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veinglory

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Hey, if a reader likes one book you've written, chances are they'll want to read others. So why are they avoiding the EP books?

While that may seem logical a lot of romance ebook readers buy by publisher, not author. So it is entirely possibly for an author to sell hundreds of copies of a title with one epublisher and a handful with another.
 

luvreading

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While that may seem logical a lot of romance ebook readers buy by publisher, not author. So it is entirely possibly for an author to sell hundreds of copies of a title with one epublisher and a handful with another.

But would such an author not be more likely to go directly to the publisher's website so as not to miss a single titbit, and buy everything directly from them?

What is at issue here, is that when an author's page on Fictionwise, lists all of his titles, and they all sold well on Fictionwise, except (supposedly) the one from Eternal Press, which sold only one ebook, in a two year period, which isn't even a "handful," one kinda thinks "hello!" :) But hey, maybe I'm just from Missouri, and there's really nothing odd here at all.
 
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Marva

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A friend has a recently published ebook with EP. So far, no idea of sales since it's out so recently.

HOWEVER, she did think the editing was fine. The cover is very good. The book will be in print in a few weeks. It came up on Amazon in Kindle quickly. They gave her a substantial list of review sites to contact. They arranged a chat or two. She hasn't paid a penny.

So I have to wonder what everybody's problem is. My own small publisher hasn't done as well as EP has. Yeah, my publisher sucks, but EP sucks less. If the option is EP or self-pub, I can't really see the problems.

If it's the buy-out if you want to drop your contract, then try changing your cell phone provider and see what happens.

My friend (and it really isn't me) paid not a penny. While she hates the requirement to publicize her own works, it seems I've heard that even the big publishers's authors must do much the same.

This is just an opinion being second-hand from an author of EP and being first-hand with another small press. I don't think they're the ogres you all are making them out to be.
 

luvreading

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My own small publisher hasn't done as well as EP has.

EP sold one copy of an ebook in two years! This isn't just bad, it's suspiciously bad. If your publisher hasn't done as well as that, I guess it means they haven't sold anything at all -- zero, zilch.
 

Clementine B

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~~This is just an opinion being second-hand from an author of EP and being first-hand with another small press. I don't think they're the ogres you all are making them out to be.~~

I'm an EP author -- hides head in shame here (LOL) -- and I've found them quite the nastiest, most officious, disobliging, unprofessional outfit, I've ever had the misfortune to deal with. And yeah, I want out, and I'm getting out, but I'm not enriching these crooks with hundreds of dollars to do so.

When I signed up with EP, it wasn't the badly run, money grabbing, incompetent and obnoxious publisher it is today. That happened when Ally Robertson took over. She's bad news. And as far as I'm concerned, Kim Richardson is out of the same mould. Her hand's out just as quick as Ally's for "buy out fees." They're an author mill, borderline vanity, and that's how they make a fair chunk of their ill gotten gains.

They've virtually stolen authors' works for two years -- they never see a penny -- and now they want hundreds more in "buy out fees." Aw pulease, something is fricken rotten here and Denmark has nothing to do with it.
 
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veinglory

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What is at issue here, is that when an author's page on Fictionwise, lists all of his titles, and they all sold well on Fictionwise, except (supposedly) the one from Eternal Press, which sold only one ebook, in a two year period, which isn't even a "handful," one kinda thinks "hello!" :) .

All I can say is that it is not uncommon. It has certainly happened to me when a press was a poor performer, without them being in any way dishonest. Not all buyers even really look at the author name. They may be (example) gay vampires and from a press I know has good quality=buy. If the press is unknown or does not have that reputation=no sale. They never necessarily even looked at the author name. With ebooks just slapping a cover on it and putting it on Fictionwise does not necessarily mean anyone will buy it, even when they will buy the same author from other presses.
 

veinglory

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They gave her a substantial list of review sites to contact..

Generally the epublisher does this, this and many others things that produce sales and leave the author more time to write.

These days there is every reason to be "down" on epublishers and change your mind if you strike a good one (rather than give benefit of the doubt). There are hundreds of them and one that is selling in single digits is one to be avoided, whatever the reason for those poor results.
 
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Clementine B

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The $25.00 for cover art, really is a hoot. It gave me quite a chuckle. They couldn't get me to accept $25.00 to use it, it's so awful -- comically so. But then Ally says she writes and performs comedy. So I guess it figures. I think of it as the Eternal Clown Press. Anything goes. Now here's a challenge we can have a bit of fun with: Which cover is the worst?

http://www.eternalpress.ca/index.html
 
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M.R.J. Le Blanc

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I must admit I do hope this outfit goes belly up in the water. That way all those poor authors they're holding up for ransom, and trying to extort big bucks out of, will be free at last.

This will NOT happen in the way you're probably thinking, and the way most people might take this. A publisher going belly-up can spell more trouble for their authors unless a very clear reversion clause is in the contract. Without that, a publisher who goes belly-up takes their authors' stories with them.
 

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Extorting Big Bucks??

I must admit I do hope this outfit goes belly up in the water. That way all those poor authors they're holding up for ransom, and trying to extort big bucks out of, will be free at last.

In the big picture, how many "poor" authors are we referring to? Those who left, did so for personal reasons, and just like every story, there is more than one side. I assure if I share the url to this conversation with EP authors, you'll find there are many who are content to be there. And I for one with several publications available there take offense at your wishing EP fails. I've been there through two changes of leadership, and although it hasn't been an easy road, I've never felt I was taken advantage of, and I'm not a new kid on the block.

Ally's reasons for posting her personal information are known only by her, but in my opinion have absolutely nothing to do with EP now and the new ownership. Maybe sharing was a suggested way to get past a hurdle in her personal life. Who knows....who cares why? My contract did tell me that if I wanted out before my contract expired, I would be expected to pay for the cover art, the editing, etc. I checked two other contracts I have with other publishers, and they require the same. As far as EP charging for print set up...that's false, and the decision to forgo free copies was something agreed upon by the majority of authors signed at the time who wanted their books in print. EP set out to be purely download, but because authors wanted their work in Print, to accomplish that, Ally couldn't afford free copies. We all knew and understood, so it's not like we were lied to or taken advantage of. I think before people start bandying around false information, they need to get their facts straight and know what they are talking about.
 

Kensington

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In the big picture, how many "poor" authors are we referring to? Those who left, did so for personal reasons, and just like every story, there is more than one side.

I have a couple of questions here: Did the ones who left have to pay hundreds of dollars in order to do so, or do you know? And have you earned any royalties with EP. I mean over 5 bucks in the course of two years?

I don't see what other "side" there can be to this. The facts are pretty straightforward. After being with EP for two years, an author ended up selling only one ebook. That's right, 1. And when he tried to get out of his contract they hit him with a two hundred dollar bill. Sorry, perhaps I'm biased in favour of authors, and I make no apology for that, but I can't for the life of me see any other "side" to this, except a decidedly shady one.
 

KimRichards

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Hi, I'm Kim Richards Gilchrist, co-owner and CEO of Damnation Books LLC and Eternal Press. I've had several people request I come post and clear some things up about Eternal Press.

I’m pleased to come talk about both our companies, Damnation Books LLC and Eternal Press. We have just acquired Eternal Press on January 1st, 2010 and have a lot of great things in store. There have been many changes with the acquisition, including a new website and moving the company operations to California, USA.

Less than two weeks ago, we launched the new Eternal Press website at www.eternalpress.biz We are still entering data in the database and updating information but expect that to be completed in the next couple of weeks. You can find our current submission guidelines on the site.

Since acquiring Eternal Press we have doubled the distribution of both companies and then some with the addition of two more new venues. We have implemented a marketing plan with funds to back it up. Additionally the sharing of staff and resources has cut expenses for both companies. 2010 looks to be a bright year…and beyond.

Although the previous administration closed out the books on 12-31-2009 and paid all monies owed to authors, artists, staff and vendors, we are honoring all author contracts already signed with Eternal Press, which means their royalty percentage, details for early contract termination and author copies remain the same. New authors and new books from existing authors have an updated contract with higher royalties. Beginning in April we will be using Lightning Source for print of all new books.

Damnation Books has a focus on dark fiction: horror, thrillers, dark fantasy, anything with a darker theme to it including science fiction, GBLT and erotica. If you want more information on those submission guidelines, the place to go is www.damnationbooks.com

Eternal Press will remain Eternal Press, though will not be accepting the dark fiction submissions but passing those over to Damnation Books. This is allowing for a focus on romance, lighter paranormals, erotica, gay fiction, westerns, historicals, fantasy and more mainstream genres, plus a newly reopened young adult line. Right now we’re interested in longer works: longer novellas and novels.

With both companies, we expect authors to partner with us on spending time to promote their books. Thus the new submission guidelines ask for an author marketing plan. We want authors willing to work alongside us for the best promotional efforts possible. It’s been proven time and again how an author can make a difference when they are involved. We are seeing this in action with an EP title which as of today has sold over 400 kindle copies in less than six weeks from an active author. It’s title? Dead, Undead and Somewhere In Between.

Damnation Books has recently sponsored the Blood Bath Horror Film Festival and will next up be at Horrofind 2010 and WHC 2011. EP has ads and giveaways in place for Romantic Times Conference in April 2010 and working on some for the RWA conference this summer. We’re looking to make more use of advertising space and our social networks.

Our books for both companies are available in various formats: paperback, ebooks as pdf, .lit, .mobi, .epub, .pdb and in Kindle, as well as for phone applications. You can buy them from the websites, Amazon.com, B&N, Borders, Chapters/Indigo (we do have UK and CA distribution as well as in the US), Fictionwise, Kobo, Blio, Omnilit, 1 Romance ebooks, Coffeetime Romance, All Romance Ebooks, Bad Moon Books and Horror Mall ( for DB), Smashwords, and a whole lot of others working directly with our LSI distributorship.

I know that’s a lot of information at once. Hopefully it answered most of your questions. Feel free to email me if you have any others. I’m a very busy woman but always accessible.
 

Clementine B

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It’s been proven time and again how an author can make a difference when they are involved.

So the authors who received less than three dollars in two years, have only themselves to blame? I don't think so. I, for one, promoted my title all over the place, much more so than with any other novel, but all I came up with for my efforts was a couple of dollars after two years, and a demand for two hundred bucks if I wanted out of the sordid mess.

I intend to rally all the aggrieved EP authors for the purpose of a class action lawsuit. You wanted war, you'll get it.
 

pagerette

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A lawsuit might not get you what you want, but it will tie up EP in a court battle. They'll have to defend, which takes time and money. So it will have terrific nuisance value. It would also give the authors plenty of free publicity, if handled right -- with media releases, etc. This will add to increased sales, but here's the rub, if EP is still hanging onto your titles like a leech, they'll have their greedy fingers all over your cash, and you won't see a dime of it. So they'll end up laughing all the way to the bank. For those authors who are finally free of EP, the lawsuit would be a better idea. Then all the financial rewards would come to you from your other titles -- the ones NOT at EP.
 

KimRichards

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Lawsuits will not make nonexistant or non-earned royalties suddenly appear. You do what you have to do. We will be there if necessary because we are not hiding anything nor ripping anyone off. If anything, it will clear us of these false claims. The sooner the better.
 

Polenth

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Although the previous administration closed out the books on 12-31-2009 and paid all monies owed to authors, artists, staff and vendors, we are honoring all author contracts already signed with Eternal Press, which means their royalty percentage, details for early contract termination and author copies remain the same.

You've mentioned contract termination and false claims, but you haven't explicitly stated which claims were false or whether they had anything to do with contract termination.

So for the sake of clarity, a yes/no question: Did you charge, or try to charge, authors who wanted their rights back?
 

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I'd say damnation books taking over EP is probably a good thing. wouldn't you guys? Their titles are night and day in terms of cover-art. And as someone who actually reads e-books from time to time, I'll tell you, if the artwork sucks, I don't go near the book. I know, I know, don't judge a book by the cover, right?... nonsense. a cover that looks like a blind monkey did it, means the publisher didn't believe in it enough to think it worthy of the price of a good artist. Same goes for books in stores. My first impression is based entirely on the cover.

another thought - why would you think there'd be a ton of sales of your books from the publishers site? people don't buy books from publishers, they buy them from bookstores. most readers couldnt tell you the name of a single major publishers, so why would they seek out a no-name e-publisher? If your publishers only Point of Sale is on their site, you're not going to sell anything.

Finally, I find it hard to believe that any lawsuit you file will have any shot since a couple hundred dollar contract termination fee seems pretty reasonable. it's a contract, right? you're not supposed to be able to get out of it.

That said, I do appreciate these types of threads, it revitalizes my resolve to never, ever go with an e-publisher. if all you can expect is single digit sales, what's the point? hell, what's the point if you sell 500 copies a year?
 

Vampire's Lair

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I don't want to get too involved in this other than to say I'm an author with both EP and Damnation Books and I have nothing but good things to report. My first book came out through EP last year and after the first quarter I was paid on time and my sales were very strong. ... Communication is fantastic, questions are answered promptly and I think the way they work is quite collaborative. In terms of sales, I think EP has done a great job of getting our works into as many avenues of sales as possible. In terms of promotion, I know several reviewers who really enjoy the attention and help that EP gives in providing books and artwork for review.

As a writer I hate using cliches, but I think this is a storm in a teacup. I'm not quite sure why EP is being picked on like this when there are some other truly rotten publishers out there, and again, EP isn't one of them.
 
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kaitie

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I just wanted to toss in my two cents to say that I'm really glad for someone posting that email. It's a way to see objectively what has actually been said by the people in charge, and in a situation where you have some people saying it's great and some saying it's horrible, that's a valuable thing to have.

I wouldn't be submitting here anyway, but two things stood out for me that would have turned me off completely if I was an author. The first is that the email certainly looked like it was making excuses for why authors wouldn't be making any money even if they were selling copies. In fact, it was saying that the money would be better off in the publishers hands for advertising and promotion. This might be true, but can anyone give some examples of the promotion and advertising being done? It sounds to me like a way to convince authors not to be upset by their paltry royalties. Amazingly, many other book publishers manage to sell on Amazon without having to resort to paying authors nine cents for ten books sold. That's less than a cent per book. I didn't see anyone else pointing that out, but that's frakking ridiculous. And considering so many other presses can manage to pay on gross in spite of the same situations, it just smacks of excuses and a way to keep as much of the profits as possible. Which I suppose is necessary when none of your books are selling.

The second thing that stood out to me was the minimum requirement for authors to buy their own books. As someone else said, it reminds me far too much of PA for comfort. So they're saying if you want to buy your own book, don't go to Amazon and buy a copy, come to us, but you'll have to buy five to do it. Doing so would get you a whole fifty cents or so, but cost you fifty dollars. Somehow that doesn't seem to add up in the author's favor to me.

It sounds an awful lot like a company that can't sell books to readers, even if they can the author doesn't get a dime from it, and they're trying to persuade authors to buy from them directly, which I'm sure saves on costs and increases their profits, but having a minimum order amount just makes me cringe.

And being asked to pay to get out of a contract? Yeah, let's just say that this is the sort of thing we need to know to make good decisions. After seeing those two emails, there's no chance I'd ever submit anything to this press.
 

Maggie Dove

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My first novel, Angel of Windword, was published by Eternal Press this past October and I couldn't be happier! My cover is everything I envisioned and more. I have nothing but kind words for Ally and Kim. My book is selling and everyone that I have dwelt with has been extremely professional. Thanks to EP, I've gotten my name out there and, frankly, I'm grateful that they took a chance on me.
 

Momento Mori

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There are things about EP that mean I wouldn't touch them with a barge pole but really, some of the posts here leave a nasty taste in the mouth.

Ravenwing:
EP used to be in Australia, then it was taken over by Ally Robertson. (Canada) Now by all accounts she's a real lulu. Right up on the website she blethered on about her mental illness. That's right. She's manic depressive. She obviously had no sense of boundaries, or proprieties to do such a thing.

I understand that you are upset and frustrated, but this is really offensive.

If you've got actual evidence that Ally's condition had a direct effect on the running of Eternal Press then that's one thing, but labelling someone a "lulu" just for having a disorder says more about you and your attitudes than it does about her and her professionalism.

I don't know why she decided to put the fact on her biography page (to be honest, a lot of the biographies on the Eternal Press site have information that's not pertinent to the business), but I'd be more concerned by the fact that none of the staff appear to have substantial publishing experience beyond freelance work for unspecified contractors.

luvreading:
If she wanted to tell the authors, fine. But it's not appropriate right up there on the website for the world to see. That's not the correct venue for something like that. It's unprofessional. Of course, that's par for the course with Ally. I used to be an EP author, and I can tell ya I'm not proud of it. Ally should never have taken on something like that. It wasn't fair to the authors.

I don't follow your reasoning here. You seem to be saying that it's professional for her to tell her authors on a one-to-one basis, but it's not okay to put that on the company website. Given that her disorder seems to be of such concern to some posters here, I think she's well within her rights to post it onto the website because then people who aren't comfortable with it can make the decision not to submit to her if they think that that the disorder will affect the publication of their manuscript.

luvreading:
I agree. It is nobody else's business. Why Ally chose to post it all over the Internet defeats me.

Yeah well, why you and Ravenwing feel able to use it as a stick to beat the company with defeats me.

Ravenwing:
Amen to that. This whole EP business is beginning to stink as bad as last week's fish. Why are they trying to hold onto books they say are not selling, and then when the author wants out, attempting to extort hundreds of dollars from him?

If you don't want to pay the kill fee, then the answer is to wait until the contract term expires and then serve a termination notice in accordance with the contract's terms. If you want out early and there's no provision for that in the contract, then you're stuck with whatever conditions EP wants to impose for termination.

Essentially, it's a like it or lump it situation.

Kensington:
Sorry, no sale. Ally chose to make those public herself, right on the EP website. You can't change the rules halfway through the game.

The details may be publicly available, but what posters here decide to do with them is their responsibility and again, speaks more about them and their attitude than it does about Ally (whatever her faults and misdemeanours).

mizging:
EP has done far more to assist their authors with promotion than any of the other publishers I've been with.

Are you able to share some details on the promotion work that EP has done?

Ravenwing:
The question is, did they have to shell out almost two hundred smackers for the privilege? Or, is Eternal Press allowing some to go without strong arming them for moolah? By what I've seen of the contracts and so-called "termination" contracts, I doubt they'd stand up in court.

Really? Have you got a legal opinion that supports that? Because without being a Canadian or Australian qualified lawyer, the termination contract looks pretty solid to me.

Kensington:
You'll also notice that the author doesn't get any such "fee" if the publisher closes up shop before the end of the contract.

They do if they've negotiated an advance to their contract.

That's the danger of going with a non-advance paying operation like this - you're leaving yourself open to being out of pocket if it doesn't turn out the way you hoped (and sometimes even if it does turn out the way you hoped).

luvreading:
I must admit I do hope this outfit goes belly up in the water. That way all those poor authors they're holding up for ransom, and trying to extort big bucks out of, will be free at last.

No they won't. As others have said, the authors could be in bigger trouble than before - especially if the liquidator decides to exercise his/her rights to sell those contracts on to another publisher.

Marva:
HOWEVER, she did think the editing was fine. The cover is very good. The book will be in print in a few weeks. It came up on Amazon in Kindle quickly. They gave her a substantial list of review sites to contact. They arranged a chat or two. She hasn't paid a penny.

EP should be arranging for copies to go to review sites and not leaving it to the author.

Marva:
My friend (and it really isn't me) paid not a penny. While she hates the requirement to publicize her own works, it seems I've heard that even the big publishers's authors must do much the same.

There's a difference between getting involved in publication and being left to do the bulk of it. Even a mid-list author at a big publisher would expect some kind of support - promotional material, review copies etc.

Clementine B:
The $25.00 for cover art, really is a hoot. It gave me quite a chuckle. They couldn't get me to accept $25.00 to use it, it's so awful -- comically so. But then Ally says she writes and performs comedy. So I guess it figures. I think of it as the Eternal Clown Press. Anything goes. Now here's a challenge we can have a bit of fun with: Which cover is the worst?

Why are you attacking the illustrators when it's the company you have a problem with?

Kensington:
The facts are pretty straightforward. After being with EP for two years, an author ended up selling only one ebook. That's right, 1. And when he tried to get out of his contract they hit him with a two hundred dollar bill. Sorry, perhaps I'm biased in favour of authors, and I make no apology for that, but I can't for the life of me see any other "side" to this, except a decidedly shady one.

Actually, this is a fact for one unnamed author. It seems that EP books have been entered into the EPIC awards, with one making the shortlist, which is at least an attempt at steering the company in the right direction.

KimRichards:
Since acquiring Eternal Press we have doubled the distribution of both companies and then some with the addition of two more new venues. We have implemented a marketing plan with funds to back it up. Additionally the sharing of staff and resources has cut expenses for both companies. 2010 looks to be a bright year…and beyond.

Hi, Kim, and welcome to AW.

Are you able to share what kind of marketing will be done in accordance with this new marketing plan as lack of promotion seems to be a big complaint for EP authors.

KimRichards:
With both companies, we expect authors to partner with us on spending time to promote their books. Thus the new submission guidelines ask for an author marketing plan. We want authors willing to work alongside us for the best promotional efforts possible. It’s been proven time and again how an author can make a difference when they are involved. We are seeing this in action with an EP title which as of today has sold over 400 kindle copies in less than six weeks from an active author. It’s title? Dead, Undead and Somewhere In Between.

How much work are you expecting authors to do in promoting their book?

In the case of Dead, Undead and Somewhere In Between, how much promotional work did the author do and how much did EP do?

How many other EP titles have sold more than 400 copies?

Clementine B:
I intend to rally all the aggrieved EP authors for the purpose of a class action lawsuit. You wanted war, you'll get it.

Why do you need a class action law suit if you believe that EP are in breach of your contract?

pagerette:
A lawsuit might not get you what you want, but it will tie up EP in a court battle. They'll have to defend, which takes time and money. So it will have terrific nuisance value.

That's the very definition of a vexatious law suit and may well be thrown out before ever seeing the inside of a court room.

pagerette:
It would also give the authors plenty of free publicity, if handled right -- with media releases, etc. This will add to increased sales, but here's the rub, if EP is still hanging onto your titles like a leech, they'll have their greedy fingers all over your cash, and you won't see a dime of it. So they'll end up laughing all the way to the bank. For those authors who are finally free of EP, the lawsuit would be a better idea. Then all the financial rewards would come to you from your other titles -- the ones NOT at EP.

And I'm sure that all this cash will be really useful in paying the legal fees for the lawyers handling the case.

Seriously, a law suit is not the way to go here - all it does is make money for the lawyers, tie up your time and effort and ultimately not get you where you want to be.

Maggie Dove:
Thanks to EP, I've gotten my name out there and, frankly, I'm grateful that they took a chance on me.

If they didn't pay you an advance and you're doing a lot of the promotion on your book, then how did EP take a chance on you?

MM
 

mizging

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The $25.00 for cover art, really is a hoot. It gave me quite a chuckle. They couldn't get me to accept $25.00 to use it, it's so awful -- comically so. But then Ally says she writes and performs comedy. So I guess it figures. I think of it as the Eternal Clown Press. Anything goes. Now here's a challenge we can have a bit of fun with: Which cover is the worst?

http://www.eternalpress.ca/index.html

Honestly, we can't be looking at the same covers. The senior cover artist for MP has won many awards for her work, and I've been extremely happy with mine. Authors have input on their covers and final approval. If they don't like what they see, they can ask for a revisions.Perhaps your input and expectations were out of whack??? I've asked for changes in little details and gotten them without problems because the goal of the cover artist was always my satisfaction. Two of my covers have won recognition recently. Not sure what happened to turn you so bitter, but remember all this bitterness you're spewing has an affect on the rest of the authors at EP, and they've done nothing to you.
 

mizging

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I have a couple of questions here: Did the ones who left have to pay hundreds of dollars in order to do so, or do you know? And have you earned any royalties with EP. I mean over 5 bucks in the course of two years?

I don't see what other "side" there can be to this. The facts are pretty straightforward. After being with EP for two years, an author ended up selling only one ebook. That's right, 1. And when he tried to get out of his contract they hit him with a two hundred dollar bill. Sorry, perhaps I'm biased in favour of authors, and I make no apology for that, but I can't for the life of me see any other "side" to this, except a decidedly shady one.

Now you've hit a sore spot with me. Yes, I've made money, but not tons, and it's very well known in this game that promotion falls mainly to the author. EP has gone far beyond expectations by hiring someone to set up chats, blog dates and sending our books out for review. This was impressive to me since I'd never had that service before. As a past moderator and organizer of launch days, I'm well aware that many authors DON"T show up to promote and introduce their own work. Do you think perhaps he only sold one book because he didn't do a darn thing on his own???? And if you're going to "beat up" EP, why not use your own baggage instead of someone elses? Just asking.
 
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