Walter Williams uses fraudulent survey to make case against global warming

robeiae said:

Now, with the regard to your final example--healthcare--I would think that after me calling you to the carpet on multiple occasions for misrepresenting my position as akin to "doing nothing," you would actually stop doing it.

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What you call misrepresenting I see as a logical extension of what you actually say.

You've "called me on the carpet" for attributing to you such things as saying your ideology is ""the way things really work," not some fantasy-land version. You call that a misrepresentation because what you really said was that your ideology is "based on the way things really work" not some fantasy land version. You may feel this is a deliberate distortion of your views, but I see it as no more than parsing words on your part.

As far as I can tell, your solution to healthcare is based on small steps, starting with tort reform and doing away with HMOs. That will do nothing to address the major problems -- those who cannot afford insurance, those who have pre existing conditions, and those who are dropped from insurance when they get sick.

To me, that equates with doing nothing, because it changes the basic flawed system not a whit. You may disagree, but it's hardly a misrepresentation of your position.

If the head gasket in your car is about to give up the ghost and your solution is to change the dirty oil, I suppose you could argue that you've done something. It's certainly not good to drive around with dirty oil. But as far as addressing the actual problem that will cause the engine to seize up, you've done nothing.

rugcat said:

As far as I can tell, your solution to healthcare is based on small steps, starting with tort reform and doing away with HMOs. That will do nothing to address the major problems -- those who cannot afford insurance, those who have pre existing conditions, and those who are dropped from insurance when they get sick.

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There ya go. Your goals are all about insurance, not actual healthcare costs. So of course, your solution is not gonna be the same as someone that isn't looking at all this through the prism of insurance.

To me, that equates with doing nothing, because it changes the basic flawed system not a whit. You may disagree, but it's hardly a misrepresentation of your position.

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It absolutely is a misrepresentation. How is anyone supposed to know that you have decided to redefine "nothing," in this manner? Explain it to me, cause I'm at a complete loss. Your tactic here is not only disingenuous, it is also quite petty.

Produce a model, fix the model. Test the model, fix the model. Ad infinitum.



AMC

ColoradoGuy said:

I agree that health insurance and health care are distinct entities. But they overlap heavily, and one cannot fix the one without fixing the other at the same time. The insanely high cost of health care in America is directly linked to the crazy way we pay for it -- an avaricious private insurance industry manages to avoid the truly expensive patients, who are left to Medicare and Medicaid. Those who cannot afford the first and do not qualify for the second are left to suffer unnecessarily. I'm with rugcat on this one -- incrementalism is not the way to go.

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Well, if we had started with the "incrementalism" ten or more years ago, where would we be, now?

Because it seems to me that a majority of people in the industry have known--for at least that long--that HMOs were a bad idea.

ColoradoGuy said:

But we didn't, so here we are. And although I agree for-profit HMOs are bad, non-profits like Kaiser have generally good track records regarding global outcomes and costs (the Kaiser Foundation also does first-rate research on health policy issues).

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Well, where is "here," exactly? Why does this moment require a massive overhaul--that may, imo, screw things up even worse and may, imo, have dramatic long-term consequences for the Federal budget/deficit--beyond any other moment?

I submit that it makes more sense to fix mistakes that directly impact the system re costs, first and foremost. And again, I have no problem with government programs to help those who cannot afford essential care, like Medicaid, Medicare, Schip, what have you. Of course, waste and corruption should be eliminated--whenever possible--in such programs.

ETA: And why are we knee deep into healthcare in a GW thread?

ColoradoGuy said:

I agree. And the way to do it is to change how the insurance industry currently operates. It is a major engine of medical care costs.

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I agree. Except I think that would be best accomplished by reducing it's role, not increasing it. And when the program on the table is about finding "coverage" for more people, I don't think that's gonna happen.

Because you wanted to suck me in?

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You wanted to be sucked in...