I wasn't right about anything again until he was 9. But at least then it was about a book. ("You were right, Mom. Maniac Magee is a good book.")

And now my second son is 12. I'm not only never right, I'm officially the most annoying person on the planet. So I savor the I Told You So moments...
 

toldyouso

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Welcome, toldyouso! Like your user name. It's one of my favorite expressions...

When my son was little, I trained him to say, "Mommy is always right."

Then he turned 4...

I wasn't right about anything again until he was 9. But at least then it was about a book. ("You were right, Mom. Maniac Magee is a good book.")

And now my second son is 12. I'm not only never right, I'm officially the most annoying person on the planet. So I savor the I Told You So moments...

awww. Thats adorable. :)
Me too. It has a childlike ner-ner-nee-ner-ner quality I never grow tired of.
@swachski — I'd like to think so! I really miss working in a bookshop. It really made me want to write, even though it was a Borders. There are a couple of children's bookshops around my city that I wish were hiring. I can spend ages in there staring at all the YA and MG/kids books. So shiny.

What's everybody here currently working on?
 

starbeam

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Hello everyone! I may not be new to AW, but I haven't been on much lately, since I struggled to get my last book published back in January. Turns out I didn't even know my own genre. I thought it was YA fantasy, but lo and behold, it was actually MG! I have a new project freshly finished, a story about a griffin, so we'll see where it goes. So glad to see I'm not the only MG writer on AW. I was beginning to get a little worried! :)
 

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I wonder how many people start out in MG realizing that what they thought was YA is really MG.
 

elissacruz

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Hey, lookie! I remembered to visit! See, miracles DO happen! Though I should be working on my WIP and not swiping snickerdoodles when your backs are all turned. (I've been hiding them under the welcome mat for later.)

I've actually heard that a LOT of supposed YA mss. out there are actually MG, Sage. I think the problem lies in the fact that nailing the MG voice is SO HARD TO DO. So a lot of MG books read like YA because the voice isn't quite right (coming from an MG standpoint, that is).
 

timp67

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Adding confusion to the mix is that there's a feeling among a lot of reviewers that YA is "cooler" than MG, so they'll label an MG book YA, like they did to WHEN YOU REACH ME and others.
 

starbeam

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I agree that I have heard quite a few times that YA is a cooler genre, even among my own family. Just as soon as I told them I write MG, they all assumed that I was wrong, because my writing just didn't read to them like a 'little kid's' book. I almost get that feeling that they look down on MG writers, so I was at first cautious to label my story as such. Even when I explained to my sister that the first three or four Harry Potter books were MG, she still didn't believe me! It took almost a quarter of an hour to convince her!

By the way, I have Oreos. Anyone want some? :)
 

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I think MG is totally cool, but I've always been intimidated by the voice. My voice in the past has been pretty YA (including when I wrote my adult novel), and even for this newer book, I'm worried about it.

My first MG novel's voice was very different from my YA voice, so in some ways it's odd to me that a couple of agents told me it was YA.
 

sissybaby

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Pass the oreos, please, starbeam. And I mean the whole bag! They are my absolute favorite cookie, except for Lorna Doones. I usually just keep a huge bag of animal crackers around, though, because I don't need an entire bag of oreos.

I'm so glad this conversation about MG/YA voice is going on right now. I just had an agent ask to see more of my work, and one thing is a novel I wrote a couple of years ago. I think it is definitely MG, but well-meaning people convinced me it should be YA, so that's how I've represented it. But I really am conflicted about it being YA.

So I don't know if I should mention this to the agent when I send it, or just let agent decide. It's too long right now for MG, but I'm more than willing to cut it down if necessary.

Anyone have any suggestions on how to handle this?

Thanks, and thanks for the cookies, num, num.
 

toldyouso

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oooh, oreos! :snoopy:

I am also a little intimidated by the MG voice. It's a hard thing to get right. When I begin a draft I can be all over the place before I make up my mind. Even with my YA novel, I started a little younger but decided very quickly it was more suitable for my purposes with an older narrator.
I hope I'm sustaining the voice with my MG. Some of the feedback I've gotten so far has been encouraging, but I'm waiting to hear back from a friend who's reading the whole thing. I havent had any agent input though. I can see the difference with my writing but I haven't had any 'official' judgement of it.

I suppose the people who think MG isn't as cool as YA aren't thinking about it from the point of view of the actual intended readers? There is a trend now for adults to read YA, so whatever they label YA they can potentially also sell to adults. I don't think my reading of MG just for myself is that typical for those not wanting to write it.
 

Mclesh

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Great conversation! My first book I *thought* was YA and have sent it out as such. The agent who I've been working with on R&Rs thought my MC sounded young for a 16-year-old and suggested I make her a high school freshman instead of sophomore, which I did. To me, the story still seems YA. It's contemporary, but it's I guess not as gritty as a lot of YA. Something she also said that surprised me was the ages of YA readers. She said my audience would start with 10 and 11-year olds, not the 13+ range I thought. (Big surprise to me.)

On the other hand, my next book I wrote as middle grade for boys, and I discovered I really enjoy writing for middle grade.

One thing, I think if an agent's interested, they can help guide whether the book is YA or MG.
 

Ferret

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The last book I wrote was definitely MG, and it's being subbed as such. But the book I'm writing now has a slightly older voice. I think I'd still call it MG, but maybe upper MG or tween--or whatever my agent says I should call it.
 

swachski

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I have a question along the same lines—I feel like I got the voice close for my MG story, but I've had betas comment that some of the words are too sophisticated for MG. It leans more toward upper MG, and my thinking is that more complicated language will help readers stretch their vocabulary. Am I wrong to assume that?
 

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I'm not the best person to answer, as I haven't been published yet, but I do remember some more complicated language toward the end of book one in Fablehaven. Could you give an example of the words your betas say are too complex? Maybe we could judge better from seeing them.
 

Spiral

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I have a question along the same lines—I feel like I got the voice close for my MG story, but I've had betas comment that some of the words are too sophisticated for MG. It leans more toward upper MG, and my thinking is that more complicated language will help readers stretch their vocabulary. Am I wrong to assume that?

It's interesting that you bring that up. I've had the same types of comments too. I usually ask my 10 yo if he knows what the word means. If he says no, I ask him to read the sentance and tell me if he can figure it out. If he can, I figure that it's clear from the context and that it should be okay.
 

timp67

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I've been reading a few MG novels recently that include words that would challenge an adult reader, let alone a kid. My own thinking is that some advanced words are okay, but not enough so that it would start to get wearying. I also appreciate a definition of a sophisticated word when it's worked naturally into the storytelling style, and I imagine a young reader would, too.
 

MsJudy

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I'm not so sure there's a big difference in voice between MG and YA. I mean, the voice of Harry Potter doesn't change that much from book 1 to book 7. What makes the later ones YA is the content--sexual attraction and murder. But even then, the distinction of calling it YA comes from other people, not the author. She's been quoted as saying that she wrote the whole thing for the same group of readers--ages 10-14. (No, I don't remember where I saw that quote.)

I also think the distinction between MG and YA is more important to us--writers, agents, editors, publishers--than it is to readers. I don't know that I've ever seen a Middle Grade shelf in a bookstore. They have all sorts of other labels--Classics, Fantasy, Independent Readers, Series, New Releases, Contemporary, etc. Or just Children and Teens.

I've also seen a lot of books that are shelved in Childrens at Borders put in Young Adult at my library. So... I think it's easy to get too stressed out about it, when you could just be focusing on the story.