August Book Study - The Graveyard Book

Fenika · Jul 31, 2009

Hello, and welcome to the F/SF Book Study.

This thread is for discussion of The Graveyard Book by Neil Gaiman.

***Spoilers*** will be streaking through this thread unpredictably. You have been warned.

If anyone wants to compare to previous book studies:

2008:
Ender's Game (August)
Lies of Locke Lamora (September)
A Deepness in the Sky (October)
A Fire in the Deep (November)
Storm Front (December)

2009:
I Am Legend (January)
The Onion Girl (February)
Lord of Light (March)
Small Gods (April)
Beggars in Spain (May)
The Once and Future King (June)
Foundation (July)

Thank you to Broken Fingers for starting the book study!

Cheers

-----------
Here is the list, compiled by Fingers, of possible discussion topics. Feel free to tackle something off the list or come up with your own points.
-----------
First of all: Did you enjoy the book? Why or why not?
What was your impression of it?
And I’ll list some of the possible things we can discuss:
The Beginning:
- How effective was the opening hook?
- How effective was the first sentence? The first paragraph? The first page? The first chapter?
- When were you pulled into the author’s world? By the end of the first chapter?
- If not, when?
- How do you think this was accomplished? Or why do you think it wasn’t accomplished?
- What would you have done to change it/make it better?
- If you were an editor, what would your reaction be to the first chapter?
- Why do you think the average reader liked it so much?
And more…
The Protagonist:
- What did you like/dislike about the protagonist?
- How did the author introduce the protagonist?
- How did the author get you to become invested in the protagonist?
- What was different about the protagonist as opposed to other protagonists? What was the same? Did the author make the protag distinguishable? If so, how?
- What techniques did the author use to show the protagonist throughout the story?
- What were some of the characteristics the author gave the character and how did they work/not work?
The Characters:
- Did the author make the characters come alive for you?
- How did he/she do this?
- How were they described?
- How were they distinctive?
And more…
The Setting:
- Was the author’s world convincing?
- Did he/she make you feel you were there? How?
- What about the setting did you like? Not like?
- What would you have done differently?
And more….
The Plot/Story:
- Did you enjoy it? Why or why not?
- Was it different or similar to other plotlines in the genre? How?
- Was it believable? Predictable?
- Were there any twists, turns or surprises?
- Would you have thought of it? How does it compare to your own plotline of your WIP?
- Did it pull you through or did you have to wade through it?
- How was this done or how do you think it should’ve been done?
- If you were buying stories for a publisher, and this manuscript hit your desk (not knowing what you do now about its sales) would you have bought it or expected it to be successful?
- Why do you think the buying public enjoyed it so much?
- What variations, if any, would you have added to the storyline/plot?
And more…
The Style:
- What did you think of the author’s style of writing? Like it? Hate it?
- How much do you think this had to do with the success of the book, if any?
- What type of POV was used? How effective was it? Would the book have turned out different if the POV were done differently?
- How removed was the author from the story or how intrusive?
And more…
The Structure:
- How did the author unfold the story?
- Were the beginning, middle and end equally strong?
- How effective was the way the author gave you all the information?
Was it straightforward? Suspenseful? Predictable? Surprising?
- Could it have been done another way?
- Was it a linear structure or did the scenes jump around? How did this add/detract from the story or your enjoyment of it?
And more…..
The Theme:
- Was there any? What was it?
- Did you think it had an impact on your enjoyment of the story?
- Was it blatant or subtle?
- Do you think the average reader registered this?
- Do you think it may have affected him/her or contributed in any way to the success of the book?
And more…
Conflict:
- What was the main conflict?
- How was it handled?
- Was it a large part of the story or did the author keep it lying under the surface?
- What other conflicts did the author use in the story and when? (Internal and external.)
- What purpose did they serve?
- Would the story have been as enjoyable with less conflict? More?
- What types of conflict could’ve added to the story? Which conflicts subtracted from the story?
And more…
Dialogue:
- Was it realistic?
- Was it readable?
- How did the author handle ‘tags’?
- Was there a lot of dialogue or a little?
- Were there dialects? Slang? Profanity? Vulgarity?
And more…
The Ending:
- Was it satisfying? Why or why not?
- Did it come as a surprise or did you see it coming from page two?
- Would you have ended it the same?
- Was everything resolved?
- Would you be able to write a sequel?
- Would you buy another book from this author?
And more….
__________________

ELMontague · Jul 31, 2009

May I start with I loved it.

This was an engaging book and really quite wonderful. It was a treat to see that it was a retelling of the Jungle Book (Okay, okay, I make a point of not reading the cover or listening to other people if I know I'm going to read a book. It took me a couple of chapters to catch on.)

I really like the way Gaiman was able to give life to Bod, a precocious kid growing up with the dead.

NicoleMD · Aug 2, 2009

I enjoyed it also. I was engaged all the way through and liked the quick pacing. The many perilous situations Bod found himself in were suspenseful and imaginative. The characters came off as unique and well-developed, and the relationships between them felt real, though sometimes rushed.

The episodic nature of this book did feel a little repetitive towards the middle of the book where it felt like the plot had stalled a bit. And I also found myself wishing Bod would have solved a few of the problems himself rather than needing help all the time.

But overall, it was a good, quick read, and I think there's a lot to learn from it from a writer's prospective.

Nicole

ELMontague · Aug 4, 2009

The book read to quick for me to get bogged down. So I didn't notice those parts.

I found the teenage witch ghost, can't remember name, most intriguing. But I never understood why she shied away from him. Any help there?

NicoleMD · Aug 5, 2009

ELMontague said:
The book read to quick for me to get bogged down. So I didn't notice those parts.

I found the teenage witch ghost, can't remember name, most intriguing. But I never understood why she shied away from him. Any help there?

I thought she had a huge crush on him. At least it seemed that way to me. I liked her character a lot, too because she wasn't what I'd expected.

Nicole

ELMontague · Aug 5, 2009

I took it as a crush too, but didn't quite grasp the shying away. Although it was imitating The Jungle Book, so that may have been the driver.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 5, 2009

What I really liked about this book is that it was written so skillfully that the bad scary stuff would go over a little kid's head, while still providing an entertaining story. But an older reader can pick up on all the darkness in the story and get more out of it. The whole book felt very dangerous (for Bod, not for the reader) but it was done gently enough to reach a wide audience.

I loved everything to do with Miss Lupescu (except her name! Way too obvious!), and Silas. Great characterization of adults in a kids book. Often adults in kid books are either really boring old buzzkills, clueless moron parents, or childlike themselves. But I thought these were proper adults with adult problems.

The worldbuilding was amazing, and came from so many different directions. Although that's kind of NG's specialty

Etola · Aug 6, 2009

A good, solid, enjoyable read with some incredible prose

I loved the characters--even the (comparatively) minor ones were well-sketched out and felt very "real" to me. Some excellent world-building--I loved the idea of the "Honour Guard," and the cool twist on werewolves and Jacks. I also give props to Gaiman for 1) creating a reformed, sympathetic vampire character without Silas coming off as emo or angsty (or sparkling), and 2) telling us Silas is a vampire without ever using the word "vampire" once in the entire book. I also thought it was both brave and realistic of him to have Scarlett reject Bod at the end.

NicoleMD said:
The episodic nature of this book did feel a little repetitive towards the middle of the book where it felt like the plot had stalled a bit.

I admit this was the one thing niggling at the back of my mind. I suppose episodic is the way to go when you're writing a coming-of-age story, but part of me kept thinking, "Come on, get back to the Jacks! And what are Silas and Miss Lupescu doing in this cave with the mummy and the pig??" The suspense (and the keeping Bod in the dark) came dangerously close at some times to crossing the line into frustration.

But considering it was a fast read (I churned through the last two hundred pages yesterday at a particularly slow day at work), this is a fairly minor quibble.

NicoleMD · Aug 6, 2009

ELMontague said:
I took it as a crush too, but didn't quite grasp the shying away. Although it was imitating The Jungle Book, so that may have been the driver.

Maybe it was for author convenience? Where else is a relationship between a fourteen-year-old boy and a century's-old ghost supposed to go? On second thought, don't answer that.

Nicole

geardrops · Aug 13, 2009

So it won the Hugo, which I guess should be said.

I for one really enjoyed this book. It was sweet, very cute, I think "twee" is a good description for it. It had a darkness to it that wasn't so very dark that you couldn't get through it, or wouldn't want to read it to your kids. (I would read it to my kids, if I had kids.)

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the episodic nature of it. On one side, I felt like it worked, on another side, perhaps the story could have been a bit more seamless.

I enjoyed the Jacks most

I felt that was very cute and clever. They were a nice sort of evil -- certainly bad, no doubt, but manageable in the fashion of some of the lighter Grimm tales.

Only thing I wondered was... why Bod? With Mowgli we understand. But why Bod?

(Bear in mind, I read an ARC, so my version may have needed editorial help. I know I got the story of how ghouls are named, which was present in the English edition absent from the American one.)

Kitty Pryde · Aug 13, 2009

dempsey said:
Only thing I wondered was... why Bod? With Mowgli we understand. But why Bod?

Why Bod what?

geardrops · Aug 13, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
Why Bod what?

Why was he special? Why did Jack come after him in the first place? Oooeeeooo prophecy?

Kitty Pryde · Aug 13, 2009

dempsey said:
Why was he special? Why did Jack come after him in the first place? Oooeeeooo prophecy?

Oh right, yeah, the Jacks had a prophecy that a boy born into Bod's family at the time he was born was the one who would end up destroying them (IIRC). So Jack Frost tries to kill him, ends up chasing him out to the graveyard where he gains protection and ultimately ends up killing off all the remaining Jacks with the help of his friends. Self fulfilling prophecy FTW!

geardrops · Aug 13, 2009

Kitty Pryde said:
Self fulfilling prophecy FTW!

Okay so what I thought happened did happen.

I don't know. I feel like Jack's reasons for coming after Bod could have been a bit more fulfilling.

Fenika · Aug 13, 2009

I'm still waiting to listen to the epilogue, but I think I got the jist of it in the first 5 minutes

While I still think listening to books makes them hard to follow, it was great to hear Neil read the book (and watch him too). He was very much into it and really brought the story to life (which helped during the slow bits).

I think the start of the book was good, but a lot could go and we'd still be left with a good story. The end is where things really got edgy, and I think the balance of the book should have been there.

I'm also curious about why Mowgli was special?

NicoleMD · Aug 13, 2009

dempsey said:
Okay so what I thought happened did happen.

I don't know. I feel like Jack's reasons for coming after Bod could have been a bit more fulfilling.

Yeah, that part was a little cheesy, especially since it just pops up at the end.

Nicole

Sai · Aug 14, 2009

I enjoyed this, though I found it skewed younger than I had expected. I've never read the Jungle Book, so I didn't catch any of the references.

I think what surprised me most was that Bod doesn't get the girl in the end. The fact that Bod doesn't understand why Scarlett might be mad at him was the first time it really dawned on me on how much growing up in a graveyard distanced Bod from the living.

Etola · Aug 26, 2009

dempsey said:
Why was he special? Why did Jack come after him in the first place? Oooeeeooo prophecy?

Yeah, I found that part confusing. IIRC, the head Jack (Jack Dandy, IIRC?) implied that Jack Frost didn't know all the details, or may not have necessarily come to "kill" Bod. I was wondering when this would be clarified (ooh, was Bod prophecied to be the next Jack, since we never learn his first name?). But it never was.

dempsey said:
(Bear in mind, I read an ARC, so my version may have needed editorial help. I know I got the story of how ghouls are named, which was present in the English edition absent from the American one.)

Wait, what? I was wondering why that never got explained! Why did they drop it?

geardrops · Aug 26, 2009

Etola said:
Wait, what? I was wondering why that never got explained! Why did they drop it?

This was mentioned in an event in my area, where someone asked Neil why it was in the UK version and not in the US version. His response was, "I had no idea it wasn't in the US version," and then he proceeded to explain the ghoul-naming.

Moonfish · Aug 30, 2009

Well, the ghoul-naming was a bit gory, maybe deemed too much so for the more "sensitive" American market...

I LOVED the book, just read it. But there was something that nagged at me that I found a bit weak, and now I cannot remember what it was.

However, in my edition there were illustrations where Bod wasn't dressed right. When he was still wearing his sheet he had period-type clothes in the illustrations. That bugged me.

I think the witch shied away from him because he was turning into a man and was no longer a boy, and as said, she was in love with him and probably knew he was leaving.

And oh how I cried at the end... I do love Silas.
I think how Bod tricked Jack was very good.

Kitty Pryde · Aug 31, 2009

Yeah, the outfits were wrong. I think Dave McKean wanted to capture sort of the romance of Bod, all windswept hair out alone in the graveyard looking pensive, and jackets with neat collars and long ruffly sleeves worked better for that. Whereas if he had drawn him in winding sheets it would have been a bit goofy. Artistic license I suppose.

Etola · Aug 31, 2009

Huh--I totally didn't see them as poofy period clothing. It looked more like modern-day clothing that was just a bit baggy/oversized, because he couldn't actually try anything on at the store. Granted, it still wasn't "winding sheets," but I never thought Bod was dressed in anything, say, 18th century-ish.

starchildtrilogy · Sep 2, 2009

I realize I'm a little late jumping in on this, but I love Neil Gaiman's works, so I eagerly picked up The Graveyard Book. I was not disappointed. It's not my favorite book of his, but I found it to be a great twist on an orphaned tale. The way Gaiman creates the community in the graveyard, each character with very specific personality, is what really made me care about this book. I wanted to know more about the other denizens that interacted with Bod. Gaiman is fabulous at creating character and rarely, if ever, formulaic in these characters throughout his novels.

Etola · Sep 3, 2009

starchildtrilogy said:
I realize I'm a little late jumping in on this, but I love Neil Gaiman's works, so I eagerly picked up The Graveyard Book. I was not disappointed. It's not my favorite book of his, but I found it to be a great twist on an orphaned tale. The way Gaiman creates the community in the graveyard, each character with very specific personality, is what really made me care about this book. I wanted to know more about the other denizens that interacted with Bod. Gaiman is fabulous at creating character and rarely, if ever, formulaic in these characters throughout his novels.

IMHO, part of what makes Gaiman stories so great for characters is that he's really good at peppering his character descriptions with deft little details that are very effective and evocative, not least because they are unusual. It's easy to fall into the trap, while writing, of using particular shorthand for characterization, and to fall into cliche. We can say that a person is tall and thin and pale, or that someone else wears a coat the color of shadows, or has really intense eyes. Gaiman will come up with a metaphor or simile that is unexpected and masterful.

I can't come up with any off-hand from The Graveyard Book (since I don't have it in front of me), but the one I always think of when I think of Gaiman is his description of Septemus's face in Stardust. Also, the Other Mother's hands in Coraline... *shudders!*

starchildtrilogy · Sep 3, 2009

Excellent point, Etola! Now I want to go back and reread Gaiman's works to find those little moments! American Gods is one of my favorite Gaimans and I'm betting there are quite a number in there!

August Book Study - The Graveyard Book

ELMontague

Onomatopotamus

ELMontague

Onomatopotamus

ELMontague

i luv you giant bear statue

Still looking for stars...

Onomatopotamus

Good thing I like my day job

i luv you giant bear statue

Good thing I like my day job

i luv you giant bear statue

Good thing I like my day job

Onomatopotamus

Book lover/Spy

Still looking for stars...

Good thing I like my day job

i luv you giant bear statue

Still looking for stars...

We are made of star stuff.

Still looking for stars...

We are made of star stuff.