The U.S. is a one-party fascist dictatorship

Don Allen · May 19, 2009

Okay children, a quick history lesson because you're pissing me off.

Websters Definition: FASCISM-1. A philosophy or governmental system marked by stringent socioeconomic control, a strong central governments. headed by a dictator, and often a belligerently nationalistic policy. 2. Oppressive,dictatorial control.

Some recent examples: Saddamn Hussein, Momar Khadafi, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo,,,,on and on and on.....

Now you people can keep pissing down each others back and telling each other that it's raining, but America is NOT NOW, or even remotely close to becoming a fascist country, economy, dictatorship, or any of the other silly things I've read.

In addition, what everyone here seems to conveniently miss, or possible just be misinformed about, is that every dictator and fascist government I mentioned skimmed right off the top for their personal wealth, friends, or whatever,,,, on top of charging exorbitant tax rates. Their only economic success was the pilfer of natural resources as in Saddams case, or devoting half the fucking country to producing military hardware like Hitler, you tell me how that's so much better than what we have.....

Don Allen · May 19, 2009

Rob,,,, we cross posted, great minds, huh?

Deleted member 42 · May 19, 2009

Tifferbugz said:
I didn't realize that capris and t-shirts were so popular in Rome. >.>

You wait.

When women start deliberately exposing their nipples in public, which happened in the reign of Nero, we'll see who's laughing.

Don · May 19, 2009

Um, Janet Jackson? Any award ceremony that involves a red carpet?

ad_lucem · May 19, 2009

Don Allen said:
Okay children, a quick history lesson because you're pissing me off.

Websters Definition: FASCISM-1. A philosophy or governmental system marked by stringent socioeconomic control, a strong central governments. headed by a dictator, and often a belligerently nationalistic policy. 2. Oppressive,dictatorial control.

Some recent examples: Saddamn Hussein, Momar Khadafi, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo,,,,on and on and on.....

Now you people can keep pissing down each others back and telling each other that it's raining, but America is NOT NOW, or even remotely close to becoming a fascist country, economy, dictatorship, or any of the other silly things I've read.

In addition, what everyone here seems to conveniently miss, or possible just be misinformed about, is that every dictator and fascist government I mentioned skimmed right off the top for their personal wealth, friends, or whatever,,,, on top of charging exorbitant tax rates. Their only economic success was the pilfer of natural resources as in Saddams case, or devoting half the fucking country to producing military hardware like Hitler, you tell me how that's so much better than what we have.....

Don't think anyone is saying that's "so much better" more of a..."we'd better watch our butts or we'll have that".

There are some serious weeds growing in the garden of democracy:

1) Bail-outs to failed banks who just so happen to be deeply tied to our elected officials.

2) Central banks--not run by the gov but in cahoots. Inflation is a tax.

3) "belligerently nationalistic policy" tell me how we're not belligerently nationalistic with some of our "this is our lifestyle and we're keeping it no matter what" tripe.

The two parties are a joke. We need representatives. Real ones. No lobbying, nada...people who represent the people. Or we will have true fascism.

Fullback · May 19, 2009

The US doesn't fulfill Webster's definition. The dictator part is the only one missing, right now...

Dommo · May 19, 2009

That's where I come in. Give me another 10 years, and you can all bow down before me, as I lead our great nation to victory.

Don Allen · May 19, 2009

ad_lucem said:
Don't think anyone is saying that's "so much better" more of a..."we'd better watch our butts or we'll have that".

There are some serious weeds growing in the garden of democracy:

1) Bail-outs to failed banks who just so happen to be deeply tied to our elected officials.

Banks are failing because BIG BUSINESS managed to persuade a lot of legislators from the Carter administration through the Bush administration that safe guards such as the famously repealed Glass/Stegal act were not needed in a free market........Bullshit!!!!!! BIG BUSINESS was wrong, and a free market needs regulations so that BIG BUSINESS doesn't trip on it's own appendage like it has now and needs a bailout, um that's not a weed of democracy, it's UNCHECKED GREED.

2) Central banks--not run by the gov but in cahoots. Inflation is a tax.

The government has had a federal reserve for a very long time, The fed reserve is a BIG BANK and we've done fine, but again I point you to de-regulation and people running amok, that finds us in a situation where the GOVERNMENT has been FORCED to assume some sort of control over these monoliths or risk destroying the economic fiber of the nation and possibly the world for years and years to come, again not caused by GOVERNMENT NEED, but by BANKER AND INDIVIDUAL GREED

3) "belligerently nationalistic policy" tell me how we're not belligerently nationalistic with some of our "this is our lifestyle and we're keeping it no matter what" tripe.I don't understand what the hell you're talking about here.

The two parties are a joke. We need representatives. Real ones. No lobbying, nada...people who represent the people. Or we will have true fascism.

Lobby's need to be regulated better, AGREED, If you want better representatives I suggest you get more people with your views to VOTE instead of sitting at home bitching about the people who won, because they didn't VOTE.

No... Go back and read the definition again. Trust me on this, you don't want fascism in any form, and we don't have it in any form except the Federal prison system which practices it daily.

Don Allen · May 19, 2009

Fullback said:
The US doesn't fulfill Webster's definition. The dictator part is the only one missing, right now...

The sad part is that 75 years ago in your country I don't believe you would have been able to express that opinion, fascism has a way of muting Freedom of Speech. The American political system is certainly not perfect, and neither are Americans, but the American Constitution is about as near perfect a set of laws that has ever been created by man,,, if you're of the mind that the 10 Commandments was the word of God.

I don't care that you debate the merits of Fascism or even suggest that in some way America may seem to employ Fascist tendency's, but Americans don't have numbers burned into their skins, heads lopped off in public places, or practice forms of genocide on our neighbors because we're bigger than they are, and Fascist's do...

Fascism is the epitome of evil based exclusively on NATIONALISM, (We're better than you because we're WHITE, BLACK, MUSLIM, CATHOLIC, ATHEIST, whatever, this argument is silly, and to discuss it any further is sillier, goodnight....

ad_lucem · May 19, 2009

Don Allen said:
Lobby's need to be regulated better, AGREED, If you want better representatives I suggest you get more people with your views to VOTE instead of sitting at home bitching about the people who won, because they didn't VOTE.

No... Go back and read the definition again. Trust me on this, you don't want fascism in any form, and we don't have it in any form except the Federal prison system which practices it daily.

Look, I contact my congresscritter whenever something pisses me off. I do. And as for my hometown rep. I actually voted for him because he listened to his constituents consistently. I'm an asshole protester, even, when the moment is right (not when it becomes fashionable--I was protesting the Iraq war in 2002/2003 before there was the mess we have now). Although, I haven't gone out with the tea-baggers because of the assclownery and lack of direction in the movement.

The problem is in the "big time" of presidential elections, my choices have been, as Southpark once pointed out, the option of a giant douchebag or a shitsandwich. I know, I know, of two evils elect the lesser, but C'MON...I'd like to vote for somebody I didn't think was a shitsandwich or giant douche. I've registered Rep and Dem even to try and get in on the stupid pre-election process.

I actually drug the kids to an Obama rally hoping to hear something more than rhetoric.

Federal prison system is a dangerous blight on democracy, but I won't go there. I have horror stories.

We need to fear the corporate interests and fight them with fascism in the back of our minds because it's always there. It's always waiting--even in a democracy.

Any attempt to squash dissent or okay torture is evil trying to get a grab at power. In a declining empire, this is particularly true (and we are in a state of decline presently...barring actions to circumvent it...just take a minute to think about China's recent currency moves).

I don't feel like I have a stake in my government, because I don't have the money to play. I think a lot of people feel this way. I'm not anti-Obama or anti-left...I'm actually more left than right, but I don't really feel "home" in either party.

Lots of presidents have done naughty things...all the way back to Madison with the Alien and Sedition Acts (every bit as unconstitutional in flavor as the Patriot Act).

Democracy, true democracy needs constant tending for weeds. Weeds are human nature. Our founding fathers (nutty tho they may have been at times) knew it when they set up the three branches of government.

Calling the country facist, while a step over the line of current reality, is still a reasonable warning cry given the moves being played at the moment.

MattW · May 19, 2009

Don said:
Um, Janet Jackson? Any award ceremony that involves a red carpet?

Depending on the camera angle as they get out of their cars, we see much more than a nipple.

ad_lucem · May 19, 2009

Dommo said:
That's where I come in. Give me another 10 years, and you can all bow down before me, as I lead our great nation to victory.

Actually, I'm hoping in another 10 years our country will fully oust bullshit from the halls of power or at least stick it in a playpen at the back corner of the whitehouse.

But the people had better wake up, place money on the back burner and value something real for a change...

cethklein · May 20, 2009

Zoombie said:
You have no idea what living in a fascist dictatorship is like.

Agreed. I immediately stop taking seriously anyone who uses words like fascist and dictatorship to describe America or most other nations in the West. I know people who lived under all three of those things, including relatives. to use such terms simply to emphasize one's point is not only juvenile, it borders on absurd and is an insult to the millions of victims of fascism and dictatorships.

Go live in North Korea, Cuba, Iran, or even China and then come back and tell us how "fascist" you think America is. Go live in a nation that mandates who is allowed to drink milk and what you're allowed to say about the government (like Cuba) or that mandates how many children you can have or what you're allowed to read and watch (China, Iran) or that controls you completely (North Korea).

Go find someone who lived in Italy during the late 30s and ask them if they think America is fascist.

MordechaiGoodbuds · May 20, 2009

Zoombie,

You completely ignored my point.

Yes, we have civil rights in American fascism, but we have no real political choice.

Don Allen,

You're wrong. We do have a dictator in this country and it's called big business. The political leaders are merely puppet heads of the business interests.

The real definition of fascism is a system in which business is married to government.

That's exactly what the United States is.

Gretad08 · May 20, 2009

cethklein said:
Agreed. I immediately stop taking seriously anyone who uses words like fascist and dictatorship to describe America or most other nations in the West. I know people who lived under all three of those things, including relatives. to use such terms simply to emphasize one's point is not only juvenile, it borders on absurd and is an insult to the millions of victims of fascism and dictatorships.

Go live in North Korea, Cuba, Iran, or even China and then come back and tell us how "fascist" you think America is. Go live in a nation that mandates who is allowed to drink milk and what you're allowed to say about the government (like Cuba) or that mandates how many children you can have or what you're allowed to read and watch (China, Iran) or that controls you completely (North Korea).

Go find someone who lived in Italy during the late 30s and ask them if they think America is fascist.

You get a trophy for this post! Well said CethKlein!

Captshady · May 20, 2009

Politicians and Political Scientists are often using the term "European Socialism" to describe the nanny state like governments of Europe, with more government controlled industry than the U.S. Some have their military doing the work of what municipal law enforcement does here.

Forgive my taking those educated in Political Sciences word over anyone's here. Socialism doesn't always mean you're under the thumb of a single tyrant.

Romantic Heretic · May 20, 2009

I don't regard wikipedia as the 'true source' of all knowledge either. But that portion I linked does fit with my understanding of the link between fascism and corporatism.

And in regards to capitalism prefering non-democratic governments, let's take a little look at history.

The first high point of capitalism in the U.S. was when slavery was still extant and the franchise was limited pretty much to white men with property. The second high point was the Gilded Age, when minorities and women still didn't have the vote or the right to run for office. And many people in the U.S. were recent immigrants who weren't yet citizens. Democracy was at a nadir in these times.

Capitalism wasn't happy when the Depression made a lot more people politically active and bought Roosevelt into power. It remained unhappy until Nixon. At that time fewer and fewer people became politically active. Now, what is it? Barely half bother to vote for President and far less vote for the Congress, Senate, state and municipal offices. And the business community has been pretty pleased with that.

In Britain the high point was at the start of the Industrial Revolution, when it was in the grip of the 'Rotten Borough' system. Voting wasn't secret and Lords bought the voters and could check how they voted. The vote was severely limited. Place with just a few hundred voters sent Members to Parliament and large cities like Manchester did not. But it was a great time for capitalism.

In France capitalism did best under Napoleon III and Louis-Napoleon, who were dictators. In Russia the last Czar oversaw a huge increase in capitalist activity.

And as I noted, capitalism is very pleased with China.

And if capitalism likes democracy so much, why are there no businesses organized along democratic lines?

You can disagree, and I know many will. But capitalism, in my opinion, doesn't care much for democracy.

mscelina · May 20, 2009

Rob,you are wrong. So inutterably and ridiculously wrong that it pains me to even write it.

Capitalism is about free trade. Capitalism is dependent upon governments that encourage free trade. Democracy encourages free trade. To say that because 'businesses aren't set up along democratic lines' means that capitalism is akin to fascism is ill-informed. Actually, if you wanted to get particular about it, corporations with voting stockholders are set up along democratic lines.

Read the definitions of fascism, capitalism, democracy and so forth and see if you can't learn any better.

The first high point of capitalism was slavery? c'mon already! try to remember (if you can) that the slavery trade was established and propogated by lots and lots of British sea captains and shipping companies, thank you very much. Feel free to overlook the Industrial Revolution, because that doesn't fit into your political viewpoint.

And for the last damn time, the US isn't a democracy. We are a democratic republic.

robeiae · May 20, 2009

Romantic Heretic said:
I don't regard wikipedia as the 'true source' of all knowledge either. But that portion I linked does fit with my understanding of the link between fascism and corporatism.

The corporatism that is linked to fascism is really an early modern system. It is--again--unrelated to modern corporate structures. They just both share the same latin root word. Here's a good overview:

http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/corporatism.htm

And here's a thread where I've gone through this, before (start at post 130):

http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92384&page=6

And in regards to capitalism prefering non-democratic governments, let's take a little look at history.

The first high point of capitalism in the U.S. was when slavery was still extant and the franchise was limited pretty much to white men with property.

You don't have a clear understanding of capitalism. This is simply not true, in the way you want it to be.

Slavery was not a "high point" for capitalism, at all. It was a dead end and really not even capitalist in orientation. The U.S. was not really a wealthy nation while slavery was extant. And what wealth it did have was growing--thanks to capitalism--in the NORTH, where slavery was not a dominant institution.

Slavery as an economic institution functions like peasant and serf-based economies: wealth is tightly held and not used as CAPITAL, by and large, thus capitalism is not relevant. There is no sustainable economic growth within the system. It requires resources from without to grow and merely sustain itself (resources like more slaves and more land). This is why wealth in the South was dissipating in the older areas, like Virginia. In contrast, the older regions of New England--like Boston and New York--were experiencing real growth and wealth was being CREATED, not just accumulated.

Capitalism functions best when there are free markets--in everything--and free markets are more common in societies with democratic institutions, not autocratic ones.

Diana Hignutt · May 20, 2009

ad_lucem said:
Lots of presidents have done naughty things...all the way back to Madison with the Alien and Sedition Acts (every bit as unconstitutional in flavor as the Patriot Act).

quote]

Yeah, that was Adams (John, pres #2), not Madison. As Mr. Madison's official representative to AW, I demand an apology.

ad_lucem · May 20, 2009

Diana Hignutt said:
ad_lucem said:

Lots of presidents have done naughty things...all the way back to Madison with the Alien and Sedition Acts (every bit as unconstitutional in flavor as the Patriot Act).

quote]

Yeah, that was Adams (John, pres #2), not Madison. As Mr. Madison's official representative to AW, I demand an apology.

Click to expand...

Ugh. Yes, Adams, I misspoke bigtime. Madison and Jefferson where the ones protesting it.

Too many dead white guys. They all look alike.

dclary · May 20, 2009

Diana Hignutt said:
ad_lucem said:

Lots of presidents have done naughty things...all the way back to Madison with the Alien and Sedition Acts (every bit as unconstitutional in flavor as the Patriot Act).

quote]

Yeah, that was Adams (John, pres #2), not Madison. As Mr. Madison's official representative to AW, I demand an apology.

Click to expand...

You're giving away your age, hun.

robeiae · May 20, 2009

Diana Hignutt said:
As Mr. Madison's official representative to AW, I demand an apology.

I believe that job is mine.

You may be Mr. Jefferson's official representative, however. Besides, Madison is too much of a Hobbesian for you...

MattW · May 20, 2009

As long as no one is defending Hamilton, we can keep the pistols locked in their case....

Stew21 · May 20, 2009

Careful or Andrew Jackson might rise from the grave and challenge you to a duel.

The U.S. is a one-party fascist dictatorship

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