Opening of Historical Fiction

My one and only partial on my previous book was rejected because of the "leisurely pace" of the first two chapters.

Perhaps I'm in the wrong frame of mind to be responding to this thread but, my guess is that, if you haven't got:

a murder
car chase
werewolf/vampire/ghost/insert other paranormal creature of choice here
stuka dive bomber
beheading
ritual disemboweling
open heart surgery

etc etc

in the first page or two

you're knackered.

We're having to write for the MTV generation who like instant gratification and information/entertainment ground up into digestible 3 minute bites.

Right, crawling back into my pit of rejection and dejection now.

eta. According to one agent I asked, Tudor stuff is hot, as are 'historical figures' and Scotsmen. So semi-naked Scotsmen running around in kilts are probably worth thinking about.

OpheliaRevived said:

What sort of beginning are agents looking for in this genre? Action packed? Descriptive? Perhaps even dialogue? Are there different "rules" that lean towards a work of Historical Fiction being written like classic novels, or do the "modern rules" apply? I'm interested in writing a "grouping" of novels that are historical fiction, but would be "modern reader" friendly. Not "dumbed down", per se, but the pace would be quicker.

Click to expand...

If you're writing for modern readers, then you need to start it like a modern novel, regardless of genre--which means you open with a story question that makes the readers want to keep reading. How you present that story question is totally up to where you want to start your story. Whatever works, it's all been done before so there's no right or wrong answer.

For what it is worth, I opened my HF with an assassination based on personal vengeance.

I'd like to know myself.

My ancient historical is in modern language. I tried different approach, but kept falling asleep on my laptop.

I'm so MTV.

Yes! I worry about this all the time. My opinion (right now, anyway) is that you don't need to have a vampire drinking blood from a ritual disemboweling during a car chase, but that it's crucial that something important be at stake in that first chapter.

Looking at Cold Mountain, the first line is, "At the first gesture of morning, the flies began stirring." That's a dreamily strange opening, but it's not va va voom or anything. But during that first chapter, you find out a lot is at stake for Inman. His health, his sound mind, his chance to desert.

But the ambience and characterization in that book are phenomenal. And that's important, I think. I've generally found that people who read historical want to find a genuine world with genuine people in the pages. Anyone who loves history has wished they could have been witness to it, lived within it. Historical readers seem more patient than most others. This doesn't mean your first chapters shouldn't be gripping in some way or another, but a historical reader doesn't seem to want zombies or a car chase. They want the Somme or ancient Britain or the American Civil War.

So, open with something at stake.

And yeah, Tudors are always hot, because people associate them with tight bodices, glam royalty and illicit affairs (i.e., romance novels.) But God only knows how many Tudor paperbacks I've shelved in my tenure, and saturation has got to come soon enough.

selkn.asrai said:

Yes! I worry about this all the time. My opinion (right now, anyway) is that you don't need to have a vampire drinking blood from a ritual disemboweling during a car chase, but that it's crucial that something important be at stake in that first chapter.

Looking at Cold Mountain, the first line is, "At the first gesture of morning, the flies began stirring." That's a dreamily strange opening, but it's not va va voom or anything. But during that first chapter, you find out a lot is at stake for Inman. His health, his sound mind, his chance to desert.

But the ambience and characterization in that book are phenomenal. And that's important, I think. I've generally found that people who read historical want to find a genuine world with genuine people in the pages. Anyone who loves history has wished they could have been witness to it, lived within it. Historical readers seem more patient than most others. This doesn't mean your first chapters shouldn't be gripping in some way or another, but a historical reader doesn't seem to want zombies or a car chase. They want the Somme or ancient Britain or the American Civil War.

So, open with something at stake.

And yeah, Tudors are always hot, because people associate them with tight bodices, glam royalty and illicit affairs (i.e., romance novels.) But God only knows how many Tudor paperbacks I've shelved in my tenure, and saturation got to come soon enough.

Click to expand...

I agree with everything that you say. However, I've yet to find an Agent who feels the same way. Hence my foul mood today.

firedrake said:

I agree with everything that you say. However, I've yet to find an Agent who feels the same way. Hence my foul mood today.

Click to expand...

I often wonder if agents do feel the same way, but purses need to be filled first.

In which case, we need to pass out the drinks stat. We're in for a major crash.

*flatline*

firedrake said:

So semi-naked Scotsmen running around in kilts are probably worth thinking about.

Click to expand...

Absolutely!

Oh, wait. You meant for a story...

Silly me.

san_remo_ave said:

Absolutely!

Oh, wait. You meant for a story...

Silly me.

Click to expand...

hahahahahahahaha!!

Sadly, not likely to happen where I live!

Have just...

received my HNS May issues of Review and Solander today.

Inside is a 'What the Agents are looking for'. It's agent, Irene Goodman, of New York.

I do have to grumble here. You'd never know that over half the members of HNS are not American now we have an American editor and subeditors of the journals. It's filled with all American stuff, American interviews, American fiction, as though the rest of us don't exist. It would have been easy to use an American and a UK agent and give us the bigger picture.

Still here you are, firedrake.

Ms Goodman is looking for 'what we can sell.'
Her example of choice, two good scripts, one about (yet again!!!) Lady Jane Grey, the other about an Oregon banker in the 19thC.

She buys Lady Jane Grey. (Boring!!!)
She says bankers are not interesting or sexy enough for the reader!

I quote:
'American History is a tough sell unless it is about an iconic fictional character or...it is about something much more commercial.'

Drs are sexy, bankers aren't.
Tudors are, as are the mistress of any British King.

Salable topics are:
Seafaring, courtesans, scandals, Bubonic plague, executions and forced marriages!

Sex sells.

Countries for settings?
England, France, Italy,Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Asia only if you 'have a great hook.'

The Red Tent wicked twist always works well in the genre.

Top tips from Ms. Goodman were:

High quality writing,
Stick with the marque names or events.
If the story is someone's life remember to have a great plot and narrative drive. It mustn't read like a biography.
AND
Look for subjects which haven't been overdone unless you have a very new fresh twist.

This last had me falling about as all she's said previously has been about producing a boring old, same old thing, pot boiler.

However in my British 'Writing' magazine last month the newest trends in publishing were examined. Various UK publishers talked about what they wanted in fiction. For Historical fiction I was cheered to see that 'the use of ordinary people as MCs rather than well known historical figures' and 'making history around the real events of ordinary lives' were two positive factors they were looking for in a novel.

Above all came the plea for above average, outstanding quality writing. See why I nag you all in SYW?

pdr said:

received my HNS May issues of Review and Solander today.

Inside is a 'What the Agents are looking for'. It's agent, Irene Goodman, of New York.

I do have to grumble here. You'd never know that over half the members of HNS are not American now we have an American editor and subeditors of the journals. It's filled with all American stuff, American interviews, American fiction, as though the rest of us don't exist. It would have been easy to use an American and a UK agent and give us the bigger picture.

Still here you are, firedrake.

Ms Goodman is looking for 'what we can sell.'
Her example of choice, two good scripts, one about (yet again!!!) Lady Jane Grey, the other about an Oregon banker in the 19thC.

She buys Lady Jane Grey. (Boring!!!)
She says bankers are not interesting or sexy enough for the reader!

I quote:
'American History is a tough sell unless it is about an iconic fictional character or...it is about something much more commercial.'

Drs are sexy, bankers aren't.
Tudors are, as are the mistress of any British King.

Salable topics are:
Seafaring, courtesans, scandals, Bubonic plague, executions and forced marriages!

Sex sells.

Countries for settings?
England, France, Italy,Scotland, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Asia only if you 'have a great hook.'

The Red Tent wicked twist always works well in the genre.

Top tips from Ms. Goodman were:

High quality writing,
Stick with the marque names or events.
If the story is someone's life remember to have a great plot and narrative drive. It mustn't read like a biography.
Look for subjects which haven't been overdone unless you have a very new fresh twist.

This last had me falling about as all she's said previously has been about producing a boring old, same old thing, pot boiler.

However in my British 'Writing' magazine last month the newest trends in publishing were examined. Various UK publishers talked about what they wanted in fiction. For Historical fiction I was cheered to see that 'the use of ordinary people as MCs rather than well known historical figures' and 'making history around the real events of ordinary lives' were two positive factors they were looking for in a novel.

Above all came the plea for above average, outstanding quality writing. See why I nag you all in SYW?

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that pdr. The last paragraph is very heartening. I've decided that, in spite of the inconvenience, I'm going to query UK agents. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I needn't have bothered querying Ms. Goodman, which I did earlier this week.

thanks for this, pdr.

The Red Tent, god! I wept for four days straight. Anita is supernatural.

Great post, pdr.

Interesting how she says "sex sells" and differentiates sexy characters from non-sexy. An agent whose blog I frequent also said recently that editors are asking her for "sexy", and she mentioned historicals when she blogged about this.
So maybe our recent threads have been useful as well as fun!

I was also heartened to see your point from the UK about ordinary people and real events of everyday lives being positives. *wipes brow*

Not sure how the ancient world fares with all of this, but I do know that I've been reading the HNS reviews every month for a while now, and I have not seen one book set in ancient Sparta. I suppose that could be either a plus or a minus! We'll find out.

Interesting stuff.

c.e.

Can you good people give me a link to HNS thing? I want to read too. thanks

Hi Phaedo,

I get the HNS newsletter in my email through Yahoo groups. It's been so long since I signed up for it, I can't remember how I did it! I'll forward my most recent email to you. It doesn't have all of the goodies like pdr mentioned, including Solander, because I'm not an HNS member and get nothing in paper, but the email does have reviews of recent releases, both fiction and non fiction.

c.e.

oh thank you so much, c.e. it would be wonderful. please email me and I'll try to figure out the way to sign up.



ETA: just got it! thanks, I will!

OpheliaRevived said:

What sort of beginning are agents looking for in this genre? Action packed? Descriptive? Perhaps even dialogue? Are there different "rules" that lean towards a work of Historical Fiction being written like classic novels, or do the "modern rules" apply? I'm interested in writing a "grouping" of novels that are historical fiction, but would be "modern reader" friendly. Not "dumbed down", per se, but the pace would be quicker.

Click to expand...

Interesting question that I pondered for my first historical and again on my WIP. Both are set BC--so I can't do car crashes, sniper assassinations, nitro explosions. My first landed a very fine NYC agent who has sold lots in this down market, and "we" are now on sub, but it has not been an easy sale by any means. My first (the one on sub) starts with stuff most folks don't know, stuff of animals in ancient India--but not sudden carnage. Plenty of that comes later, and is only suggested here and there in the first chapter. I'll know soon whether this is good enough for today's market--not the real market, of course, but the market that young folks in NYC think they like and can sell. The only true judge is the actual market, but no one knows how it will react until it actually reacts.

Feel free to PM me if you want more details about my journey and what I might have learned or unlearned. And if any of you is going to the HNS conf. next month, I'll see you there. g.

The website is:

http://www.historicalnovelsociety.org/

and you can see some reviews.

Alas the website does have self published, publish America and stuff but you can join up there.

Yes, it is expensive.

I was told my opening was too slow. I honestly hate the maxim that books MUST start with something really really exciting happening. I think it's lame, I really do. I like books that create a tone and setting a little bit first before the fireworks, and I really dislike being thrown directly into the acion when I read. I like to write the same way. It's frustrating to me. I know I need to capture people's attention right off the bat and that makes sense. But I really don't think explosions and firecrackers are necessary.

In a historical, I think it's more important and should be more acceptable to set up the scene a little bit before jumping into the story.

But I'm not an agent now am I (not yet at least)?

*grumble grumble*

pdr said:

Salable topics are:
Seafaring, courtesans, scandals, Bubonic plague, executions and forced marriages!

Click to expand...

Seafaring? Yay, I'm on the fast track to the best seller lists!

Sex sells.

Click to expand...

Rats! I've been deliberately making my guys unsexy. I mean, aren't we all sick of handsome, dashing pirate captains?

There's a rule of thumb in the speculative fiction community, which also seems fitting here:

If you don't have an engaging hook in the first 13 lines (average first page, in short form), you better have exceptionally good prose.

Click to expand...

On the other hand, my current WIP has a prostitute, a gigolo, a scandal, a heist, people in disguise, pretty clothes, sex, and diamonds.

So . . .

Go me?

Or maybe, "Go history"?