Pirates nab All-American Crewed Ship

Noah Body said:

Oddly enough, this is just the kind of mission SFOD-D (Delta Force to you civilians) was created for. Let's see, AMCIT as a hostage in international waters, no sponsoring nation or state to seek overflight/landing rights from, US platforms in the area...golly, what are they waiting for.

Oh right, approval from the NCA. They're probably balking at the cost, seeing as how the government is so fiscally responsible now.

Click to expand...

The pirates are demanding a ransom for the captain's release. At least there's something to talk about. But I would think that the US would close in on these guys and let "Delta Force" handle it. Thanks for that. I learn something every day.

The problem with this incident is one of precedence.

If we look at this as an isolated incident, sure, we go in kill the bad guys and rescue the captain.

But lets imagine that you are a pirate and are following this situation on T.V..

What happens when you go on to capture a ship full of cargo and hostages and then the US (or whatever agency) comes to negotiate. You will have it in the back of your mind that you are all going to die. What will you then do with those hostages?

I'm not advocating that we let the pirates go. I just saying this isn't so cut and dry as many are making it.

My thoughts are that this will take another day or so of negotiations in which we guarantee the pirates will live and serve some jail time.

Takes a few days for a hopeless situation to wear on you. After which, they should see that they only have one way out of this mess alive.

As for the captain, that is one brave SOB. There is so much shit in the ocean that can kill you... After seeing Jaws, I vowed to never swim in the ocean again.

Mel...

I think the only real solution is to sacrifice the captain. It's not palatable, but until the pirates know that holding hostages won't do them any good, we're going to be a permanent disadvantage. That would be the smart, albeit cruel, thing to do.

Dgi, the key here is that you have to show the pirates that this business has a price to it, and that the price is so high, that it'd be best to leave the business. I'm thinking in terms of flying in B-52's and carpet bombing known pirate havens. Use the same threat that freed that helicopter pilot in Mogadishu(we threatened to level the city if we didn't get him back). I say we make the same offer to the pirates and carry through on the promise if they keep this bullshit up. It will only take the leveling of maybe one or two cities before the message would be heard loud and clear.

Bird of Prey said:

Apparently the captain tried to escape last night. The man is really courageous.

I guess what I don't understand, since they're just floating out there, is why the US can't drop in a few sharp shooters and pick them off all at once?? I know it's dangerous, but I think it's viable if they can get close enough, and surely they can.

Click to expand...

No, because if they try and fail, people exactly like you then start complaining about how the pirates have never killed anybody, and why did the US have to try strong-arm thug tactics, and kill that poor man in the process.

dgiharris said:

The problem with this incident is one of precedence.

If we look at this as an isolated incident, sure, we go in kill the bad guys and rescue the captain.

But lets imagine that you are a pirate and are following this situation on T.V..

What happens when you go on to capture a ship full of cargo and hostages and then the US (or whatever agency) comes to negotiate. You will have it in the back of your mind that you are all going to die. What will you then do with those hostages?

Click to expand...

Then you're not a very smart pirate. After watching the US kill a bunch of pirates, maybe you think twice about boarding an American-held ship, instead of waiting until the negotiation session to decide if you're in trouble or not?

I mean, listen. Pirating is viable for these men because it's *easy money.*

Make it not easy. watch how quickly they go try something else.

I think the official policy of every country should read something like this:

"Promises made under duress are null and void. Regardless of what deal you work out, once your hostages are safe, you're dead. We'll pursue you to the ends of the earth if necessary. If you want to live on the face of this planet, do not kidnap or use another person as hostage."

"Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute."

That we learned in elementary school.

When piracy is outlawed, only outlaws will be pirates.
Huh? Wait, what??

I have a soft spot for those pirates. I mean, can you blame them?

Imagine living in the most squalid place on earth, and before your eyes the world's commerce steams by. To them, it must look like an unending stream of mirages, only it's real, and all they need is a tiny boat, a few guns and some serious balls to take on the rest of the world to enrich themselves beyond their wildest dreams.

Now imagine further that this great wealth is, for the most part, unprotected and ripe for plunder. The trick is, they need to board those vessels, but once that challenge is met, bags of money will fall out of the sky or, better yet, is ferried directly to them without so much as a shot being fired.

You can't ask for better cooperation. It's like storming into a bank, threatening to shoot the place up then walking away unopposed with piles of cash to finance your next big caper.

Yeah, those pirates are on to something all right, which is the knowledge that too many nations, and the companies operating therein, prefer flight over fight. So they use this to their strengths which, thus far, has worked remarkably well and has made the rest of the world seem like chumps.

donroc said:

"Millions for defense, not one cent for tribute."

That we learned in elementary school.

Click to expand...

Amen!

Imagine living in the most squalid place on earth, and before your eyes the world's commerce steams by.

Click to expand...

They need to find a better way to jump on the 'commerce bandwagon'.

I feel for them, too. I don't have an answer for their squalor.

I was there in 1978 or 1979, I forget the year, but we had four stowaways we found before we crossed the bar while the pilot was still on board, so we turned back into the harbor to drop them off to the authorities. The authorities came aboard after we anchored, lined them up against the rail, and shot all four of them right in front of me.

The place is a hell-hole.

The longer the United States and other governments ignored the problem and allowed the shipping companies to pay the pirates the tribute they demanded, they emboldened them. When will we learn that appeasement doesn't work, won't work and never works?

Do I blame the Somali pirates? For being thugs, I do, but since nobody took them seriously before, why all the flexing and saber-rattling now? Oh, that's right. NOW they finally have our attention.

I totally disagree with the suggestion the captain should be sacrificed to make this all go away. I'm sure the Navy and FBI have discussed possible scenarios where a rescue attempt would be mounted. Let's give them a chance to resolve this and save Captain Phillips.

There will time enough when this is over to decide how to deal with acts of piracy. Here's one suggestion:

We need to stop thinking about Somali pirates as simple fishermen with AK-47s. The pirate organizations operating from Eyal and other places are becoming more sophisticated in their attacks. They are targeting vessels not just off the coast or in the Gulf of Aden but hundreds of miles into the Indian Ocean. With reports that 20 percent of all ransom money received is reinvested by the pirate groups into better boats, G.P.S. systems, satellite phones and payments to informants working in the Middle East, Somali pirates are able to both evade the multinational naval task forces operating in the area and find new targets.

At present, pirates have much to gain and little to lose by continuing to strike. Navies are patrolling ship lanes rather than trying to block pirates from leaving their ports. Some countries only have a mandate to protect ships that fly their national flags. Others have limited rules of engagement. There are more commercial ships spread out over a large area than the warships currently on station can protect. Moreover, because Somali pirates generally do not harm crews, ships or cargoes, it is still cheaper for companies to pay ransom than risk the destruction of the vessel.

But there has to be a change in the incentive structure for pirates. Right now, companies and some governments are still willing to pay ransom. Might they instead hire clans to combat piracy, along the “sons of Iraq” model? Maybe foreign naval forces in the area should work to guarantee that Somali fishermen are free to ply their trade without fear of either pirate attack or the arrival of foreign fishing fleets to illegally fish Somali waters.

After all, the genesis of the pirate gangs were the militiamen taken on board Somali fishing vessels to attack the famed “zombie fleets” from other countries. Perhaps it’s time for the international community to deal directly with the self-proclaimed governments in Somaliland and Puntland, rather than hoping against hope that a central government in Somalia will be reconstructed.

http://roomfordebate.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04/09/capture-pirates-on-land-and-sea/

The longer the United States and other governments ignored the problem and allowed the shipping companies to pay the pirates the tribute they demanded, they emboldened them. When will we learn that appeasement doesn't work, won't work and never works?

Click to expand...

Since when does the US government dictate to companies if they can or cannot pay to ransom their own property?

Oh, yeah, I forgot, after Obama nationalized the entire friggin' country. Right. Got it now.

Silver King said:

Now imagine further that this great wealth is, for the most part, unprotected and ripe for plunder. The trick is, they need to board those vessels, but once that challenge is met, bags of money will fall out of the sky or, better yet, is ferried directly to them without so much as a shot being fired.

Click to expand...

You know, I keep being reminded of Papua New Guinea, and the cargo cults, when I read these stories. I think you're on to something.

France has its own ideas


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7994201.stm


Mr Morin said his country had shown determination to oppose piracy.

"France has shown its determination not to give in to blackmail, [to] prosecute the criminal acts and liberate the hostages every time that a ship under a French flag is captured," he said.

Joe270 said:

Since when does the US government dictate to companies if they can or cannot pay to ransom their own property?

Oh, yeah, I forgot, after Obama nationalized the entire friggin' country. Right. Got it now.

Click to expand...

So you approve of paying thieves and kidnappers to return the people and property, they steal, huh? Good plan there.

I can tell you didn't believe Winston Churchill when he said, “An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.”

But as long as you can turn anything into a reason to take a cheap shot at the president, that makes it all worthwhile.

Somali pirates in German ship fail to find comrades
Sat Apr 11, 2009 2:48am EDT

By Abdi Guled

MOGADISHU, April 11 (Reuters) - Pirates on a German ship with 24 foreign hostages said on Saturday they had returned to the Somali coast after failing to locate the scene of a standoff involving an American captive on a drifting lifeboat.

The pirates had hoped to use the hijacked 20,000-tonne container vessel, Hansa Stavanger, as a "shield" to reach fellow pirates holding American ship captain Richard Phillips far out in the Indian Ocean. U.S. naval ships are close to the lifeboat.

"We have come back to Haradheere coast. We could not locate the lifeboat," one pirate on the German ship, who identified himself as Suleiman, told Reuters. "We almost got lost because we could not find the bearing of the lifeboat."

The German ship was seized off south Somalia between Kenya and the Seychelles and has a crew of 24.

Somali elders and relatives of pirates holding Phillips are planning a mediation mission to secure his release, a regional maritime group said.

"They want to resolve this in the traditional Somali way of negotiations," Andrew Mwangura told Reuters. "They are just looking to arrange safe passage for the pirates, no ransom."

Separately, French special forces stormed a yacht held by pirates elsewhere in the lawless stretch of the Indian Ocean in an assault that killed one hostage, but freed four.

Two pirates were killed and three captured.

More U.S. warships have been sent towards the powerless lifeboat drifting in international waters off Somalia, where pirates have been holding Phillips since trying to hijack his ship, the 17,000-tonne, Danish-owned Maersk Alabama, on Wednesday.

The American captain apparently volunteered to get in the lifeboat with the pirates in exchange for the safety of his crew, who regained control of the Maersk Alabama, which is carrying food relief to Kenya. Later Phillips tried to escape by jumping overboard, but was quickly recaptured.

Close by, the destroyer USS Bainbridge launched drones that monitored the incident and kept radio contact with the pirates. The Bainbridge wants a peaceful outcome to the standoff with the assistance of FBI experts, a U.S. official said. . . .

http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSN10335102._CH_.2400

Talk about audacity. . . . I have no sympathy for these guys. I don't consider them pirates in the conventional sense; I consider them kidnappers.

Thank God and the US Navy:

US captain released from pirates

The captain of a US container ship taken hostage by Somali pirates has been released, the US Navy has said.

According to initial reports, three pirates were killed in the operation to free Captain Richard Phillips. Another is in custody.

Capt Phillips is said to be unhurt and on the USS Bainbridge, a warship sent to track the pirates holding him.

He was taken hostage last Wednesday after pirates briefly hijacked his ship, the Maersk Alabama.

Media reports say Capt Phillips' family was informed of his release several hours ago.

Somali elders had been trying to resolve the standoff but most recent reports suggested the talks had stalled. . . . http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7996087.stm

Reports say he jumped overboard for a second time, and the pirates were shot and killed before they could take action to get him back.

US forces apparently took advantage of the fact one of the pirates was negotiating on the USS Bainbridge when the incident happened.

Click to expand...

There ya go.

American captain Richard Phillips taken hostage freed from Somali piratesBY Helen Kennedy
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Updated Sunday, April 12th 2009, 1:21 PM

US commandos freed hero Capt. Richard Phillips today and killed most of the pirates holding him hostage in a dramatic end to the four-day high seas standoff that riveted the world.

CNN reported Phillips helped divert the pirates by jumping into the ocean, giving waiting Navy Seals an opening to wipe out the ragtag pirates who had been holding the world's most powerful Navy at bay on the Indian Ocean.

Three of the four Somali pirates were killed, and the fourth was taken into custody, according to initial reports.

The resourceful Phillips was said to be uninjured and safely aboard the destroyer USS Bainbridge.

"We are all absolutely thrilled to learn that Richard is safe and will be re-united with his family," said John Reinhart, head of the Maersk Line shipping company.

"We join Richard's family, his crew and his colleagues ashore in celebrating this wonderful news. We look forward to welcoming him home in the coming days."

Phillips, 53, captain of the 17,000-ton relief cargo vessel Maersk Alabama, offered himself as a hostage to save his 19-man crew when the heavily armed pirates . . . . http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...hillips_taken_hostage_freed_from_pirates.html

Sorry, Rob, just to post a few more details. I'm so glad he made it. And bravo to our US Seals!!

After the first time Capt. Phillips jumped in, the sailors aboard the destroyer realized the chain of command took too long.

So somehow they abbreviated that with standing orders.

I figure the SEALs turned that lifeboat into swiss cheese with M-60 rounds in seconds.

Regardless of the details, which are still a little sketchy, they done done it right and are owed congratulations. Chances are they'll need to do something similar at least a few more times.

caw

Sully and now Phillips. Navy too. Great role models for the young'ns.

ST6 FTW!