How harsh are you on other writers? (moved from Novels)

I don't think I need explain how brutal I am, do I?

But any book which starts off with the MC 'descending down' the stairs deserves to be killed with fire as far as I'm concerned. And in a published novel too! *sigh*

I give writers leeway, but I don't let them take the piss out of my time, money and effort.

EAT CRAP AND DIE!!

Wait, what?

I don't know. I haven't done a crit in eons. Which board on here is the best for posting works and having them critiqued?

It depends.

If I'm critiquing, then I'm honest about it. Not sure about harsh or brutal, but I try to be honest and fair and I don't sugarcoat my critiques. That may come across as harsh and brutal for someone without a thick skin. But at least I try to be polite about it and stress that it's only MY opinion.

That may explain why I don't do a lot of crits and why few people ask me.

If I'm reading, then I will try not to put my writer's cap on at all, because that just hampers my enjoyment. Unless, of course, the book is so poorly written that by the second page I want to tear my eyes out. That rarely happens because I like to "test read" a few pages (from the beginning, the middle and somewhere in the 3/4 without major spoilers of the ending) before I consider the purchase.

People talk about being unkind when they read with their "writer's hat" on as compared to their "reader's hat", but for me it's the exact opposite. When I'm writing a lot and I read something, I'm more likely to be tolerant with weak writing because I realize how hard it is to write something uniformly good for an entire novel. (Also, maybe because I fear my own writing isn't that great.)

When I'm reading just as a reader, I'm pretty cruel, and want to be entertained.

These days I rarely pick books up off the shelf randomly and look them over. I usually read books based on trusted recommendations. After I hear about a book I read the back to see what it's about, and if it passes phase two of my inspection then and only then do I flip it open and read the first few pages. Since I've already checked it out I'm willing to give it a few minutes of my time before I give up on it.

For the most part I'm very brutal. Waste my time with a crappy intro and I will send your book back to it's home on the shelf with an ice-cold rejection of your efforts.

scarletpeaches said:

I don't think I need explain how brutal I am, do I?

But any book which starts off with the MC 'descending down' the stairs deserves to be killed with fire as far as I'm concerned. And in a published novel too! *sigh*

I give writers leeway, but I don't let them take the piss out of my time, money and effort.

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Now I am obligated to make up an awesome beginning to a story that involves just that:

Feeling neglected, the fireplace left its accustomed place and descended down the stairs.

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I honestly don't think HARSH and BRUTAL come into play for me. I prefer HONESTY. I will tell the writer exactly what's right and exactly what's wrong, IMHO. I don't sugar coat for friends and I don't attack enemies. I shoot straight. When you're honest...any brutality or harshness is only experienced in the eyes of the one being critiqued...and then, only if their work is lacking.

I'm like maestro. When something is on Share Your Work, I point out issues.

If I'm reading, I hide my writer's hat in the other room.

I'm mean and I love my red pencil of doom.

I used to be pretty forgiving about anything I read, but lately that's started to change. I'll now drop a published book very fast if it doesn't appeal to me, and that's happened to the last four books I've tried to read. Fingers crossed that number five manages to change things.

When it comes to critiquing somebody's WIP, I'll be honest but not cruel. I know how frustrating it is to get a pointlessly negative critique, but I also know how frustrating it is to get one that's suspiciously positive.

When I started writing a novel and learning about the mechanics of writing novels, it ruined my enjoyment of reading novels for a long time. Every "error" all the writing books and blogging agents ridicule and scold about jumped out at me in published works.

It also bothered me that if these were the things the experts were saying we must never do, why were even the debut authors getting away with them so often?

It's taken a couple of years, but I am finally enjoying reading again. Sure, it still bugs me to read "he nodded his head, indicating agreement, and then she shrugged her shoulders" and it continues to amaze me that new, edited and published works are rife with this sort of thing But I've quit allowing it to suck the enjoyment out of my reading.

I still draw the line at double exclamation points, though.

There are some people who will shoot straight on SYW, and I try to offer helpful feedback.

But there are some posters who exhibit horrible writing in their posts, and others who are discussing manuscript ideas that can't possibly coalesce into coherent stories.

It's obvious that some people are not going to be able to generate anything that will be of interest to a commercial publisher. Most people make this very evident very quickly, and I think that's why agents rely so heavily on the institution of the query letter. People really only need about 250 words to establish that they suck at writing.

Occasionally, I'll see a post by a writer who is extremely frustrated over the unanimous rejection of a manuscript that is clearly a horrible idea, horribly executed. Usually, the writer is talking about revising and resubmitting. Even the really nice people will advise, in such a situation, to consider focusing on another project. Like coloring on construction paper, or making a necklace out of macaroni.

I have also seen a few people posting on AW who I am pretty sure are suffering from severe mental illness.

But, in most of these situations, I tend to stay silent.

At first, maybe the first few pages, probably pretty harsh. After a while this gets tiring and it's better just to read the freaking thing.

If I'm reading a published book, I'm VERY unforgiving. I absolutely do not forgive spelling or grammar mistakes, word use errors, redundancies, blatant cliches, and so on. Unless the book is otherwise brilliant, it goes soaring into the trash for its sins.

If I'm reading a draft of someone's work for critique, I'm as honest as I can be. When it's for my IRL group, I know the personality of who I'm critting and I crit accordingly (for right or wrong). I want to encourage the writer to improve, not make her run screaming, never to write again. Some people want brutal critique, some want gentle nudges in the right direction. Everyone wants to know what they're doing RIGHT.

The Lonely One said:

I should also ask, do you discriminate on which SYW projects you take on as a crit based on the first few lines, or will you crit a really weak piece regardless? (Let's call it a humanitarian effort.)

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Usually I'll critique an SYW piece if I feel like I have something to say that will be helpful and I think I know how to articulate what might be improved. It also depends on the timing. If I happen to be in the mood to do some critiques and you've just posted yours, I might comment. I also try to look for works I might be the audience for. I avoid critting something if I know nothing about the audience who might like it.

I'm not very brutal in SYW. It's the learning process, so I don't pass harsh judgment on peoples' mistakes. I may give some blunt critiques that feel harsh to the person who receives them, but in my own head I don't think less of them for it.

I'm not harsh or brutal at all. I don't think I'm in a position to critique others' work. Unlike many here, I don't feel I'm at all knowledgeable about writing, it's mechanics, and the rules of fiction or even what makes a good story compared to a great story.

So when I read SYW, it's to see if it captures my interest and then I try my best to explain why it didn't.

But as far as books I'm going to pay for, if it doesn't grab me by the first page, I set it down and peruse another until I do find one that catches my fancy.

I will always be honest, but I will always be tactful and do my best to be uplifting. I'll make sure to stress that my opinion is only my opinion, and if I have to bear bad news, I look for good news to bring as well. I'll always compliment and say what I think *does* work before I'll start in on what doesn't, because really - even the most thick-skinned of us could do with some encouragement. Even if it's just a line I really liked, a side character I find interesting or a little LOL moment, I don't send flat-out downers of crits. I don't sugarcoat or lie about what I think is wrong, but I feel I'm helping more if the writer understands they've got something worth bettering. (If they don't - if the work is utterly unsalvageable - I find that usually coincides with someone who doesn't care much about their work anyway.)

Reading for pleasure, I'm more willing to let things go. I don't like all stories I pick up, but I can learn about what to do and what not to do. I learned a long time ago a lot of terrible writers get published, and pitching a fit about it won't change that. If something holds my attention and the syntax doesn't piss me off, I'll read it. If not, I won't finish. Life's short, and I'd rather read the good books - and work on writing my own - than whine about the bad ones.

The Lonely One said:

I should also ask, do you discriminate on which SYW projects you take on as a crit based on the first few lines, or will you crit a really weak piece regardless? (Let's call it a humanitarian effort.)

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If I think it's beyond hope anyone can provide in a forum or if I suspect the author hasn't polished a reasonable amount, then I often don't bother offering a crit. Sometimes, though, I will recommend a book that may help.

What really use to bother me was blogging agents fawning over authors who were committing the same writing "sins" those agents had complained about in their blog posts.

But I'm over it. No really, I am.

What got me over it was cataloging all the mistakes and annoying repetitions in a certain runaway bestseller. In some ways, it was a joke that a book this badly written (by agent and expert standards) could be such a huge hit (and no, the story didn't make up for the writing; it didn't even hang together). But it helped me really accept that if you write a story that appeals one way or another, the world in general (that is, the world outside of writerdom) can be pretty forgiving. And maybe that's not such a bad thing.

djf881 said:

It's obvious that some people are not going to be able to generate anything that will be of interest to a commercial publisher. Most people make this very evident very quickly, and I think that's why agents rely so heavily on the institution of the query letter. People really only need about 250 words to establish that they suck at writing.

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Yes and no. I think some people really do just suck at writing query letters.
That being said, the query can often point to problems in the ms or the idea itself.

The Lonely One said:

Interesting, so your choice of what to offer critique on often is based on not only execution but the idea they're working on in general? If I ever post something like that feel free to stop in and say "this will never sell ever." You may or may not be right but it's good to have honest perspective. I can appreciate that.

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Once I was reading SYW drunk at three in the morning, and my crit was a total rewrite of the poster's story. I scrapped everything but three lines and I turned his MC into a serial killer.

I felt a little bad about that later.