Bashing vs Criticism. Is there a difference?

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underthecity

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This thread was inspired by a thread in Novels forum where the term "bashing," as in, "bashing certain authors" is getting thrown around quite a bit.

But "bashing" is such an ugly, unnecessary, and overused word. Isn't "criticism" more accurate of a term?

If I dislike a new novel because of its overuse of adverbs, starting every sentence with a participle phrase, and its less-than-stellar plot premise, then I am not bashing the book or author. I am criticising the book, just as I would expect someone to criticise my own books. I would not take it as "bashing" if I read unfavorable comments about my book.

So, is "bashing" the new "criticism?"
 

Don Allen

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Bashing shall be defined as "it sucks"
Criticism shall be defined as "it sucks, horribly".
 

M.R.J. Le Blanc

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Correction:

Bashing: not liking something or someone for no reason
Criticism: not liking something or the actions of someone but with valid reasons for doing so
 

alleycat

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Yes, I think there is.

I think "bashing" sometimes comes into play when there's a general feeling that someone has gotten undue fame and fortune for something undeserved. Someone might not like Stephen King's work anymore than they do Dan Brown's, but most people can at least acknowledge that King worked hard to get where he is and has a certain measure of talent. They generally criticize his books rather than him personally.

I haven't bashed too many writers, but I've taken a swing or two at Paris Hilton, Pamela Anderson, the Olsen twins, and the like.
 

icerose

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I think criticism can also turn into bashing when it's gone over again and again. If I give say I didn't like this book, it didn't appeal to me, this is why. That's criticism. If I go over it every day for two weeks and rail on about how bad this book sucks and how horrible the writing style is and how the author has no talent and on and on, then it quickly turns into bashing and it gets old really fast.

So I don't like the book, so what, get over it, move on, it's not the end of the world.
 

Polenth

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I'd say they're different. My definitions would be...

Criticism is where you say you didn't like it and probably why you didn't like it. Whether you have a point or you're being petty, you've said it and it's over.

Bashing is where you keep on and on about how much you hate it, you take part in every single thread about it, you start threads about it, you mention how much you hate it any time you can, you try to find reasons to criticise the author too, you try to put down people who like it and then you go back to the beginning and do it all again.

This forum has a bit of both. We've had threads where people discuss their thoughts and leave it at that. We've had threads that follow the bashing cycle (and they usually get locked in the end, because they're going nowhere new).
 

dgiharris

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There is a difference. Criticism varies as well. Criticism can be constructive or it can be destructive. If its destructive, then its essentially bashing.

I sorta agree.

To me, it boils down to intent.

Criticism, whether positive or negative, serves to outline what is right and wrong with a work.

Bashing, usually negative, is a malicious attack with no purpose other than to have a negative impact and effect.

Negative criticism stills serves a purpose that can help a work improve.

Bashing, on the other hand, serves no other purpose other than to hurt a work or writer.

Mel...
 

Brindle Chase

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I sorta agree.


Negative criticism stills serves a purpose that can help a work improve.


It can. Thats true. But it can also shut the ears of those listening. You can point out the negative things in a positive tone, professional, courteous... or you can point them out in a snide, demeaning manner. Both can be helpful... but remember this, as a peer, it reflects on the critiquer how they choose to serve up the critique. Its a choice to take the negative path.
 

benbradley

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This thread was inspired by a thread in Novels forum where the term "bashing," as in, "bashing certain authors" is getting thrown around quite a bit.
I don't recall reading the thread you're talking about, but I don't feel like I need to. I bet I can can even guess a couple of the authors discussed there.

On the other hand, I'd be glad to be "bashed" all the way to the bank, like them!
But "bashing" is such an ugly, unnecessary, and overused word. Isn't "criticism" more accurate of a term?
Yes, but it's possible for "criticism" to be valid, so "they're criticizing me/us" seems like such a weak response when one wants to lash out at criticism.
If I dislike a new novel because of its overuse of adverbs, starting every sentence with a participle phrase, and its less-than-stellar plot premise, then I am not bashing the book or author. I am criticising the book, just as I would expect someone to criticise my own books. I would not take it as "bashing" if I read unfavorable comments about my book.

So, is "bashing" the new "criticism?"
I see "bashing" as the new victimhood. "You're/they're bashing me/us" is a common dismissive response to what may well be valid criticism.

Just my humble opinion and observation...
 

escritora

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I think criticism can also turn into bashing when it's gone over again and again. If I give say I didn't like this book, it didn't appeal to me, this is why. That's criticism. If I go over it every day for two weeks and rail on about how bad this book sucks and how horrible the writing style is and how the author has no talent and on and on, then it quickly turns into bashing and it gets old really fast.

QFT.
 

jessicaorr

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There is a difference. Criticism varies as well. Criticism can be constructive or it can be destructive. If its destructive, then its essentially bashing.

I agree. I think of criticism as the continuum of a line, where constructive criticism is the positive side and bashing is the negative. I suppose, the zero point would be providing no input on the work at all. Offering a thoughtful critique of a piece is constructive, even if it is largely negative. However, simply saying "it sucks, you should never write again" or "it's wonderful, you're the next J.K. Rowling" are both destructive, even though one is negative and one is positive because they do not help the author improve. "Bashing" is just a subset of deconstructive criticisms.
 

virtue_summer

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Criticism and bashing are completely different. Criticism involves specifics. Bashing is just an attack. Examples:

Criticism: "I thought the sentences were choppy and the characters weren't developed enough."

Bashing: "The book sucks. The author sucks. People who like this book are just infantile morons."

Criticism applies to the work and comments on specific elements. Criticism can be helpful to writers because it can point out areas that need work, areas that are fine, things that appeal to a particular audience, etc. Bashing is simply a meanspirited attack of the book or author, usually without a reason given.
 

STKlingaman

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This is a tough subject, because at
some time or another will have all been
caught up in 'bashing'. Which may be
more a group/mob mentality negative
criticism whether intention or not, and
certainly when there is a level
of anonymity involved

Also, the tone and words used have a
great deal to do with the users true
intent.
 

Pagey's_Girl

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Personally, I think criticism is anything concerning the work in question and "bashing" is attacking the author as a person. It's one thing to say, for example, "Pagey's book is not well researched; the entire plot hinges upon a "fact" that even a fifth-grade student would know is untrue and is, in fact, scientifically impossible." It's something else to say "Pagey is obviously the stupidest writer on earth. She doesn't even know what basic science is and obviously failed fifth grade. She's a moron and nobody should ever read her stuff because she's stupid and ugly, too!"

(ETA: And yes, I'm currently doing a LOT of research to make sure that the bit that's central to the whole plot of my WIP isn't just that. And I actually did pass fifth grade. Just don't ask me about tenth grade geometry...:( )
 

jfreedan

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Constructive criticism is where your comments are intended to improve the writer's ability to communicate ideas using written words. Or to point out things like plot inconsistencies. Sometimes we write an idea in a way that pulls the reader out of the story, and those sentences need to be improved so the reader is not pulled out.

Bashing is when your goal is to point out how you would have written the story differently, and it has less to do with trying to help the author and more about the ego of the reviewer. They did not like something, and want to tell everyone why in order to "prove" they are a superior writer.

Everyone has been guilty of bashing at one time or another, even if unintentionally. But there are some people who believe what they dislike about a story is more important than what other people like about a story, and that's where the line gets crossed.

Sometimes the very things I dislike about a story are what other people enjoy. You have to take bashing with a grain of salt.
 
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White-Tean

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I don't think any valid criticism can ever be bashing, although I should mention this is just my personal opinion. Valid criticism can come from a place of love, or it can come out of someone trying to be nasty. I don't care where it comes from or what motivated the person to share it with me, because if it's still valid criticism it's useful to me regardless and I'm always looking for suggestions on how to improve - because I'm lazy essentially, and it strains my brain trying to always figure out the things I need to work on in my own work. If someone can identify the weak bits of my body of work or of specific pieces of my work, even if they're lashing out against me and it's intended as a slur, great.

Bashing is where what's being said isn't about the work; it's all about one persons dislike of another, and doesn't have anything to do with the actual flaws the work may posses.

Again, this is just my way of thinking of things, YMMV.
 
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Ken

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... bashing is in the eyes of the beholder to an extent. If Jane is really into Novel X for instance any criticism of it, however justified, may appear to her like unwarranted bashing. Of course, criticism sometimes is unwarranted and not backed by verifiable observations, in which case it is bashing, and not constructive or helpful to discussions.
 
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You're shit! Everything about you is shit! Why don't you give up writing, crawl away into a cave and die?

That's bashing.

I didn't like this chapter because you tell instead of showing. For example...[quote from manuscript]. I liked where you [compliment] but don't think Character X would do such-and-such because earlier on page seven, you have them saying [quote from manuscript].

Criticism.
 

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Man, this subject is being bashed to death.

bashing n. [SUP]1[/SUP] striking bluntly or violently. [SUP]2[/SUP] harking on about something so often that it comes across as some kind of demented/obsessional personal grudge.

Seriously, if you've already aired your negative opinions about Brown, Meyer et al elsewhere, let it go! No need to say it over and over and over in every thread.

-Derek
 

icerose

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Man, this subject is being bashed to death.

bashing n. [sup]1[/sup] striking bluntly or violently. [sup]2[/sup] harking on about something so often that it comes across as some kind of demented/obsessional personal grudge.

Seriously, if you've already aired your negative opinions about Brown, Meyer et al elsewhere, let it go! No need to say it over and over and over in every thread.

-Derek

:ROFL: I like your definitions! Especially the demented part.
 
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