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Thread: Meyers fanfic writer's *conditional* apology

  1. #276
    Brony level >9000 Nivarion's Avatar
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    You know, if that is the origional address she put in there then it would mean that she knew from the start that what she is doing is wrong.

    I suspect that she knows, and doesn't care. Maybe she has heard stories of what happens to you in prison and wants some of that. I just really don't know anymore.This is beyond a study of the insane for me anymore. This is just, well its just sad now.
    Hey, I'm back after, like, months! Almost a year even!

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  2. #277
    Ever onward Horserider's Avatar
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    SAY NO! She even says she knew it was wrong and she STILL DID IT!

    First and foremost, I want to apologize to you for having started such an uproar. In all honesty, I never imagined there would be so strong and massive a reaction on the part of Twilight fans all over the Internet.
    *snorts* As if! Lucky there wasn't some kind of angry mob.
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  3. #278
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    Yes, all over the Internet. Big hairy deal.

    About 100 people, give or take, many of them not Twifans, many posting multiple comments, so it looks like there's more than there are.

    She's become an attention junkie. The more she ignores common sense, the more we can't believe it, the more egoboos she feels.

    That's sad.

    I'm glad the under-18 princess dodged that bullet. I'd hate it if she'd ended up like the Spud.

  4. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momento Mori View Post
    If someone had come back to a C&D letter that I'd sent saying "You're absolutely right, I am infringing your client's work and I'm really sorry about it. But here's the thing, I'd like to go ahead and print 50 copies of my work and give them to friends and family. Please tell me what you want me to do" then I suppose she could try arguing that this was tacit consent.
    A nonsense argument, since you don't have to do anything to assert your copyright rights once you've published. And this individual has already admitted that she knows it's wrong.

    How'd this one be?

    Dear Microsoft,

    I really admire your company and I know I shouldn't have cracked your software but I don't plan to make any money out of it and I just want to give it to five friends for free. I hope you don't mind and if I don't hear from you by next Tuesday, I'll assume it's okay.

    Keep up the good work!

    Phred Phisher.

  5. #280
    Brony level >9000 Nivarion's Avatar
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    a few ideas on why little brown's Vampires and Werewolves have not had a party, with Lady S. as the pinata.

    They all took a trip to Cuba, where they had their passports stolen. They are waiting for the U.S. Embassy to get them new ones.

    They took a trip to Hawaii, And lost their cash and tickets.

    They are laughing their arses off at the stupidity of this woman.

    They are waiting for her to really incriminate herself so that they can have a witch burning for all the fanficcers to see.

    They took a trip to north Korea and are currently in prison for 'spying.'

    Smeyer is getting back at the cruel world for leaking and spreading her unfinished book, Russet Noon is her equivalent of Atlanta Nights, And Lady S. is her equiv. of Travis T.

    Little Brown is looking for new lawyers, For the incompetence of the last set.

    The U.S. Govt is really wondering why US lawyers would be in Cuba...

    The Lawyers are reading 1984 and trying to figure out how 2+2=5

    They are stuck at an extensive going away party for Fidel.

    Or my last one, The just SUCK at what they do.
    Hey, I'm back after, like, months! Almost a year even!

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  6. #281
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    Ruv Draba:
    A nonsense argument, since you don't have to do anything to assert your copyright rights once you've published. And this individual has already admitted that she knows it's wrong.
    Yup, I completely agree - it would be a nonsense argument, but it's always possible to raise it.

    MM

  7. #282
    Banned ladysybilla's Avatar
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    Damned if you do, damned if you don't . . . tsk tsk tsk

    My dear fellow human beings,

    My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is stronger than hate. I have a habit of stating things repeatedly and redundantly because it's a way of branding, or making an impression on what Derrida calls the "Transcendental Signified." You guys are intellectuals, you know what I'm talking about.

    My love shall overcome your hatred. I embrace opposition, I thrive on adversity, and this is the One Truth that gets me through it all. My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is stronger than hate. I am a survivor and I seek to evolve by adapting to adverse situations.

    I came to visit you today to thank y'all for raising the stakes of the game of life for me. The crucifixion of my work shall lead to its glorious resurrection.

    But the one thing I'm most grateful for is the complete and utter destruction of my self importance. This is the way to become a "man [or woman] of knowledge" according to Don Juan's teachings in Carlos Castañeda's The Fire from Within.

    My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is more powerful than hate. Go ahead and crucify my work. My writing is an open book for the whole world to read, plagiarize, bastardize, ridicule, violate and ultimately crucify.

    Just remember that, in the end, my work shall withstand it all. My love shall overcome your hatred. There is no attack that can prevail against love.

    Russet Noon is already embedded in the Transcendental Signified, and no amount of pitchforks, torches or petitions will be able to erase it. It is firmly sealed in the Akashic Records.

    Oh, and did I forget to mention that my love shall overcome your hatred?

    Regards,
    Glorianna Arias a.k.a Lady Sybilla

  8. #283
    Rewriting My Destiny Cyia's Avatar
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    Anyone want to start a count on how long the plugging of a piece of ILLEGAL writing is going to last in this thread?

    (I'm speaking of the book cover, of course)
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  9. #284
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    Wow. Just... wow.

    (The only thing I could post without being quite rude.)
    Last edited by Calla Lily; 06-13-2009 at 06:11 AM.

  10. #285
    Be right back, going to write a 'tribute novel' to Harry Potter wherein Harry Potter is the BDSM gimp of Dumbledore. I think this will go over well.




    Regardless of what I think of Twilight, it blows my mind that anyone would think they can write a 'sequel' to someone else's book and not get an explosive reaction.

    Sweet jesus, is this the beginning of people trying to publish fan fiction as a going proposition?

  11. #286
    The Tony Award-winning TemlynWriting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladysybilla View Post
    My dear fellow human beings,

    My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is stronger than hate. I have a habit of stating things repeatedly and redundantly because it's a way of branding, or making an impression on what Derrida calls the "Transcendental Signified." You guys are intellectuals, you know what I'm talking about.

    My love shall overcome your hatred. I embrace opposition, I thrive on adversity, and this is the One Truth that gets me through it all. My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is stronger than hate. I am a survivor and I seek to evolve by adapting to adverse situations.

    I came to visit you today to thank y'all for raising the stakes of the game of life for me. The crucifixion of my work shall lead to its glorious resurrection.

    But the one thing I'm most grateful for is the complete and utter destruction of my self importance. This is the way to become a "man [or woman] of knowledge" according to Don Juan's teachings in Carlos Castañeda's The Fire from Within.

    My love shall overcome your hatred. Love is more powerful than hate. Go ahead and crucify my work. My writing is an open book for the whole world to read, plagiarize, bastardize, ridicule, violate and ultimately crucify.

    Just remember that, in the end, my work shall withstand it all. My love shall overcome your hatred. There is no attack that can prevail against love.

    Russet Noon is already embedded in the Transcendental Signified, and no amount of pitchforks, torches or petitions will be able to erase it. It is firmly sealed in the Akashic Records.

    Oh, and did I forget to mention that my love shall overcome your hatred?

    Regards,
    Glorianna Arias a.k.a Lady Sybilla
    Wow. Someone's taken one too many literary theory classes. Sounds a bit like my pretentious college roommate and her name-dropping.

    And Twilight itself is not even considered classic literature, yet you make it sound like Russet Noon will stand out among literary classics. A "tribute novel" surely can't outdo its predecessor. It's a teen angst vampire romance novel. Not the stuff that most literary classics are made of.

    By the way, we don't hate you. We just wish you could understand and respect the basics of copyright and plagiarism.
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  12. #287
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladysybilla View Post
    Go ahead and crucify my work.
    Write something original that's not based on another writer's hard work and you can get feedback in the Share Your Work forum, the same as any other AW member.

    Be informed, the moderators will remove fan fiction. This forum is for serious writers looking to improve their craft. While there are fan fic writers here, the posting of such is in violation of the copyright holder's ownership.

    Lady Syb, no one gives a rat's arse about your writing. Really, they don't.

    It's you ignoring the copyright of Stephenie Meyer that pissed everyone off.


    How many times do the Twi-fans and non-fans have to repeat that to you until you finally get it?

    It's not rocket science. Most grade school kids figure out with only one explanation.

    I'm sure that since you're such an intellectual that you'll be able to wrap your head around it, too!

    Copyright 101
    - written especially for fan fic writers!

    10 Big Myths About Copyright Explained
    .
    Last edited by Gillhoughly; 06-13-2009 at 07:47 AM.

  13. #288
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    And before things escalate, I will remind everyone that the moderators take a dim view of flame wars.

    That's why we love AW. Flame wars and trolling are Not The Done Thing here.



    Let's keep things on topic: respect of copyright ownership and educating young writers in copyright law.



    No personal attacks on the Syb. None. Otherwise I'll ask for this thread to be locked.

    If she posts something in SYW, leave the same sort of feedback as you would for any other AW member.

    .
    Last edited by Gillhoughly; 06-13-2009 at 07:48 AM.

  14. #289
    The grad students did it NeuroFizz's Avatar
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    Thank you for posting, ladyS. I am curious about your frequently repeated phrase of love overcoming hatred. And this is not a personal attack in any way, but rather an attempt at clarification of your thinking on the issue at hand, particularly with the you versus them/love versus hatred scenario you have so clearly set up.

    This is all about a legal issue regarding copyright law.

    And this is all about an ethical issue regarding copyright law.

    In your love-hatred dichotomy, how do the two opposites line up with the legal/illegal dichotomy and with the ethical/unethical dichotomy that this issue raises?

    In the case of the legality of the fanfic, does your love line up with the legal side of the issue and the hatred line up with the illegal side of the issue? Or is it possible your love is lining up with the illegal side of the issue and hatred with those who seek the legal side? If you view those who are defending the legality of copyright law as the haters, you are actually promoting the latter view.

    Same with the ethical situation. Does your love line up with the ethical side of the copyright issue and hatred align with the unethical (in your mind), or does love line up with the unethical and hatred with the those who support the ethics of copyright law?

    I'm trying to find out if you feel the anticipated triumph of your love over hatred means the people who are defending the legality and ethics of copyright law represent the hatred side of your dichotomy, which would suggest that you might actually think that what you are doing is clearly legal and ethical. If this is so, do you welcome a resolution through the legal system, or is that system part of the hatred side as well?
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  15. #290
    Banned ladysybilla's Avatar
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    Talking The Interpretation of Copyright Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by NeuroFizz View Post

    I'm trying to find out if you feel the anticipated triumph of your love over hatred means the people who are defending the legality and ethics of copyright law represent the hatred side of your dichotomy, which would suggest that you might actually think that what you are doing is clearly legal and ethical. If this is so, do you welcome a resolution through the legal system, or is that system part of the hatred side as well?
    Sure, I'll be more than happy to explain. First off, I'd like to thank you guys for being so civilized in your responses. It is necessary for people to disagree on issues, that's how the human race accumulates knowledge.

    As for my take on copyright laws, I'd like to clarify first of all that I have been trying to do my best to abide by them. This is the reason I issued refunds to every single one of the people who preordered my novel on eBay.

    I did this even though some of them didn't want a refund and were willing to wait until September to receive the novel. I still went ahead and refunded their money even though some of them ignored my request to cancel the transaction.

    By publishing the fanfic for free on my site, I am trying to demonstrate that I do consider myself to be just another fanfic writer. Given that Stephenie Meyer allows her fans to publish fanfics/fanarts online, I am operating within what is acceptable to her and her publisher.

    My conscience is clear because I haven't made a penny from this endeavor, not even from click conversions to my affiliates, as no one ever clicks on my ads. So my question is, how is this any different from publishing my novel as a paperback?

    My publishing company is the one financing the project entirely, and I plan on giving away every single copy I print for free. How does this differ from publishing online for free? If anything, publishing 50 copies of the book will reach a much smaller audience than it will if published online.

    So why is the idea so unsettling? If SMeyer & LB have no problem with fanfics being published online, why should they have a problem with fanfics being published as books? As long as the project is being financed privately without being sold, my conscience is clear.

    As for the love/hate dichotomy, what I mean is that I have love for all my fellow human beings because I believe that we are all connected in the great circle of life. I have learned the hard way that I must never hold grudges, let alone try to retaliate for whatever aggression (physical or verbal) that is directed against me.

    Please don't think that I'm trying to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude. As I said in my previous post, all the criticism and ridicule that I've endured for writing Russet Noon has completely destroyed my self-importance. It has humbled me, and I've grown as a person as a result of this.

    My letter to Stephenie was sincere. I do love her characters and have a great admiration for her as a writer. Sure, her work might not be part of the literary canon right now, but 100 years from now, who knows? After all, literary icons like Jane Austen and Mary Shelley were the equivalent of pop-culture writers back when their work was first published.

    What I refer to as hatred is when people judge others like they themselves are perfect. It's fine to express your opinion and criticize, but why try to shut down my website? Why start a petition to stop me from giving away a few copies of a self-published novel? That's what I refer to as hatred.

    Why not let SMeyer and Little, Brown deal with this matter themselves if it's such a scandalous crime? Has it occured to you that maybe they don't "give a rat's ass" about me or my novel, and that's why they're ignoring the whole issue?

    Believe me, they have plenty of legal resources to come after me. I'm just a bug they can crush in one second if they really wanted to. But the reason they're not bothering with me is because they know I'm harmless. And, above all, they'd end up losing a lot of money in legal fees just to find out that I'm not even employed full time and own no properties whatsoever. So then the only thing they can do is either throw me in jail or attach my working-class wages.

    And guess what's going to happen if they throw me in jail??? First of all, I'm going to keep writing, then giving my associates my work so they can publish it. Prisoners are allowed to write books in jail. That's something no one can take from me. I will write even if it's from a jail cell, I will write and nobody can stop me from doing it. And don't even get me started on the massive amount of publicity my book would receive if giants like SMeyer and Little, Brown were to sue me.

    Heck, just look at what happens when a rapper gets arrested. They wind up selling a lot more records! Why? Because the public loves scandals. It's the good ol' principle of reverse psychology. Tell them not to read a book, and that's precisely the first thing they're going to do just because humans are instinctually attracted to anything taboo.

    So my love/hate dichotomy applies to those who feel compelled to enforce THEIR OWN interpretation of copyright laws. Laws are there to be interpreted by judges and attorneys. Let them handle it and please chillax. Enjoy your life and give love to attract love from your environment.

    Legality and ethics are subjective. Each person has their own moral code. That's why Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King, Jr. got arrested. That's why black African Americans and females once had to protest against laws that kept them from voting. Laws are flawed because humans are flawed. If this weren't true, there wouldn't be a need for Congress.

    Laws are in a constant state of flux. That's why Obama is president today. Laws are constantly changed and revised based on how the world evolves. The collective perception is constantly changing. What we view as "wrong" today can become the complete opposite ten years from now.

    I hope this explained my love/hate dichotomy. To conclude, I'd like to ask y'all to love and tolerate. Don't be so quick to point out other people's flaws and pay more attention to fixing your own flaws. No human is perfect.

    Instead of wasting so much of your valuable time and energy trying to condemn my novel and my interpretation of copyright laws, maybe go for a walk out in nature and dwell in thoughts that make you happy.

    Let SMeyer and Little, Brown handle this matter, and focus your energy on writing the next bestseller. I promise I won't be writing any fanfics about your novels.

  16. #291
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
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    I just don't have any words...they'll all get me banned and the thread locked. I will say this: it's about respect. If you really respected Stephanie Meyer and her work, you'd walk away and never publish the book.

    Look, I've got nothing against fan fic per se. There are places and times for it, and it can be a useful tool to a writer who is learning the craft. It's for a little fun, and publishing's dirty little secret. IT'S STILL NOT LEGAL. Taking it as far as you have shows, in fact, a complete LACK of respect for the law, the author, and her work.

    Using her as an inspiration for a completely original piece is different and proper. This is not about YOUR WRITING (which you keep harping on, for some reason) only your SUBJECT.
    Last edited by Christine N.; 06-13-2009 at 03:27 PM.
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  17. #292
    I've shown Ladysybilla the door. Plagiarism is a black-and-white issue as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't allow a fox to live in my chicken coop.
    Last edited by Rolling Thunder; 06-13-2009 at 04:03 PM.

  18. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ladysybilla View Post
    Legality and ethics are subjective. Each person has their own moral code.
    Actually, ethics aren't subjective if by that you mean personal; they're innately social -- we hold ourselves to account to each other for our behaviour. Am I looking after your interests to the extent that I should? Are you looking after mine to the degree that you ought? These are the fundamental questions of ethics. And legality is based on fact and precedent; it's nothing like as fluffy as you might want to believe.

    In this case, there's a weight of opinion that you are not looking after the interests of your fellow writers as they're looking after yours. Oddly, some of that opinion is even your own:
    I know I had no right to do this, no matter how much I loved your characters. I have no excuse for my actions.
    Here we are agreed. The weight of opinion of both writers and society at large -- and my own opinion -- is that you have no right to publish entertainment using the creations of another author without that author's consent. If you want to argue that such action is ethical then you must make account of it to society, not simply to yourself. The thing about love, LadyS is that if it doesn't entail self-sacrifice then it's just self-love.

    My personal position: feel free to feed the poor with food that's offered freely to you, food that's grown in commons, or food that you've grown yourself. Kindly stop stealing from your fellows and insisting that they must assert their right to enjoy the fruits of their own labour before you'll respect those rights.

    With regard to AW, it's a community built on trust and the trust in turn is built on scrupulous standards of ethical behaviour -- as I hope is the writing profession itself. You asked why other writers care... it's because they share community with you. Your actions are the measure of their trust. Your welcome in the community is a measure of their integrity.

    And that's why I want to make this point:

    To my mind, this particular behaviour falls far below that standard. I'll be absolutely blunt, Lady S: I see your actions as opportunistic and your justifications as lacking integrity. I don't believe that such behaviour belongs in a community where writers can share their work in trust and safety. I find myself unable to contribute any of my unpublished Intellectual Property to any forum that you read because I have literally no idea what you might do with it. Post it on your blog? Share it with a friend? Burn my FNASR in the name of love?

    A mantra for you:

    Love begins with self-sacrifice.
    Love steals not from others.
    Love is compassion for others.
    Love is putting others above oneself.

    And a passing observation: outrage is not hatred. It's just the world telling you that it's offended. It takes a very special kind of person to continue to put self-interest above blunt messages.

    My hope is that you won't continue to be that sort of person.

    ETA: Ninjad by RT. Thanks.

  19. #294
    haz a shiny new book cover Christine N.'s Avatar
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    Her argument is the same that we've heard before (she can't even come up with an original one of those!): leave me alone and concentrate on your own stuff. I've heard it a million times on the PA threads.

    If I turn a blind eye to something wrong or illegal, I'm just as culpable as the perpetrator. Sorry, no can do.
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  20. #295
    Doc says: Are ARCs nomable? AW Moderator Calla Lily's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Thunder View Post
    I've shown Ladysybilla the door. Plagiarism is a black-and-white issue as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't allow a fox to live in my chicken coop.
    Thanks, RT. You are an exemplary Mod.

  21. #296
    is away with the fairies emilycross's Avatar
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    *headdesk*

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  22. #297
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    Lady Sybilla said: I promise I won't be writing any fanfics about your novels
    Delighted to hear it. I and my various publishers would shut you down in a New York minute.

    Meyers can afford to ignore you. The rest of us can't and won't.

    You've not clicked on the links I provided, as they offer simple answers to the various questions you posed in what I suppose was an attempt at Socratic logic. The facts are so dreadfully inconvenient to getting your book in front of people.

    For the sake of brevity, the main question you posed is: What are you doing that's so bad?

    You stole from another writer's work. Sure, other fan fic writers do it, but that doesn't make it right...like shoplifting.

    You continue to publically (and it is embarrassing to see) ignore the fact that it IS theft.

    It sets a bad example for budding writers.

    As someone who's supposedly trying to be an English teacher, you should know better.

    As a writer you really should know better.

    Time and again you had the choice to walk away and make things right, but time and again you chose wrong.

    It's not about love or hate; it's about respecting another person's ownership of their work. Whether you stole from Meyers or an unknown doesn't matter.

    Stealing is stealing.

    Lady Sybilla said: What we view as "wrong" today can become the complete opposite ten years from now.
    True, but we are living in "today" where the laws are in operation, not a thieves' paradise in the future. When the copyright laws change, you go ahead and have a party. Since you don't like those laws, trot yourself over to Sacramento or DC with a petition and change them. Until then, wake up and smell the coffee.

    Rolling Thunder said: Plagiarism is a black-and-white issue as far as I'm concerned and I wouldn't allow a fox to live in my chicken coop.
    Amen.

    This isn't about love and hate, Syb.

    It's about respecting another person's ownership of their work, something you're apparently--for all your self-declared intellectual prowess--unable and unwilling to grasp.

    You're in the wrong. Everyone's figured that out but you.

    Lady Sybilla said: As for my take on copyright laws, I'd like to clarify first of all that I have been trying to do my best to abide by them.
    No, you have not, or none of us would be here and this thread would not exist.

    Lady Sybilla said: My conscience is clear because I haven't made a penny from this endeavor, not even from click conversions to my affiliates, as no one ever clicks on my ads. So my question is, how is this any different from publishing my novel as a paperback?
    The click ads are legal. Your book is not.

    It doesn't matter that you're giving it away for free, it is still copyright violation. (Hey, I boosted all this stuff from a store, but I gave it away, so that makes it all right! Not. )

    Lady Sybilla said: all the criticism and ridicule that I've endured for writing Russet Noon has completely destroyed my self-importance.
    Clearly that has been an epic fail. You've not learned a danged thing in the last few months.

    Again--no one cares about your writing or which writer you stole from.

    It's you ignoring copyright law that's been so annoying.

    As you are fond of redundancy I'll repeat it: It's you ignoring copyright law that's been so annoying.

    If you ever are prosecuted, you won't be thrown in jail, so please don't try comparing yourself to Cervantes, who wrote in jail--he was also a victim of copyright theft, BTW.

    Violation of copyright is a civil matter--look it up on that "10 Myths" link I provided.

    Violators are hit in the pocketbook. The court will judge what sort of financial damages to award the injured party.

    I'm sure you think you've dodged a bullet from the Meyers machine, but you've made enough of a stink to screw up any professional career you might have had.

    Pro writers and editors lurk on this board--I'm one of them--and we have long memories. I've plenty to chat about with other editors concerning this kerfuffle.

    And one more time: No one hates YOU. It's your attitude no one can stand.

    You can still make the right choice and walk away from this, but I'm not holding my breath.

  23. #298
    What happened? ChristineR's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me--if her chosen path to become famous is to get sued for millions and then write a tell-all about it, who am I to interfere?

  24. #299
    I need to make a clarification here regarding my earlier post. Technically, as a wise sage has pointed out to me, ladysybilla hasn't committed plagiarism; so this post is my retraction of that term.

    However, the work in question is considered an Unauthorized derivative work. And my feelings are that an AW member who sees nothing wrong with using another writer's characters and backstory to continue a plot line without prior consent and attempting to market said work places other members here at risk.

    That being said, I'm not lifting the ban either.

  25. #300
    Grumpy writer and editor Absolute Sage Gillhoughly's Avatar
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    Feb 2006
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    Getting blitzed at Gillhoughly's Reef, Haleakaloha.
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    Thank you, Rolling Thunder.

    As professional writers and future professional writers, we HAVE to respect the works of others.

    All we ever have is our good name and the trust the publishers and readers have in us.

    Lose that and it's over. The fat lady done sung and left the building.

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