Agents who don't accept unsolicited queries

In situations like that, the best advice is that should you decide to approach that agent anyway, make sure you do it with the best query letter possible. Otherwise, I think it means that the agent is trying to concentrate on shopping around manuscripts and that maybe the agent has a full load of clients. You'd have to be better than some of his current clients to even have a chance.

What I've done in situations like this is send a polite e-mail message to the agent, asking if he or she is currently accepting unsolicited queries in the genre that my book is written in. I've always gotten a polite response -- in one case, the agent was, in fact, accepting unsolicited queries; the website in question was wrong.

Good luck!

Sometimes, it gets reported that they're not accepting any unsolicited queries because they're either trying to slow down the number of submissions or trying to be polite to a writer they're not at all interested in getting anything from.

DaveKuzminski said:

Sometimes, it gets reported that they're not accepting any unsolicited queries because they're either trying to slow down the number of submissions or trying to be polite to a writer they're not at all interested in getting anything from.

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I am so naive -- I had no idea. Thanks, Dave!

I'm curious

I've noticed, not only here but elsewhere, that there are mountains of advice given by folks whose only claim to fame is "Writer." Question: how can anyone in whose background there is not evidence of ever having been a literary agent or publisher know so bloody much about being a literary agent or publisher? It seems that the proper place to find information about being a literary agent would be to ask a literary agent. The same goes for being a publisher--ask a publisher. The folks answering inportant questions here either run a site on scams (the difinition of scam by the way according to my dictionary is not the same as the one these folk use) or are just writers. Knowing something about a profession before opening one's mouth should be an important watchword. Would you take advice, for instance, on your brain tumor operation from the operator of a web site or a brain surgeon? Hummm! Think people!!

...And many of these people whom you call "just writers" have been through the process and know the ins and outs.

Go ahead, bodacious, ask an agent or publisher. Wait for a response, in some cases that could be weeks, and compare it to the advice you've seen here. If it's vastly different, well, then pass it on.

That's what it's all about.

Just a writer...but

Hi bodacious, I'll try to answer your question.

First off, a number of the participants here are writers who have been writing and submitting for years. Some have engaged the services of one or more agents in the past. A few of the regulars are actually agents and editors, though some do not reveal their identities because they don't want to be swamped by the thousands of visitors this forum receives.

In some other cases, there are a few of us who have worked in the area of doing watchdog service for a number of years. Some of us fell into it by accident or were pushed into it. Regardless, we try to share the wealth of information we have on hand.

Speaking for myself, though I know that some of the other watchdog services are probably more respected, I can only state that Preditors & Editors (tm) has been recommended at conventions by literary agents and editors for its services. If that doesn't count in your estimate, then I really don't know who you're going to trust, but Absolute Write, Writer Beware, P&E, and several others give out all this information for free. We don't get anything other than the satisfaction of seeing the monsters driven out of our village and yours.

Hummm!!

Dear Dave,

Seeing I have sat on panels at writers conferences and had the question come up, "What about Preditors and Editors and their postings on agents and publishers who are are supposedly scammers?" The editors answered, "We don't pay any attention to P & E. Our only concern is that the writing is publishable." The agents usually reply with, What does, "Not recommended, charges fees" actually mean?

My take on all of this is, my friend, you are going to have to be a little more specific if your information is going to be considered valid to these folks. Writers are being screwed on one side by so-called Watch Dog Groups, in the middle by so called scammers, and right up the giggy by the whole publishing industry. The whole world is feeding off the gullibility of writerdom and you all are not helping.

How do you define a scam? Would you call it a scam if writers are charged $20 for 10 minutes for a sit down with an agent or an editor? Talk about reading fees, is it okay for conferences to pay agents money to review manuscripts as long as they are associated with a conference? Do you know what a blue pencil session is about? Do you know that AAR agents participate in them in direct violation of their own code of ethics? I don't think so. You are on the outside and oh so yesterday. Grow up, listen and learn. Scams are way more sophisticated than you or your parent organization who are still thinking that agents are the only ones who scam.

Bodacious, who are you? I'm not saying, "Who are you to question Dave?!" I just want to know who you are. A writer? Editor? Agent? Cover artist? All of the above? None of the above?

Also, your post seems to be rather hostile towards Dave and other watchdog groups, implying you are not objective on this matter. This makes me believe you have some sort of bias. Why the hostility? Is it unintentional? If you have real reasons to distrust him or his organization, I for one would appreciate specific examples for my own education. For example, you say Dave and his "parent organizations" think agents are the only ones who scam, and yet, part of P&E is dedicated to publishers. Was this a typo, mistake, or gaff on your part?

Finally, what's your advice for authors trying to become published? If they cannot trust sites like P&E, and they should not trust the word of other authors, and agents and editors are notoriously busy and hard to contact for simple questions about the process, what should they do? Do you have any specific sites that you prefer? Any contacts or emails you could list? The publishing world can be confusing and rough waters to navigate. People need a reliable map. Do you have one?

Is it just me or does bodacious sound an awful lot like Carl?

Who am I?

Dear Pepperlandgirl,

>>I just want to know who you are. A writer? Editor? Agent? Cover artist? All of the above? None of the above?<<

I'm actually afraid to reveal my identy because I don't want to end up on P & E. As the old saying goes, power corrupts. . . and so on. Let's just say that I have been in publishing a long time and am a tired of seeing those who want to be writers led down a primrose path by those who choose to use them to feather their own nests.

Yes, I am a little hostile. I am because many writers are so niave and so easily led by those who purport to know so much about the publishing industry and know so little. First of all, it's not some secret organization that few can enter. It's simply a business. Businesses are in business to make money, not to titilate the fancies of certain groups. How do you get published? When you stop looking at what you write as art and start looking at it as a product. Put very crudely, writers are merely machines cranking out a product--books, magazines, pamphlets, whatever--they are all products placed on on bookstore shelves in easy reach for eager hands that will take them home and either gain knowledge from consuming them or take them to their hearts and love them forever. Writer's consumers are readers (the most forgotten of all people) not agents, editors or publishers. These people merely transport a writer's work along the assembly line and help make it into a usable product. If the end consumer of this product line (again the reader) likes what she reads, she will want more. If the product is shoddy and filled with holes, she will tell others that you produce a rotten product. It's that simple. General Motors found out in the 1970s that they were producing junk and almost lost their company to the innovative Japanese. Why? The Japanese built a newer, better product and gave consumers what they wanted--gas mileage plus resale. If you want to be a successful author, you must give your consumer, your READER, the product he/she wants--a great read that is different and satisfying. Yes, this sounds too simple, but Forrest Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates!" What could be more simple than that?

Posted for the 3rd time, sorry if it is a duplicate!

I had a whole response written, but it didn't post because I wasn't logged in apparently, so here I will try to write it again.

So, Christine, your point is that because the folks here respond faster than those elitists editors and agents, you trust their qualifications more? Maybe those editors and agents have better things to do than respond to writers on discussion boards. Maybe they are worrying about what readers want (although I doubt it).

And Dave, you PR guy, you! You plug not only Writer Beware and P&E, but also Absolute Write, whose home page has about a zillion opportunities for writers to spend money on resources that may or may not get them published (although it is implicitly implied and endorsed when folks who run watchdog groups join the forum). You know, some scammers con people out of money. Others con for power. It's still a con.

Bodacious--learn to spell, for Pete's sake, or no one will take you seriously.

McAndal--the response to your question is: First, check the date of the site. If it is recent, then the agent isn't looking for queries. If it is 6-12 months old, you can inquire. Since market books are outdated before they are published, the only venue some agents/publishers have to get updated info out there is a website. Always check the website for the most updated submission information if it is posted (sometimes the website is out of date, so checking a variety of sources is vital).

And finally, Pepperlandgirl (my God, you folks post fast in here!): You want the truth about publishing in MY estimation? Writing for publication is a profession. Those who are best suited to it are not those who decided one day to write, but those who have not only studied the art of bringing a story to life for readers, but practiced it for many years. The majority of writers on these boards put off writing until it fit into their lifestyles...they became something else, but always wanted to write and came back to it later in life. But the best writers are the ones who fell in love with the writing mistress and couldn't give her up, no matter what. They took on internships with major publishers or worked on some lower level at some corporation to move up in the biz; they didn't go make a comfortable life and fit writing into it later. This is why new writers find it so hard to get information on getting published--they are on the outside, and why shouldn't they be? Writing for publication was never intended to be something you sat at home and did. You have to experience it from the inside out like any profession. Would you walk into a school system's superintendent's office and say, "I don't have any experience or a degree in classroom teaching, but I want to teach kids!"? No, you would go back and get the necessary degree and/or experience and then go from there. Unfortunately, most writers today don't want to do that. They want to send their work in and have some editor/agent be overwhelmed by it, then sell it to an adoring fan base. Being a career writer is really hard, and all I see lately is people who want a checklist they can complete that will lead to publication with as little effort as possible. Are you a children's writer? A novelist? A nonfiction writer? A journalist? An advertising copy writer? Do you create crossword puzzles? These are all different types of writing, and doing one does not qualify you for doing any of the others. I wish I had a road map for all the nice people who want to get their work out there, but the only thing I can say is that getting published takes a lot of work--sometimes a degree, sometimes experience, sometimes both--it depends on the type of writing for publication you want to do. Good luck--Coyote

Wait a minute!

Oh my God, I think Bodacious is Carl!

Wait, who is Carl?

With Writer Love,
Coyote

First of all, it's not some secret organization that few can enter. It's simply a business. Businesses are in business to make money, not to titilate the fancies of certain groups. How do you get published? When you stop looking at what you write as art and start looking at it as a product. Put very crudely, writers are merely machines cranking out a product--books, magazines, pamphlets, whatever--they are all products placed on on bookstore shelves in easy reach for eager hands that will take them home and either gain knowledge from consuming them or take them to their hearts and love them forever

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You won’t get an argument from me! I don’t have any problem viewing writing as a profession and a business. I’m on board. I’m not sure what this has to do with websites like P&E and the people who take time out of their lives to offer advice on how to contact agents and editors.

If the end consumer of this product line (again the reader) likes what she reads, she will want more. If the product is shoddy and filled with holes, she will tell others that you produce a rotten product. It's that simple.

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It is indeed. Am I sensing a bit of frustration with would-be authors who are more obsessed with being perfect for an agent and less obsessed with writing decent books consumers will want to buy? I share the frustration to some degree. But again, why can’t Dave, Victoria, and even Jenna warn people from scam artists? Is it the way they are “watching”?

apanese built a newer, better product and gave consumers what they wanted--gas mileage plus resale. If you want to be a successful author, you must give your consumer, your READER, the product he/she wants--a great read that is different and satisfying. Yes, this sounds too simple, but Forrest Gump said, "Life is like a box of chocolates!" What could be more simple than that?

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I’m working on it, but what if I do exactly what you said to do and I don’t research agents and publishers and I send it to PublishAmerica (for example). It won’t matter how great my book is, it won’t sell.

Everything you said to me was true, but it doesn’t quite address what I was going after initially. This might get to the heart of matters though:

Let's just say that I have been in publishing a long time and am a tired of seeing those who want to be writers led down a primrose path by those who choose to use them to feather their own nests.

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I still don’t understand Dave’s sin, if indeed, he has sinned.

So, Christine, your point is that because the folks here respond faster than those elitists editors and agents, you trust their qualifications more? Maybe those editors and agents have better things to do than respond to writers on discussion boards. Maybe they are worrying about what readers want (although I doubt it).

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Doesn’t this support her point? The big agents and editors do not have time, or perhaps the inclination, to answer questions; therefore, newbie writers turn to the agents, editors, and authors who hang out at writing communities and do have said time and inclination. It seems logical to me, but then, I could be wrong.

And Dave, you PR guy, you! You plug not only Writer Beware and P&E, but also Absolute Write, whose home page has about a zillion opportunities for writers to spend money on resources that may or may not get them published (although it is implicitly implied and endorsed when folks who run watchdog groups join the forum). You know, some scammers con people out of money. Others con for power. It's still a con.

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Is this the heart of the issue? Bodacious wasn’t very clear. Dave (etc) have decided to help new writers, not out of the kindness of their hearts, but because by doing so they gain a degree of power? I suppose if he was passing out bad or otherwise meaningless advice and stood to gain something for it, you would have a very clear and strong case; however, I have not seen him gain any sort of wealth or accolades for what he does. I suppose in this sense, as you mention above, Jenna is guilty of the same crime.

Though honestly, if I were going to scam people, I would go for the money. Ultimately Internet Power is as real as the Internet Police and Internet Jail.

Coyote, as or your response to me, I don’t see anything to disagree with. Both you and bodacious seem to be more or less correct about what one needs to do to become a writer. What still remains unclear to me is the beef with the watchdog groups. Bodacious’ hostility especially stood out to me, and it concerned me because he/she sounds like a person with a grudge. People who come to the Bewares and Backgrounds forum who seem to be holding a grudge are often not taken seriously. I was hoping that if bodacious responded to me, he/she might sound more level-headed and objective.

Coyote (or should I say bodacious?), what is the purpose of the website you have under development for writers if it is not to alert writers to scams, trends, and developments in the publishing industry? Seems to me as if you might be trying to discredit P&E, Writer's Beware, and possibly even our own Water Cooler to promote your site. If your site provides accurate information to writers, we will be the first to recommend it, but please do not come here criticizing proven sites and individuals who have long been writers' advocates in an effort to publicize your own agenda. We are all in this together and need all the accurate information we can find, but there is no need to put down one writer or writers' site in order to promote another.

Bodacious

I can buy your admission of "hostile" attitude.

Now, please share with us, the why. You won't supply a name for fear of reprisal. Okay, I can support that as a plausible excuse. However, can you at least provide some hard instances of poor or inaccurate information cited on the sites you've mentioned or alluded to? Credbility is in the pudding.

Thanks.

Agents

macandal said:

If there is a notation on a website I found stating that an agent does not currently accept unsolicited queries, does this mean that I shouldn't contact this agent? That this agent only accepts queries from people who have been referred to him/her? Thanks.

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Once an agent has a certain number of selling writers in his or her stable, there simply isn't time to handle more withut expanding, which means taking on another ganet or assistant to handle the additional business. Such agents do not accept unsolicited queries because the last thing they need is one more bad novel in the slush pile.

When such an agent does take on a new client, that client needs to be a writer who will definitely sell and generate enough money to make the extra work worthwhile.

No unsolicited queries means just what it says, and odds are high that such a query won't even be read, so how good it is probably doesn't matter.

Bodacious has also posted a troll-like attack on the efforts against that now infamous scam publisher, PublishAmerica, on another thread. So, let's get this straight: we're wrong to try and stop a scam publisher who is making a fast buck off of newbie writers, and we're wrong to have watchdog sites to warn peiople of such scams. Well, if you hate my guts too, I'll know who you are, won't I, Willem (or is it Larry or Miranda)?

Note to others: The reference to the fact that Bodacious may be Carl: aka Carl Ross, an individual who has defended PublishAmerica most aggressively on the Publishers Weekly board, widely believed to be one of the owners of PublishAmerica.

Yes, yes, I'm sure that I don't know what I'm talking about either. Well, except that I've been the victim of a scam agent and a scam publisher. If I had known of P & E back when I was a newbie, I would have saved myself a lot of grief. I commend Dave for his selfless efforts to warn folks about the dangers of the publishing industry.

Diana Hignutt
Author of Empress of Clouds (Behler), Finalist-Foreword Magazine's 2004 Book of the Year Award for Science Fiction, Semi-Finalist-2005 IPPY Award for Science Fiction/Fantasy, Nominee-2005 Spectrum Award.

bodacious said:

I've noticed, not only here but elsewhere, that there are mountains of advice given by folks whose only claim to fame is "Writer." Question: how can anyone in whose background there is not evidence of ever having been a literary agent or publisher know so bloody much about being a literary agent or publisher? It seems that the proper place to find information about being a literary agent would be to ask a literary agent. The same goes for being a publisher--ask a publisher. The folks answering inportant questions here either run a site on scams (the difinition of scam by the way according to my dictionary is not the same as the one these folk use) or are just writers. Knowing something about a profession before opening one's mouth should be an important watchword. Would you take advice, for instance, on your brain tumor operation from the operator of a web site or a brain surgeon? Hummm! Think people!!

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The definition of a scam is pretty much the same everywhere. If anyone charges you money for something you can get free elsewhere, it's a scam. If someone charges you money, and then does not deliver promised goods, it's a scam.

Being a professional writer almost certainly means you have dealth with many agents and editors, and have done so in many ways. I've been an editor twice over, but just as important, I know a lot of editors at mainstream publishers. I've worked for agents, but just as important, I know quite a few professional agents.

I do think you're correct is saying you should know what you're talking about before you open your mouth. Most on this board know exactly what they're talking about.

Now, if you can, it's always good to go directly to an agent or an editor. . .assuming you're smart enough to know a good agent or a good editor from a bad agent or a bad editor.

Would you take advice from someone who stands to gain financially by lying to you? That's exactly what you're doing when you listen to agents or editors who charge you money.

"I'm afraid to reveal my identity because I don't want to end up on P&E" makes sense only if you're a scam artist. And if you charge writers money for doing things other agents or editors do for free, you most certainly are a scam artist. Good agents and good editors simply don;t have to change fees. Those who charge fees do so for one reason and one reason only, they're so bad at what they do that the only way they can put money in their pocket is to make writers pay them.

And the stuff about publishers not paying attention to P&E is such silliness that I can't believe anyone would write it. Duh! P&E isn;t for publishers or agents. Publishers and agents are only interested in getting good novels. But haveing worked for both, I can tell you with no uncertainty that the odds of getting a good novel from a fee charging agents is about teh same as the odds of hitting the lottery. It happens, but I wouldn't count on it.

There are always exceptions, and I know two fee charging agents who charge fees solely to make writers stop submitting to them. They were both very successful before they started charging fees, and were just looking for a way to cut down on all the crap coming in. Both charge very high fees just for reading a manuscript. . .so high that most couldn't afford it even if they wished to pay it.

And teh line about would you pay an editor
Comparing web site owners/brain surgeons to writers/agent/editores is one of the silliest things I've ever heard. What, don't you know that brain surgeons also run websites?

The comparison you should be making is the amount of experience mere professional writers have had on all sides of this business versus the amount of experience you've had.

"Would you call it a scam if writers are charged $20 for 10 minutes for a sit down with an agent or an editor?"

It would depend on who the editor is. Just because he calls himself an editor is no reason to pay him money. IF he's an actual editor at a mainstream publisher with a solid record of buying best-selling novels, it migh be worth the twenty bucks. But I guarantee I could get the same information from another equally qualified edior for free.

People try to make this business much more difficult, and much more mysterious, than it really is.

1. An agent who charge fees nearly always charges them because they aren't making enough money selling novels to do without the fees. This means it's an agent you don't want and shouldn't listen to. Period. An agent worth her salt is routinely selling novels to mainstream publishers, and simply doesn't have a need to change fees. Only hacks ask for payment from both ends.

2. Any fool can call themelves an agent. The questin is, how many novels has this agent sold to mainstream publishers, and how well did these novels do. Period.

3. If you're dealing with an editor, how many novels has this editor bought for mainstream publishers, and how well did they do? Period. Worthwhile agents and editors don't charge fees because they don't have to charge fees, and they're smart enough to know that charging fees is counterproductive. You attract the best and teh smartest writers by not charging fees. Period.

4. Getting a good agent is simple. . .you write a novel the agent thinks she can sell. This does take talent, and sometimes experience, and only a very few can do it. But that's life. The reason the vast majority of unpublished writers never become published writers is not because there's anything mysterious about this business, not because you have to listen to this writer, or that agent, or the other editor, but purely and simply because they can't write well enough, can't tell a story well enough, can't create good characters, and have a tin ear for dialogue.

5. Same with editors. When you can't sell to an editor, it isn't because you haven't learned the secret handshake, it's for the same reason you can't get a good agent.

6. You'e a million times better off listening to pro writers than listening to a fee-charging anyone. In this business yu dop not get what you pay for. In this business the appropriate cliche is "A fool and his money are soon parted."

7. With the exception of good writing courses, workshops, and conferences eun by top pro writers, agents, and editors, money should always flow to the writer, never, ever away from him. When someone asks you for money, it's nearly always because they're lousy at what they do, and have to get paid from both ends just to keep the wolf from the door.

8. Top pro agents and top rpo editors are not secluded. It takes very little effort to learn what they think for free. It takes just as little effort to see what novels the top agents have taken on, and what novels the top editors have bought. What more do you need to know?

8. Every published novel out there, particularly ones that sell well, contains all the information you need to publish a novel of your own. You don't need a secret handshake, an unknown password, some hidden information only agents and editors know to become a published writer. None of these things exist. You only need to read these published novels and do tou likewise. All you have to do is add talent and hard work.

9. When people lack talent and dedication, they soon start believing there is some mysterious secret they need to know, and they can learn this by talking to agents and editors or pro writers. Okay, here's the only three secrets there are.

1. You need talent and dedication. You need to be able to write better, you need to learn to tell a better story, build better charcters, write better dialogue.

2. All those published novels are actually textbooks that will teach you how to do each of these things well enough to be published. . .if you have the talent and the dedication.

3. If you're paying money for something you can get free elsewhere, and that won't do you a bit of good anyway, you're an idiot.

I have nothing to do with Predators and Editors but the proof of their worth is in the pudding. Their advice is useful and tallies with the advice of other reliable sites like here and Piers Anthony. I have not been steered wrong by any of these places so long as I season their advice with my own common sense and emphasise the advice of more experienced posters (normally easy to judge by watching their behaviour and checking out their website)

The attributes of these sites and their creators and denizens are careful, factually based advice combined with a calm and reasonable manner. I don't expcet them to be 100% correct but that is down to human fallibiltiy not any kind of conspiracy or personality politics.

Coyote said:

I had a whole response written, but it didn't post because I wasn't logged in apparently, so here I will try to write it again.

So, Christine, your point is that because the folks here respond faster than those elitists editors and agents, you trust their qualifications more? Maybe those editors and agents have better things to do than respond to writers on discussion boards. Maybe they are worrying about what readers want (although I doubt it).

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No, what I am saying is that there is a certain amount of trust you get from certain posters. If Jim or Jenna or Victoria or Susan, for example, post advice about certain things, I trust the information. Why? Because I KNOW for a fact that these people are knowlegeable about certain things. They've been published by some of the biggest houses in the US. They've been around the block a couple of hundred times.

If I ask about an agent, and someone says 'oh, yes, I know that... because I queried them.." well, it's right there. We share information here. No one, that I know of, has a hidden agenda to pass on false information.

Dave runs P&E. The stuff he posts he has collected from other people who have had experience with those people, along with his own research. Same with Writer Beware. There's a certain amount of trust, because it doesn't behoove either of those groups to post false information.

"Charges fees" should be obvioius. None of us wants an agent that charges a "reading fee", because that's where they're getting their money from, not from earning it selling manuscripts.
I find both P&E and Writer Beware to be valuable resources, and I refer people to them often.

Coyotes, bodacious or not, are creatures who do a lot of yipping and slinking around - oft portrayed in lore as cunning mischief makers. Not exactly altruistic beasties, their interests are their own. Our visitor has an agenda. It just remains to be determined what that agenda is.

There are plenty of "writers" here who have agents, and have their books published by REAL publishers. You can actually buy their books in the stores! How's that for a concept. I will take their advice over that of someone "who can't reveal his true identity" anytime.

ANYTIME.