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Thread: Wild Wolf Publishing

  1. #1
    practical experience, FTW HJW's Avatar
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    Wild Wolf Publishing

    Thought I'd ask about this one as a few people on other sites have mentioned submitting to this new UK publisher:

    http://wildwolfpublishing.com/publications.aspx

    The guy who runs it seems to be the same person as the author whose self published book WWP is re-launching as its first title (Rod Glenn the author appears to have the same address as WWP.)

    Rod Glenn
    WWP (ETA:this link doesn't work any more - it did link to a press release which gave WWP's postal address. But the release has now been taken down).

    Any thoughts? Would this be a red flag or not?
    Last edited by HJW; 05-25-2009 at 12:44 AM. Reason: Link no longer links!

  2. #2
    Tonight on Mythbusters BenPanced's Avatar
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    If it's a new publisher and the only book is by the owner/operator, play it safe and wait a year to see what happens (standard caveat around here).
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    Writer Beware Goddess Absolute Sage victoriastrauss's Avatar
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    What Ben Said.

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by BenPanced View Post
    If it's a new publisher and the only book is by the owner/operator, play it safe and wait a year to see what happens (standard caveat around here).
    Might be safer to wait two years.

    This type of publisher doesn't work. It's usually just a way for the Publisher to make his/her own book seem more respectable and/or started with the naive thought that they can help out other writers by essentially helping them self-publish their books.

    I'd advise just self-publishing yourself before going with this type of shop. At least that way you are in control of you work.
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  5. #5
    practical experience, FTW HJW's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice everyone. Pretty much what I thought.

  6. #6
    Fiction ... with TEETH. wildwolfpublishing's Avatar
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    A potential submitter to Wild Wolf brought this thread to my attention, so I thought I'd address any concerns.

    Wild Wolf Publishing was set up jointly with Rod Glenn to help publish and promote darker edgier fiction that is quite often overlooked by the larger publishing houses. Rod agreed to be our guinea pig for our first title, but we have since announced five more titles (see below). We are a traditional publisher in every sense - we edit, publish and promote our titles at no cost to the author and give 10% royalties on every book sold. We do not at this time offer advances, but that is because we are a small, fledgling press. Our small marketing department work their socks off to get books on shelves and to arrange reviews and book-signings. Anyone that has any concerns can contact any of the authors on our list.

    Wild Wolf have announced their 2009 list being released May-August 2009 -

    The King of America: Epic Edition by Rod Glenn (May)
    The Tyranny of the Blood by Jo Reed (June)
    Turn of the Sentry by A M Boyle (June)
    The Stately Pantheon by Kirsty Neary (July)
    Bully by A J Kirby (July)
    Otherwise Kill Me by John F McDonald (August)

    See the website for further details - www.wildwolfpublishing.com

    We are accepting submissions for the 2010 list. See the submsissions page for further information - http://wildwolfpublishing.com/submissions.aspx

    I hope this addresses your concerns, but please do not hesitate to contact me or any of our authors if you have any further questions.

    Ed Wolf
    Editor

  7. #7
    aka Sadistic Mistress Mi-chan M.R.J. Le Blanc's Avatar
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    Hi Ed, I think it would be nice if on your site you had a section that listed who works at your company and what their experience is in the industry.
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  8. #8
    Horror Man seun's Avatar
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    I got an extremely detailed rejection from them this morning. Way more feedback than I've ever had.

  9. #9
    A Gentleman of a refined age... thothguard51's Avatar
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    But was the feedback valuable or did it seem as an excuse as to why they were rejecting you...
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    Horror Man seun's Avatar
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    Definitely valuable. I didn't agree with every point they made but it's still a useful change to get anything other than not for us. Plus I now have a few issues I can hopefully work on and improve.

  11. #11
    Bemused Girl nkkingston's Avatar
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    I was sent The Killing Moon as a free review copy through LibraryThing's Early Reviewers program, and I was very disappointed in it. The cover art is pretty poor, the content and copy editing was lacking (it's either not done, or done badly, I couldn't say which) and the whole thing was riddled with plot holes and inconsistencies. It's a pity, because overall I liked the story, it was just a good couple of drafts away from being publishable.

    (oh, and I see my review has been flagged as abuse and another negative reivew as 'not a review', while positive reviews have been given multiple thumbs up. Not impressed. In retrospect my review looks harsh, but it's genuinely what I thought of the book, echoed in several other reviews, and considerably milder than what I wanted to say!)

    Maybe they've improved since they published the Killing Moon, but if so, it would be in their favour to revise and republish it and other books like it, because it doesn't reflect favourably on them.

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  12. #12
    Fiction ... with TEETH. wildwolfpublishing's Avatar
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    The Killing Moon was over-hauled after the first initial batch due to the editing issues metioned. The Early Reviewer programme received these first edition copies unfortunately. Later reviews we've seen coming in reflect the positive changes that were made to it and also probably explain why some reviews have been extremely surprised at negative comments regarding the editing.

    We have had a few problems with editing on two or three of our titles, but they have all been rectified now (Rhone was another that is currently going through another major edit).

    I hope this answers any concerns, but feel free to either email me direct or post on here and we will endeavour to answer any queries.

    Apologies to anyone who received a copy from this first inferior batch.

  13. #13
    Bemused Girl nkkingston's Avatar
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    That's great it's been overhauled! I was so excited by the original premise, the editing really was a let down. It might be worth putting a note on some of the major review sites to let people know?

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  14. #14
    Fiction ... with TEETH. wildwolfpublishing's Avatar
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    Thanks, nkkingston - we've started doing that. LibraryThing now has the note added aswell.

  15. #15
    @LeaveItToIan IDGS's Avatar
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    My novel CRIMSON LETTERS FROM KANDAHAR PROVINCE has recently been signed by Wild Wolf, and I'm quite excited to say the least.

    I got a copy of DEAD BEAT by Remy Porter, and it was a great read. Didn't seem to suffer from any of the editing issues outlined above, and the cover art was similarly well done.

    I'll keep you all posted - I have absolutely nothing except positive things to speak of my experience with Wild Wolf thus far. Very prompt, polite and professional, just as a publisher should be. Distribution seems to be really improving as well, which is rare to see in a small-ish house.

    Best of luck to all who submit, and be looking for CRIMSON LETTERS FROM KANDAHAR PROVINCE later this year!


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  16. #16
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin blackdogtales's Avatar
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    My novel 'By The Sword' has been taken by Wild Wolf for publication in early 2012. I've had an ongoing relationship with them for the best part of the year, arising from their zombie anthology 'Holiday of the Dead' including helping with a marketing event.

    Small but dynamic is how I would describe them, and definitely credible. This is the way publishing is likely to go because of new technologies (in print and on screen) and falling margins. I know of some other small press publishers (mainly Scottish lit-scene) who are doing very well for themselves and promoting new writing ... they aren't even picked up in the lazily-researched WA Yearbook. I like the close relationship I feel I have with Wild Wolf, and from my own day-job background in commercial consultancy, I trust them as a small business.

    As some of the earlier advice points out: check how long they've been going for. If they can sustain cashflow (even before profit) over 2 years in the most dire of markets where booksellers will take 40% to 60% of cover price, then they are credible (and there should be a reversion of rights clause anyway). Anyone can e-publish but they face the hurdles of editing, artwork, placement and marketing... looking at smaller publishers or collaborative writing groups is the most viable way to look to get published rather than gazing dreamily at the 'no unsolicited manuscripts' line in WA Yearbook.

  17. #17
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    Hi, blackdogtales, and welcome to AW.

    blackdogtales:
    I know of some other small press publishers (mainly Scottish lit-scene) who are doing very well for themselves and promoting new writing ... they aren't even picked up in the lazily-researched WA Yearbook.
    I'm presuming that by "WA Yearbook" you mean the Writers' & Artists' Yearbook?

    If that's the case, then there's nothing to stop a small publisher from writing to A&C Black and asking for inclusion in next year's book. It's no different to the Yellow Pages - you have to ask to be in there (although I don't know if there's a fee involved).

    So it's not a case of the Yearbook being "lazily researched" - they don't research, they publish what they are given. It's for this reason that while the Yearbook is a great starting point for research, you still have to do background research on anyone you see listed in there.

    blackdogtales:
    Anyone can e-publish but they face the hurdles of editing, artwork, placement and marketing... looking at smaller publishers or collaborative writing groups is the most viable way to look to get published rather than gazing dreamily at the 'no unsolicited manuscripts' line in WA Yearbook.
    The 2 questions that I would ask of any small publisher are:

    1. Are they paying an advance?

    2. What are the average sales per author?

    This is because if the publisher is not paying an advance then the author is dependent on sales to earn royalties, so if the sales figures are low (i.e less than a hundred), then an author may well be better off with self-publishing - regardless of the expense (which they will at least be able to control).

    There are a lot of very good small publishers out there - especially in the UK - but there are still a lot of things that need to be considered carefully before deciding whether to give one a shot. My general advice would always be to go down the agent query route first.

    MM

  18. #18
    Fiction ... with TEETH. wildwolfpublishing's Avatar
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    Thanks, Iain. It's good to have you aboard. I believe you're attending the Waterstone's event in Glasgow on the 29th with several of our other authors.

    Wild Wolf Publishing specialise in dark and edgy fiction - so some of our titles aren't to everyone's tastes! So some of our titles only sell in the hundreds. We have had several best seller successes now though. Unlikely Killer by Ricki Thomas has sold over 40,000 combined paperback and ebook units so far and Rod Glenn's Sinema: The Northumberland Massacre has sold over 20,000. They have both dominated the Amazon charts for the last six months or so.

    As a small press we don't pay advances, but that shouldn't put people off. Most small presses don't pay advances. We do have a dynamic sales and marketing team who work their behinds off sending out review copies, press releases, promo material and arranging advertising (online, press and specialist magazines like GZ, Scream etc) and events (we regularly hold events in Waterstone's branches up and down the country, as well as attending book festivals). We pay 10% royalty on paperbacks (on RRP price) and 50% royalty (net after seller fees) on ebooks. Our titles are available in Amazon, B&N, iBooks, Waterstone's, Forbidden Planet, Tesco, Play, WHSmith and many more.

  19. #19
    practical experience, FTW
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    Wild Wolf author

    Having written educational books and plays for many years and been published by top educational publishers (eg Macmillan, Oxford, CUP, Nelson, Hutchinson) in the UK, Australia, Germany and Scandinavia, I had my first novel, a thriller 11:59 published, not by any of these big names, but by the hard-edged fiction specialist Wild Wolf. I have to say that, small as they are, these guys have put more effort into marketing and publicising my book than any of my previous publishers. The cover art is splendid, in my view, and the editing is fine, mainly because I am an obsessively careful proof-reader of my own stuff. This is a small business that has been prepared to risk good money on several new authors - and there aren't many left who are.

  20. #20
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin blackdogtales's Avatar
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    Hello MM. Sorry for the delay in responding. Interesting about WA Yearbook ... I didn't know about the procedure for inclusion and was a little bit annoyed at the time after buying it and finding gaps! WW aren't the only smaller press not in there.... the literary scene in Scotland is very dynamic and there are very few presses mentioned in the Yearbook, including some first-time writer and literary opportunities. This is a shame.

    I have no advance from Wild Wolf... not surprising really, in a cash-flow business, and I think this arrangement plus the need for active author participation is the new reality. I spoke to one author recently who was in a tight contractual relationship with a mainstream publisher, and he mentioned that his advances were rarely paid back by royalties, which bound him quite closely to the publisher.


    I know some writers interested in self-publishing, and this is temptingly easy nowadays. As I mentioned, the difficulty is ensuring the product is of marketable quality, and the endorsement of a publisher (small press or large) is very reassuring.... they are putting money behind it, after all, in the expectation of making it back. We can self-publish, but this needs to involve a wider creative community with trusted feedback, and an established network of contacts for promotion. Very difficult to do completely from scratch.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdogtales View Post
    I have no advance from Wild Wolf... not surprising really, in a cash-flow business, and I think this arrangement plus the need for active author participation is the new reality. I spoke to one author recently who was in a tight contractual relationship with a mainstream publisher, and he mentioned that his advances were rarely paid back by royalties, which bound him quite closely to the publisher.
    I just wanted to clarify this point. Authors don't receive royalty checks because they haven't earned back their advance, which is money paid out against future earnings.

    Secondly, all authors are bound tightly to their publisher, not because of the advance/earn out, but because they signed a contract. There is nothing unusual or egregious about that arrangement.

  22. #22
    Tired and Disillusioned Momento Mori's Avatar
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    blackdogtales:
    Hello MM. Sorry for the delay in responding.
    No worries. Thank you for coming back.

    blackdogtales:
    I have no advance from Wild Wolf... not surprising really, in a cash-flow business, and I think this arrangement plus the need for active author participation is the new reality.
    I know there are some non-advance, royalty-paying presses out there with good reputations and I agree that author involvement in marketing is becoming more of a necessity, but the level of that involvement will usually depend on there being support from the publisher.

    For me, the willingness and ability of a publisher to pay an advance (even if it's only a hundred quid) represents a show of faith in the success of the book and a commitment to selling the same. Although I understand that cash-flow and capital are a problem with new publishers, especially given the costs involved in putting a book out to market, the advance does tend to concentrate those efforts and, if nothing else, the author has had something up front for their efforts.

    blackdogtales:
    I spoke to one author recently who was in a tight contractual relationship with a mainstream publisher, and he mentioned that his advances were rarely paid back by royalties, which bound him quite closely to the publisher.
    I can sympathise with that because I do know a couple of authors whose books never went into royalties, i.e. they didn't hit the sales figures that the publisher was expecting. However saying that they did have the benefit of that up-front payment rather than being dependent purely on royalties from low sales figures.

    blackdogtales:
    As I mentioned, the difficulty is ensuring the product is of marketable quality, and the endorsement of a publisher (small press or large) is very reassuring.... they are putting money behind it, after all, in the expectation of making it back.
    Agreed, but not all small publishers are equal and this is where research comes in as to who's behind the company, what their experience is, how they plan to sell and market, what the average sales figures are per title etc.

    I'm not down on small publishers by any means, but I worry that some people place emphasis on the fact that their book has been accepted by a third party when that third party may not be able to do anything more than the author can do themselves.

    MM

  23. #23
    Fiction ... with TEETH. wildwolfpublishing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momento Mori View Post
    For me, the willingness and ability of a publisher to pay an advance (even if it's only a hundred quid) represents a show of faith in the success of the book and a commitment to selling the same. Although I understand that cash-flow and capital are a problem with new publishers, especially given the costs involved in putting a book out to market, the advance does tend to concentrate those efforts and, if nothing else, the author has had something up front for their efforts.

    I'm not down on small publishers by any means, but I worry that some people place emphasis on the fact that their book has been accepted by a third party when that third party may not be able to do anything more than the author can do themselves.

    MM
    When a publisher accepts a book for publication that in itself is a huge act of faith. A publisher invests a significant amount of time and money into bringing a book to market. A publisher like ourselves has to get a return on that investment, so we will push for the maximum amount of sales possible from that title, advance or no advance.

    It is highly unlikely that an individual would be able to market a book better than a reputable publisher, unless they had a significant amount of experience in the industry and in marketing and PR.

  24. #24
    I'm already a real writer. Katrina S. Forest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildwolfpublishing View Post
    When a publisher accepts a book for publication that in itself is a huge act of faith. A publisher invests a significant amount of time and money into bringing a book to market. A publisher like ourselves has to get a return on that investment, so we will push for the maximum amount of sales possible from that title, advance or no advance.

    It is highly unlikely that an individual would be able to market a book better than a reputable publisher, unless they had a significant amount of experience in the industry and in marketing and PR.
    If reputable simply means that the publisher in question took on the book because they genuinely thought it would sell and is interested in selling the book to as many people as possible, I disagree.

    Many, many small presses start with every bit of good intention, but without any knowledge on how to sell books outside of the usual social networking that the author would use anyway.

    Now, all that said, I have purchased one of Wild Wolf Publishing's books before (though I confess, I haven't gotten to read it yet), when the author hand sold it to me. I wasn't thrilled with the cover, but I wonder if this was an early book, because many of the covers I see on the website now look significantly better.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildwolfpublishing View Post
    A publisher like ourselves has to get a return on that investment, so we will push for the maximum amount of sales possible from that title, advance or no advance.
    The flip side to that argument is how much promotion can a publisher afford to put into a book if they can't afford to pay an advance?

    It is highly unlikely that an individual would be able to market a book better than a reputable publisher, unless they had a significant amount of experience in the industry and in marketing and PR.
    Provided that reputable publisher has the means and ability to get their books on store shelves and promote their authors.

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