Reality Publishing Ltd. (Emma-Louise Byfield)

Diva - If this is the route you have decided to follow I genuinely wish you every success and good luck.

BUT - it costs nothing to be published and have one's book available to be picked up and flicked through in brick and mortar bookstores. That's what publishers do - and they normally pay writers a non-refundable advance before the books are even in the store.

Most fiction e-books are lost in the vastness of the internet and achieve little sales beyond the immediate circle of family and friends.

Agents and Publishers do not trawl the internet looking for new authors.

I do hope you are not driven by impatience or are giving up because you can't be bothered with going through the process of mastering both the craft of writing and the writing of a Query letter, which is the route to an Agent and then, hopefully, to a publisher who will PAY you and put your books in bookstores. They will arrange all printing and marketing and distribution - and take care of the cover - at no expense to you.

Nobody finds Query Letters easy but by far the more important thing is to have a good story and a well-written and polished manuscript.

Do think carefully.

I'm sure others will be along shortly who have far more experience and wisdom than I on this topic

DivaLeanne said:

I've looked into Trafford and a few other places and they want, from what I gathered, money up front.

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Real publishers do not want money at all. They just want your manuscript, then they pay you.

DivaLeanne said:

Imo, I think that this is a great opportunity for Artists, Writers, Publishers, Editors who want their work featured or their services featured. I'm not very knowledgeable in the e-book buisness or publishing buisness, but I have a few friends that I have met online through writing communities, that have been published this way, and are doing VERY well.

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They are one of very very many people offering this service (Smash words, Lulu, Fictionwise, Whiffy Skunk, Opus Expo etc etc etc etc). And most people self-publishing via this kind of route will not sell many copies.

DivaLeanne said:

I know everybody has their own personal preferences, but I just don't see why ALOT don't agree with this direction. If I go with this publisher, I'm not really worried about how many books will be sold, I know that it won't just be family and friends that are buying my books--I've been writing on the net now for over 6 years, and have a widely ranged fan base, that will follow where ever I go, and they have already said, they would pay whatever it was to read my stuff.

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Many people don't agree with this direction because they do care a bout selling books, and want to sell signifcant numbers--that being the goal of publishing.

DivaLeanne said:

Are you saying in your opinion, you don't think authors who have signed up with e-publishing are that good?

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Nobody said this. It isn't about format.

DivaLeanne said:

Thanks Bufty for your kindness, and your concern, and please don't worry I am thinking VERY hard about this.

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I suggest you do some more research into your alternatives. If you want to use an ebook vendor, why use an unproven start up when there are established vendors with readerships already in business?

....Nobody finds Query Letters easy but by far the more important thing is to have a good story and a well-written and polished manuscript.

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Are you saying in your opinion, you don't think authors who have signed up with e-publishing are that good?

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Leanne, I did not even suggest that.

There are many excellent writers out there who have self-published - mostly in the fields of non-fiction, educational books, poetry etc., or books with say a niche market or a ready built base of readers and purchasers, but for the vast majority of first-time novelists it is the route to hard slog with little return.

By that last phrase I mean that sales don't materialise out of thin air.

As I interpret your comments, it seems you are not interested in how many folk buy your book and simply accept this unproven newcomer to the arena as giving a 'huge opportunity'.

Don't you want your book in a bookstore to be available to be picked up and purchased by potential readers?

I don't get it - I would prefer to spend time honing my skills, then approaching a real publisher via a real Agent so my book could at last be made available in bookshops for people to hold and buy and read, and enjoy as much as I enjoyed writing it.

In any event, I gather a contract has already been signed (though I'm not sure what it commits you to) so I feel like I'm whistling into the wind.

Nevertheless, Good luck.

Keep in mind too, an entertainment lawyer is not a publishing lawyer. Publishing contracts are a very specific field. Someone other than a lawyer who specializes in them may (and often do) miss important points that writers should be aware of.

Best of luck. With the time it takes to write a book, there is normally time to look at all those different publishing options....

I believe it was Trafford when they sent their package to me, it said it was $1600 for the cheapest route. $ 3300 for the most expensive.

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Bufty and the others are talking about real publishers, not self-pubs. I feel as though there's some confusion on your part and it would be a shame if it's because of this -- and not because you've tried traditional publishing and failed -- you've signed a contract for a self-pub company.

I have a suspicion there've been a few research short-cuts here.

Oh I know they are talking about real publishers, and there is alot of confusion, thats why I thought I needed to make this post and get people's opinions. I have not signed no contract as of yet, and I'm still doing research, I just know you all have some great knowledge on this and thought I might benefit from asking this question.

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Okay. That's fair enough. But before you sign anything, I just want to be sure you understand that traditional publishers do not ask you for any money. None. Not a penny. Because from your previous comments, it seems you're confused on this matter, and I'd hate for you to make the wrong decision.

If, however, you already know all this and still want to go the self-pub route, then good luck. I wish you all the best.

I've not heard of Trafford, but any publisher who asks you to pay for your own publishing is a self-pub company. If you're paying, then you're self-publishing.

Traditional publishers don't charge you a penny.

I didn't mean for it to sound like you said that, I was trying to ask your opinion if that's what you feel about e-publishing, sorry Bufty. Okay -No problem



Oh don't get me wrong I do want lots of people to buy my books, and I would love for it to be in a bookstore, that's not what I meant and after reading my comment, that does sound like that. I just meant, I would use word of mouth for potential *new* readers to read my stuff, if I wasn't getting many sales, does that make sense??

That's what every intending self-pubbed novelist says but for the vast majority it just doesn't turn out that way, I'm afraid. It's more a case of a trunkload of books paid for by the self-pubber, and the wearing out of his shoe leather.

The writer published by a real publisher WHO PAYS YOU MONEY UP FRONT would be writing instead and leaving the marketing and selling to his publisher.



I really wanted this thread to see what everyones opinions are, I am still honing my skills and looking into real publisher with agents, I just am thinking that I MIGHT go with this option, and I wanted to see if there are any other authors who have been published through e-publishing would give me some insight on this, as well as authors who chose the other route.

There's no comparison, my dear, for a novelist. If you really want the opportunity to reach as many readers as possible and also achieve a return for your hard work, the Agent route to a real publisher is far and away the best route. That's the route where the writer gets paid up front and the reader buys the book in bookshops, knowing he is getting a good story, well-written, professionally edited and polished. (Most self-pubbed novels do not meet that criteria because normally the only Editor or judge of quality is the writer himself.)

It's not the easiest route -it takes hard work and determination, but the best things in life are never easy are they?

If all one wants is to hold a copy of one's novel, achieve minimal sales without the books being available in bookshops, and claim one is 'published' - the self-pub route will provide that - but that's about all.





Oh no I haven't I just took it to entertainment lawyer so I could see if this was a rip off or not. I haven't said yes to anything. Thanks Bufty.

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Thank goodness. So you are not committed to deliver a manuscript by December then?

Take your time. Decide wisely. Think of what you want to achieve with your writing.
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ETA - Since read the posts that went up while I was writing this. Phew! Over to you!

I'm not trying to change your mind on anything here, but let me present you with two options:

1) You pay a company some money to print your book (or make it an e-book). You provide artwork. You're entirely responsible for all editing and proofreading. All marketing is down to you, and this book will only ever be available online.

2) A publisher buys your book. They do all the work (printing, binding, artwork, etc). They help you edit and polish the book. They form a marketing plan. They get the book in shops. They pay *you*, and don't ask you for any money at all.

The second option is traditional publishing.

Self-publishing works for some, but please, consider all options before you make a choice. You might decide traditional publishing is best for you -- in which case, this board is full to the brim with advice and help. You only have to ask. I know the publishing world is a scary place.

Whatever the case, I really do wish you the best.

ETA:

Okay, I think I know what you're getting at. The publisher I am talking about, Reality Publishing, wouldn't really be classified as self publish then, because I don't pay anything. They put my book in e-book format or hard copy and I get 80% of the royalities, they get 20%

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Okay, fair enough. If you're happy with e-publishing, then ignore me. I was only talking about self-pub. Confusion all 'round!

BTW, publishing in eformat and self-publishing are separate matters. I epublish, but I do so through a commericial epublisher. I am pretty good at writing ebooks (length and subject suited to the ebook reading public), they are very good at selling them (which I am not).

I'm not going to weigh in on whether this e-publisher is a better choice than other e-publishers, or whether it is better or worse than self-publishing through an entity like LuLu or otherwise...For purposes of this post, it doesn't really matter is we are talking about e-publishing with a start up or self-publishing.

And if you have decided to try this route, I wish you luck.

But, there was one more point I thought you should consider before you decide (one that hadn't been raised yet, I think). Because this statement made me think you haven't thought through the long term issues:

DivaLeanne said:

I really wanted this thread to see what everyones opinions are, I am still honing my skills and looking into real publisher with agents, I just am thinking that I MIGHT go with this option, and I wanted to see if there are any other authors who have been published through e-publishing would give me some insight on this, as well as authors who chose the other route.

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Now, as a caveat, I'm not talking about the very rare e-publishing and self-publishing cross-overs. Statistically they are so few of the total novels that are e-published and self-published, that I am not focusing on those who win the self-publishing/e-publishing lottery so to speak, but all the non-winning players - ie, all those who e-publish and self-publish and don't find the kind of 1 in a million success that leads to an agent/traditional publishing coming calling. Those rarities are, well, rare. So, I am talking about the masses who are more common.

I have read/heard a good number of agents and editors weigh in on what they think when a prospective client/author has self-published or published through an e-publisher, before approaching them with a new project. The opinions range from "don't care one way or another" to saying "it's a real negative."

Those who are turned off by seeing e-published and self-published books have a variety of reasons - starting with it may make you seem impatient and less dedicated to the trials and tribulations of the publishing process, and continuing through career sales record figures.

But one concern I have heard more than once is that once you have e-published or self-published a novel, that book is your debut novel. And no future traditional publisher can use that to market any future book.

That term, "debut novel" has significant marketing value, so much so that at least one agent has said that it's a real shame and a drawback for her when she is considering a book for possible representation, and then sees the person had previously self-published, and so the book she is considering can't be marketed as the person's "debut novel."

Then there is the consideration of whether you want a long career in traditional publishing. If you do, you will be judged by your sales figures. Period. How many books have you sold. What is your average sales. Did you earn out each time. And your (likely to be) smaller sales numbers as a self-published or e-published book can follow you, and they can follow without the context that it was a small start-up or self-published, because that's not always clear.

So, let's say later you sell a book later to a traditional publisher...when people look back through your sales they will see this earlier self-published or e-published book that (the statistics show) has little chance of selling even 1,000 copies, yet alone the 2,500-5,000 or so that would be good for a traditionally published book. So, it looks like your first book bombed, because that future possible editor (or book buying public) doesn't know you published through an e-publisher or self-published, and it had little marketing and was not sold in stores, etc. It just looks like it bombed.

And if you have a few, that all sell under 1,000 books, well, it can hurt you - you don't look marketable. And in this day and age, those titles follow you. I know of an up and coming author who is really trying very hard to run from an early book...most especially because the author now knows it isn't representative of what the author is capable of with time and experienced editing and copy-editing, etc., and so doesn't want readers who loved the author's traditionally published book to find that early book. But because of the internet and amazon, etc., it's there if you look.

So, if you have long term aspirations of landing an agent and a traditional publisher, and then fostering a long career in the traditional publishing world, think about giving that a good shot first, before you use up your "debut novel" and publish through an e-publisher, where your long term career sales numbers will be impacted.

Having said all of that, if you choose to go this route, good luck. :}

~suki

Some epublishers do pay an advance, most do not--those that do are not paying a "likely total earnings" type of advance in most cases, more a kind of honorarium. Hence the need to research likely ebook sales volumes for each epublisher, as you cannot know the likely profits to be made by any other method : /

Is there a link to Reality Publishing? All I can find is a forum (.org) with a very strong and rather narrow Christian angle which doesn't match to the idea of vampire fiction.

veinglory said:

Is there a link to Reality Publishing? All I can find is a forum (.org) with a very strong and rather narrow Christian angle which doesn't match to the idea of vampire fiction.

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That's all I could find, too veinglory. (Hmmm, Christian vampire fiction...)

Leanne, can you offer a link to this company?

DivaLeanne said:

I did not know that, thanks for the info M.R.J. Le Blanc

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Np Leanne. It actually makes sense, when you think about it. I mean, you'd never go to a criminal lawyer for family court stuff. But I'm a law buff, so I might be a little biased on it making sense too

I just wanna say something, about all this. I've been here since November 2008, and I've seen and read a lot since being here. I don't get it all, but what I've come to realize is this: publishers started by people with experience have books all ready to go. Whether it's a few or a few dozen, they've already got a lineup as soon as they open. They know the risks involved. Agencies started by people with experience have clients already upon opening their doors, and already have good upcoming sales to brag about. Experience makes all the difference. Trust me on this one.

Having a following is great. Word of mouth advertising is great. But nothing trumps a publisher who knows how to advertise, especially with e-publishers. No good publisher or agent ever has to search for writers. EVER. Variations of this type of website have been done before; they don't work. Because agents and publishers who make real sales are too busy with their own slushpiles.