Cramer vs. Stewart smackdown

Plot Device

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Colbert's got a really great thing going, I think. He more than deserved his Emmy and his Peabody Award.

His overall thing about his whole show is that he does a generalized parody of contemporary (not from 50 years ago, but from current day) right wing pundits, and also a very specific parody of today's current reigning king of right wing pundits: Bill O'Reilly. Colbert's got all of O'Reilly's mannerism down perfectly --from the way he simultaneously grips a pencil in his hand while also pointing aggressively with his index finger at the camera, to the way he so authoritatively delivers his talking points Word of the Day. And just as Bill O'Reilly calls his own show "The Factor," Stephen Colbert refers to his own show as "The Report" (pronounced exactly like the word "rapport" is pronounced). And what's more is that Colbert mimmicks with hysterically pitch-perfect exaggeration a lot of the badly flawed logical arguments that some far-right pundits are silly enough to employ with a straight face. And he additinally mimmicks the absolutism and fervant (even self-righteous) conviction expresed by them (and by O'Reilly).

The great thing about Colbert's show is you constantly have to think on multiple levels while you're watching it. You have to always concentrate very hard upon the fact that everything Stephen Colbert says is JUST a parody. He's always "in character" for the full duration of his show. And yet he delivers it all with SUCH authenticity and SUCH conviction that you might sometimes believe that he really thinks this way. So you always need to see through the parody, in spite of how authentic he sounds in his immitation/mockery of right wingers.

And when it comes to his treatment of a guest, Colbert delierately interviews with an artificially built-in degree of ineptitude. He is NOT mocking his guests, he is instead mocking right-wing perceptions by showcasing bad logic and bizarre assumptions which he skillfully incorporates into the strange interview questions he always asks, punctuated by the strange "ah-HAH!" assumptions he comes to during any given interview. It's absolutely hysterical to watch him with a guest when he gets rolling. Most guests "get it" and know how to play along. But every now and then a guest does NOT get it and has no idea how to behave. I love Colbert's vast mental treasure-trove of not-so-obsure pop culture references to things from my own childhood like The Land of the Lost (he mentioned the Sleetak once) and Captain Scarlet (he mentioned the Mysterons just a few weeks ago) and even Triffids.

I especially love it whenever one of those moments happens on the show where a very funny yet totally unscripted event happens, or else the guest says something totally surprising, and Colbert's face cracks up and he ALMOST breaks character. And you can see Colbert fighting with himself NOT to break character. He usually seizes up with this very partricular grin, and then he raises his finger tightly against his own lips as he braces himself against busting out laughing. It takes him usually a whole second or two to get a hold of himself and fight off that laugh. And then, more often than not, after he's finally gotten hold of himself, he comes out with an unscripted one-liner that proves a real zinger capable of bringing the house down.



And I say all of this as a conservative-leaning person in my own right. I know how to laugh at myself and at my own peers. Yes, there are quite a few silly-heads in our midsts (as there are in any polticail group). And it takes a Stephen Colbert to mirror back to us just how silly we can be at times.







.
 
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ColoradoGuy

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I agree with Monkey: in a sense, Stewart has created his own job description. He's a sort of Will Rogers (who also was a liberal democrat), but with a much more wicked use of the knife.
 
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James81

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Colbert appeals more to conservatives and Stewart appeals to more to liberals methinks.

I can tell a difference in their shows. The Colbert Report is definately way more conservative than the Daily Show.

But I hardly take either one of them seriously. They make great points through humor, and are entertaining to watch, but for the most part I see it as entertainment moreso than anything discussion worthy in the serious realm of politics.
 

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Apologies if this has been posted before - it's a neat (albeit brief) behind the scenes look at Colbert chatting with John Kerry before his appearance on The Colbert Report. Funny to peak behind the curtain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfiL2hpnmZ0

Hah! I was right! He warned Senator Kerry: "I'll be in character" and "I'll be willfully ignorant of what we're going to talk about."
 

Plot Device

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Colbert appeals more to conservatives and Stewart appeals to more to liberals methinks.

I can tell a difference in their shows. The Colbert Report is definately way more conservative than the Daily Show.

But I hardly take either one of them seriously. They make great points through humor, and are entertaining to watch, but for the most part I see it as entertainment moreso than anything discussion worthy in the serious realm of politics.


I think you're mssing the point. Colbert is not APPEALING to conservatives, he's MOCKING them. And Colbert won a Peabody for it.
 

Don

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I think you're mssing the point. Colbert is not APPEALING to conservatives, he's MOCKING them. And Colbert won a Peabody for it.
:rolleyes: Oops. :ROFL:

Colbert doesn't do a lot for me, I think for the same reason O'Really is massive fail. OTOH, I see Stewart as the latest in a long line that include, among others, Jonathon Swift, Mark Twain, and, as CG mentioned, Will Rogers, and thoroughly deserving to be mentioned in such august company.
 

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:rolleyes: Oops. :ROFL:

Colbert doesn't do a lot for me, I think for the same reason O'Really is massive fail. OTOH, I see Stewart as the latest in a long line that include, among others, Jonathon Swift, Mark Twain, and, as CG mentioned, Will Rogers, and thoroughly deserving to be mentioned in such august company.


I would agree, though I must admit i never made those comparisons.
 

Plot Device

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This from the AP at 11:30 this morning:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29666141/

Stewart hammers Cramer on ‘The Daily Show’

‘Mad Money’ host takes shots for putting entertainment above journalism

updated 11:34 a.m. ET, Fri., March. 13, 2009

NEW YORK - Jon Stewart hammered Jim Cramer and his network, CNBC, in their anticipated face-off on “The Daily Show,” repeatedly chastising the “Mad Money” host for putting entertainment above journalism.

“I understand that you want to make finance entertaining, but it’s not a ... game,” Stewart told Cramer, adding in an expletive during the show’s Thursday taping.

It was perhaps the hardest lashing Stewart has given to a TV commentator since 2004 when he called Tucker Carlson and his then co-host Paul Begala “partisan hacks” on CNN’s “Crossfire,” the since canceled political commentary program.

The program opened in mock hype of the confrontation, which caught headlines through the week as each snipped at the other over the air. The show announced it as “the weeklong feud of the century.”
 

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Another view of the controversial interview, via Yahoo! this morning.

A couple of choice quotes:

"In a tremendous boom period, they covered the boom and people wanted to believe in the boom," said Andrew Leckey, a former CNBC anchor and now president of the Donald W. Reynolds National Center for Business Journalism at Arizona State University. "They didn't uncover the lies that were told to them. Nobody did. But they should be held to a higher responsibility."

Hmmm. I'd say the man's got a point, wouldn't you? But then some folks fire back:

"A politician stumbles over himself," MSNBC "Morning Joe" host Joe Scarborough said on his own program. "Then they pick it out. They edit it. He runs the clip, and then he makes a funny face, and the whole audience has a Pavlovian response. And you know what? It's really easy to be a comedian and take those cheap shots."


"Stewart's a comedian and Cramer is a showman," said Robert Howell, professor at Dartmouth University's Tuck School of Business. "If anybody takes seriously anything that (Cramer) says, they're stupid."
 
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:rolleyes: Oops. :ROFL:

Colbert doesn't do a lot for me, I think for the same reason O'Really is massive fail. OTOH, I see Stewart as the latest in a long line that include, among others, Jonathon Swift, Mark Twain, and, as CG mentioned, Will Rogers, and thoroughly deserving to be mentioned in such august company.

Jon Stewart and Mark Twain and Will Rogers. Uh....

Pfffh.

_________

I've never seen Cramer. I just wonder why he sat there like a hump and didn't say "I made some bad picks. F.U."

:Shrug:
 

Mr. Chuckletrousers

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Stewart didn't even use the most damning portions of Cramer's 2006 tell-all video. At one point in that video he starts advising Hedge Fund managers to "spread rumors" among "bozo reporters" in order to manipulate stocks, and says specifically to "leak it to the press, get it on CNBC...it's a pretty good game". Some other choice quotes:

In order to make money it's important to "not do anything remotely truthful",

(about the market): "its just fiction and fiction and fiction",

"who cares about the fundamentals (i.e. of stocks)",

"the market has nothing to do with the actual stocks".

The video makes it extremely clear, in a way that Stewart did not, that Cramer knew about the "shenanigans" and knew that CNBC was just repeating the lies and false rumors of stock manipulators, despite his protestations to the contrary.
 
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GeorgeK

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I've never seen Cramer. I just wonder why he sat there like a hump and didn't say "I made some bad picks. F.U."

:Shrug:

He didn't because he knows that he's lost. Best case scenario, Cramer has proven himself to be incompetent and therefore soon out of a job; worst case scenario he's culpable and going to prison.

Stewart may lean a bit to one side of the fence, but he's honest about it. My favorite quote from that interview was Stewart saying to Cramer, "You and I both sell snakeoil, but I label mine as snakeoil instead of as a cure for impetigo," (maybe it was a different disease).

I've seen an episode or two of Cramer's stuff in the past and lumped him into the same "Don't believe him," category as almost all the shows on the news stations that have a proper name in the title of the show, Limbaugh, Dobbs, Cavuto, etc..

I don't think I've trusted a News Anchor since Frank Reynolds. Stewart is entertaining and at least I think he really tries to be fair. He's at his heart an honest man and that seems to be getting more and more rare these days.
 
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tomber

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I went to the site to watch the clips. I left the site an hour and a half later.

Best. Show. Ever.

Honestly, I feel bad for people who don't get The Daily Show.

Then there are those who get it, but don't like it. Everyone's entitled to have the completely wrong opinion, I suppose. :)
 

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He didn't because he knows that he's lost. Best case scenario, Cramer has proven himself to be incompetent and therefore soon out of a job; worst case scenario he's culpable and going to prison.

Let's get real, now: Jim Cramer is not going to prison. He has been seriously outed, however, as an imbecile. Not good for his career.

caw
 

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Colbert appeals more to conservatives and Stewart appeals to more to liberals methinks.

I can tell a difference in their shows. The Colbert Report is definately way more conservative than the Daily Show.

But I hardly take either one of them seriously. They make great points through humor, and are entertaining to watch, but for the most part I see it as entertainment moreso than anything discussion worthy in the serious realm of politics.

I have no idea what your political leanings are, but I've met a few who had no idea Colbert was mocking them. I can't imagine how the audience's laughter and the "Word" segment didn't tip these folk off that it was a joke. Do they watch while they're vacuuming, or something?
 
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BIG_ZI_ZORRO

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Cramer and the peter principle

Cramer was probably one of the best traders there was, but he rose to his own level of incompetence. He knew what he was doing, he got a show and a good amount of money, got wreckless and cost a lot of people their money. Its easy to make money in the market when you understand how it works. I was a stock broker that left the business cause it was too dishonest. Its almost impossible to be a good broker for your clients because of the tactics that brokerage houses do. Brokers that are good that have a big book get pressured to sell the lesser quality products that make more money for the brokerage houses. Those that don't comply get forced out. Try and call your book of 300 clients before an office of 100-150 brokers calls it and incinerates your book! Markets trade on two things: Emotion Vs. Real Value. Years back when everyone was lying about their income and hoping to get rich flipping properties, the market was trading on this euphoria that we're all going to get rich. While this was happening I was telling people, How in the world can the people ever pay for these properties let alone the new taxes they incurred. The banks were selling the high balloon interest only mortgages with only one thing in mind, to let the people stay a couple years, take the interest, force the defaulters out and then flip the property again. Well every bank especially CitiBank did it to the point where it just blew up in their faces. They created the bubble and once it burst there was no way out for the banks cause they loaned money on properties that were over inflated by emotion and they loaned 100%. People had no incentive to stay and as the wave of sellers hit the market it created a downward spiral that destroyed the whole economy and to this day is still eating away at it. Plus down here in Miami, a lot of foreign investors that bought property cheap 10-15 years ago refinanced their 5 or 6 properties at 100% again and went back to their country with the money. They didn't commit fraud, they just sold their property back to the stupid greedy banks without having to pay a realtor fee. Neither Cramer or anyone on CNBC or any show for that matter has admitted to this day that we are in a severe deflationary spiral and that the latest uptick week in the market was created by the lies of the 2 biggest bank executives. The CEO of Citi said they were one of the better capitalized banks in the world. If that's the case then we really are in trouble. That's why the US govt. owns 36% of their stock now! I told people over a year ago that Citi was going out and they actually did. They should have never bailed them out. Wamu is doing fine under chase, Wachovia is doing fine under Wells Fargo and Citi would be doing just fine if they just carved them up and sold them off. We punished Shearson Lehman, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac and we're still here. You don't get rid of nor punish the incompetent greedy no good organizations they are by bailing them out. You wouldn't bail out the mafia so why bail out a bunch of people that are just as bad. They are never going to change. They are crooks. What the government needs to do is not bail them out, but take over the foreclosures at the real market value of the property, let the banks who loaned them that money eat the difference and fail if need be and let the equity investors who took the risk eat it, clean up the forclosures and the incompetent banks, sell off all the unsavable forclosures at bargain prices and then and only then will property values return to what they're really worth which is what the people based on the economy of that area can afford. Simple. Bailing out the mafia only prolongs the mess. Citi was worth 1.2 trillion and now they would be insolvent if it wasn't for us. How much fraud did they have to commit to trash a company of that size in just 2 years. Is anymore of it left? You bet there's still plenty!!! One thing is for sure and that's when the government finally goes through all the paperwork and finds out who signed off on the loans, who rated the securities at ratings that were unrealistic and who is responsible for all the fraud, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO JAIL. When I was a broker in 1987 Ivan Bolsky was fined $100,000,000.00 and he wrote a check to the Sec. Millken the Drexel Burnham Lembair junk bond man caused 10 million people to come out of retirement and when he was fined $600,000,000.00 he paid the fine and kept an extra billion and went to a resort federal prison for a couple of years. Well Koslowsky is in Jail, the president of World Com is in jail, the owners of SBC communications are in jail, (Every dog has their day, just like Kenneth Leigh - DEAD). Madoff is never going to get out of jail and come next week the judge is not going to honor his appeal to be out on bail unless he just doesn't value his own life. The age of accountability is upon us, I'm a republican and believe in conservative spending, but that party has lost touch with reality and I voted for Obama which we should thank our lucky stars we have. He's at least willing to admit we have a problem and address it. He's not perfect, but he's got everybody talking and debating as to what we should do. We have to spend our way out of this horrendous Deflationary Spiral and punish the thieves. Wall street cries that if they're regulated a lot of people will leave and we'll lose the talent. The only thing we'll lose are the thieves and people will have to represent real value in companies and securities again and we'll be all the better for it. There are tons of Madoffs on wallstreet and they are habitual liars. Madoff was going to turn himself in while he's got over 150 million in checks in his drawer made out to friends. He's a crook and he's never coming out of jail. We need to punish the crooks, help those that can be helped and deserve to be helped, let the banks fail that committed the fraud and the smaller banking systems will take over and fill the gap just fine and we can all get back to reality. As far as Cramer goes, he's not going to jail, he made too many disclaimers - But he did lose face and suffered a career ending injury. So did Bank of America & Citi Corp. These institutions will never be like they we're before. When all the smoke clears and people realize fully what they did which is going to take years and years, they'll take their business elsewhere and these institutions will fall to the wayside. Where do you invest now? You wait! you talk with your neighbor and friends and ask them how they're doing. This market is not going to roar back. You'll be lucky to see the Dow over 10,000 by 2014. We have too much debt and unemployment is going to 12% as more and more of the fraud that these banks committed keeps surfacing or they finally realize that they can't put a price on the toxic debt nor do we have enough money to cover it all. Good long term plays are companies, not banks, that are making money like GE, Allianz Life, Lowes, Home Depot, Coca Cola etc. They won't come roaring back, but they'll come back as we come back. We're in another bear market suckers rally again and the Dow broke 6705 a few weeks ago which was 10% below the previous 52 week low. Once that happens you can count on another 10%. More lies drove us over 7000 again, but this market is headed to 6035 and if it breaks that just take off another 10%. This market could see 5432 before it finally bottoms out. Bears prosper - Bulls prosper, but the PIGS get slaughtered. Don't get greedy now, you'll just get slaughtered! The pigs are getting slaughtered now. Can't you hear the crying and squealing? Everyone that thought it never would happen and believed that 9-12% yearly return on their stocks would never end is getting slaughtered. There are no bargains out there yet. Does anyone out there really believe that Bank of America & Citi Corp are out of the woods yet? Ridiculous. I personally think that Citi corp is unsavable. That's what a bunch of thieves and liars they are. And when unemployment hits 12% what's going to happen with all the credit card debt? The smart people are paying off their credit card debt and not using their cards anymore which creates even more pressure on the banks because no ones using their cards and the ones that are using them are only doing that until they finally default. They made their bed and as desperate as they are to keep lying and cheating and lying and cheating some just can't be saved. They'll be singing one day soon! - Humpty Citi sat on a wall, Humpty Citi had a great fall, all the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put that lying cheating thieving Humpty Citi back together again. And Cramer was a fool for saying that letting Citi Corp go under would be a disaster. Carve those cry babies up, spank their bottoms and send them back to their mommies. I loved Cramer because he really did know what he was doing until he got too rich and starting sleeping with all the whores on wall street and it blew up in his face and a lot of good people got hurt. He finally rose to his own level of incompetence. He was a great trader, but he's a horrible entertainer. Nobody's laughing anymore and nobody thinks he's cute anymore.
 

Dommo

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Actually a pretty good post, but next time put some paragraphs in so it's easier to read. :p
 

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Wow!

That's a long, insightful post from someone who knows what they're talking about.



Could you please put paragraph breaks in there? Somewhere?
 

sulong

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Cramer was probably one of the best traders there was, but he rose to his own level of incompetence. He knew what he was doing, he got a show and a good amount of money, got wreckless and cost a lot of people their money. Its easy to make money in the market when you understand how it works.


I was a stock broker that left the business cause it was too dishonest. Its almost impossible to be a good broker for your clients because of the tactics that brokerage houses do. Brokers that are good that have a big book get pressured to sell the lesser quality products that make more money for the brokerage houses. Those that don't comply get forced out. Try and call your book of 300 clients before an office of 100-150 brokers calls it and incinerates your book! Markets trade on two things: Emotion Vs. Real Value.


Years back when everyone was lying about their income and hoping to get rich flipping properties, the market was trading on this euphoria that we're all going to get rich. While this was happening I was telling people, How in the world can the people ever pay for these properties let alone the new taxes they incurred. The banks were selling the high balloon interest only mortgages with only one thing in mind, to let the people stay a couple years, take the interest, force the defaulters out and then flip the property again.


Well every bank especially CitiBank did it to the point where it just blew up in their faces. They created the bubble and once it burst there was no way out for the banks cause they loaned money on properties that were over inflated by emotion and they loaned 100%. People had no incentive to stay and as the wave of sellers hit the market it created a downward spiral that destroyed the whole economy and to this day is still eating away at it.


Plus down here in Miami, a lot of foreign investors that bought property cheap 10-15 years ago refinanced their 5 or 6 properties at 100% again and went back to their country with the money. They didn't commit fraud, they just sold their property back to the stupid greedy banks without having to pay a realtor fee.


Neither Cramer or anyone on CNBC or any show for that matter has admitted to this day that we are in a severe deflationary spiral and that the latest uptick week in the market was created by the lies of the 2 biggest bank executives.
The CEO of Citi said they were one of the better capitalized banks in the world. If that's the case then we really are in trouble. That's why the US govt. owns 36% of their stock now!


I told people over a year ago that Citi was going out and they actually did. They should have never bailed them out. Wamu is doing fine under chase, Wachovia is doing fine under Wells Fargo and Citi would be doing just fine if they just carved them up and sold them off.
We punished Shearson Lehman, Fannie Mae & Freddie Mac and we're still here. You don't get rid of nor punish the incompetent greedy no good organizations they are by bailing them out. You wouldn't bail out the mafia so why bail out a bunch of people that are just as bad. They are never going to change. They are crooks.


What the government needs to do is not bail them out, but take over the foreclosures at the real market value of the property, let the banks who loaned them that money eat the difference and fail if need be and let the equity investors who took the risk eat it, clean up the forclosures and the incompetent banks, sell off all the unsavable forclosures at bargain prices and then and only then will property values return to what they're really worth which is what the people based on the economy of that area can afford. Simple.


Bailing out the mafia only prolongs the mess. Citi was worth 1.2 trillion and now they would be insolvent if it wasn't for us. How much fraud did they have to commit to trash a company of that size in just 2 years. Is anymore of it left? You bet there's still plenty!!! One thing is for sure and that's when the government finally goes through all the paperwork and finds out who signed off on the loans, who rated the securities at ratings that were unrealistic and who is responsible for all the fraud, A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO JAIL.


When I was a broker in 1987 Ivan Bolsky was fined $100,000,000.00 and he wrote a check to the Sec. Millken the Drexel Burnham Lembair junk bond man caused 10 million people to come out of retirement and when he was fined $600,000,000.00 he paid the fine and kept an extra billion and went to a resort federal prison for a couple of years.
Well Koslowsky is in Jail, the president of World Com is in jail, the owners of SBC communications are in jail, (Every dog has their day, just like Kenneth Leigh - DEAD). Madoff is never going to get out of jail and come next week the judge is not going to honor his appeal to be out on bail unless he just doesn't value his own life.


The age of accountability is upon us, I'm a republican and believe in conservative spending, but that party has lost touch with reality and I voted for Obama which we should thank our lucky stars we have. He's at least willing to admit we have a problem and address it. He's not perfect, but he's got everybody talking and debating as to what we should do.
We have to spend our way out of this horrendous Deflationary Spiral and punish the thieves. Wall street cries that if they're regulated a lot of people will leave and we'll lose the talent. The only thing we'll lose are the thieves and people will have to represent real value in companies and securities again and we'll be all the better for it.


There are tons of Madoffs on wallstreet and they are habitual liars. Madoff was going to turn himself in while he's got over 150 million in checks in his drawer made out to friends. He's a crook and he's never coming out of jail. We need to punish the crooks, help those that can be helped and deserve to be helped, let the banks fail that committed the fraud and the smaller banking systems will take over and fill the gap just fine and we can all get back to reality. As far as Cramer goes, he's not going to jail, he made too many disclaimers - But he did lose face and suffered a career ending injury.


So did Bank of America & Citi Corp. These institutions will never be like they we're before. When all the smoke clears and people realize fully what they did which is going to take years and years, they'll take their business elsewhere and these institutions will fall to the wayside.


Where do you invest now? You wait! you talk with your neighbor and friends and ask them how they're doing. This market is not going to roar back. You'll be lucky to see the Dow over 10,000 by 2014. We have too much debt and unemployment is going to 12% as more and more of the fraud that these banks committed keeps surfacing or they finally realize that they can't put a price on the toxic debt nor do we have enough money to cover it all. Good long term plays are companies, not banks, that are making money like GE, Allianz Life, Lowes, Home Depot, Coca Cola etc. They won't come roaring back, but they'll come back as we come back.


We're in another bear market suckers rally again and the Dow broke 6705 a few weeks ago which was 10% below the previous 52 week low. Once that happens you can count on another 10%.
More lies drove us over 7000 again, but this market is headed to 6035 and if it breaks that just take off another 10%. This market could see 5432 before it finally bottoms out.


Bears prosper - Bulls prosper, but the PIGS get slaughtered. Don't get greedy now, you'll just get slaughtered!
The pigs are getting slaughtered now. Can't you hear the crying and squealing? Everyone that thought it never would happen and believed that 9-12% yearly return on their stocks would never end is getting slaughtered. There are no bargains out there yet.


Does anyone out there really believe that Bank of America & Citi Corp are out of the woods yet? Ridiculous. I personally think that Citi corp is unsavable. That's what a bunch of thieves and liars they are.


And when unemployment hits 12% what's going to happen with all the credit card debt? The smart people are paying off their credit card debt and not using their cards anymore which creates even more pressure on the banks because no ones using their cards and the ones that are using them are only doing that until they finally default. They made their bed and as desperate as they are to keep lying and cheating and lying and cheating some just can't be saved.


They'll be singing one day soon! - Humpty Citi sat on a wall, Humpty Citi had a great fall, all the kings horses and all the kings men, couldn't put that lying cheating thieving Humpty Citi back together again.


And Cramer was a fool for saying that letting Citi Corp go under would be a disaster. Carve those cry babies up, spank their bottoms and send them back to their mommies. I loved Cramer because he really did know what he was doing until he got too rich and starting sleeping with all the whores on wall street and it blew up in his face and a lot of good people got hurt. He finally rose to his own level of incompetence. He was a great trader, but he's a horrible entertainer. Nobody's laughing anymore and nobody thinks he's cute anymore.


I took the liberty of adding some white space in your post. Hopefully, it'll now be easer to read.
 
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StephanieFox

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Zorro:

Thanks for posting your insightful screed. I'm another that is asking for paragraphs. I had to copy your post and put it on my Word program so I could break it up into paragraphs to read it.

As far a Cramer going to jail, it'll never happen, at least for the things he did on the air. But for the rest of them, I hope it happens. History is not on the side of the very rich getting jail time in all but a few high-profile cases, but I hope it happens and soon.

Of course, with drug dealers, as soon as the head dude gets put in prison another comes up to fill his place. I think the same will happen with the current economic system.

I am resentful, it true. I played by all the rules; low debt, I've been extremely thrifty, I dollar cost averaged everything I could for years. Even when I was 8-years old, my birthday money went into savings. Feh! I could have been partying and instead, I'm just screwed.

Thanks for your info. Please post again. This time with paragraphs.
 

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I want to focus on this one quote from our new poster:

Years back when everyone was lying about their income and hoping to get rich flipping properties, the market was trading on this euphoria that we're all going to get rich. While this was happening I was telling people, How in the world can the people ever pay for these properties let alone the new taxes they incurred. The banks were selling the high balloon interest only mortgages with only one thing in mind, to let the people stay a couple years, take the interest, force the defaulters out and then flip the property again.

This quote reminded me of a movie I saw as a kid (and I'm amazed I was able to find it on the internet this morning after I read Zorro's post).

The following YouTube video is footage from the 1979 made-for-TV movie An American Christmas Carol starring Henry Winkler in the role of Scrooge (the character's name is changed to Benedict Slade for this version). It takes place in rural New Hampshire in the depths of the Great Depression during Christmas of 1933, and Slade (Scrooge) runs a repo business. The movie starts off showing him taking reposession of people's property on Christmas Eve.

There is also a flashback (actually it's the vision he experiences when the Ghost of Christmas Past comes to him) where he was a young man and is first getting into the whole repo business. If you wish to see this portion, go to Part Six and jump ahead to 4:40 and watch for about one full minute. We witness a business conversation (circa WWI) where the new concept of "time payment" gets explained by Slade/Scrooge to his future partner Jack Latham (Jacob Marley). We learn from this conversation that people can borrow money to buy stuff now, and if they default on the loan, just repo what they bought and sell it again -- repo it a hundred times and sell it a hundred times. The repo man can't lose in any way in that particular deal. This movie script took the time to include this bit of dialogue in an effort to explain to that 1979 American TV audience exactly what predatory lending was all about. But in the 1930's laws were enacted to prevent predatory lending, so by the 1970's it was virtually unheard if.

Now here we are in the 2000's, and predatory lending --because of all the deregulation of that past 15 years undermining those wise and much-needed anti-predatory laws-- has once again become this nation's downfall.

There's also (in the fourth video installment, skip ahead to 6:45) a very brief and to-the-point treatise about the need to keep the American economy centered primarilly upon a base of quality manufacturing and not cheap substitutes. And "the high cost of low price" is also touched upon very briefly in that same scene as far as the long-term detriment of quality goods being usurped by cheap mass-produced goods.

An American Christmas Carol - Part One of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Two of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Three of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Four of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Five of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Six of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Seven of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Eight of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Nine of Ten
An American Christmas Carol - Part Ten of Ten

If you watch just the first installment (each is ten minutes long) you'll get a good sense of the intended tone of the entire film. And they even have (in that first video installment) a sad tribute to the dignity and worth of books when Slade/Scrooge goes to reposess everything in a local book store and then proceeds to rip the leather bindings off the books for the sake of selling the leather.

I want also to point out that the movie employed an interesting cinematic device of using the radio to portend the arrival of each new ghost. Scrooge/Slade was sitting in bed listening to a radio (one he had just reposessed) and the arrival of the Ghost of Christmas Past was preceded by the strange radio broadcasts from many years earlier. The Ghost of Chrstmas Present had current day broadcasts, and the Ghost of Christmas Future had radio broadcasts from the 1950's on through to the 1970's, including rock, funk, and soul music. And the actors who played each ghost were the same actors who had their propery reposessed earlier that day by Scrooge/Slade. (This is an old stage gimmick akin to the actors who played the farm hands from Dorothy Gale's farm being re-used to play the Scarecrow, Lion, and Tinman.)



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Don

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Here's a take on the smackdown from Daniel Sinker at HuffPo. Sinker argued that Cramer and most observers have missed Stewart's message by focusing too much on Cramer.
Near the end of the interview (which, if somehow you haven't seen it, is worth watching), Cramer begins to weasel out an explanation to Stewart (the specifics are unimportant, but if you need to know it involved why Cramer utilizes banana cream pies in his financial program) when Stewart interrupts him and says, indignantly, "As Carly Simon would say, 'This song ain't about you.'" It was a point largely lost on Cramer, who continued to defend his own show against Stewart's much larger indictment, but it was also a point lost on the many media outlets that covered this basic cable dustup as actual, honest-to-god news.

You see, Stewart's real critique wasn't about Cramer, it was also only marginally about CNBC. Instead, Stewart's real rage comes from the role the modern media has created for itself: the role of cheerleader instead of watchdog, of favoring surface over depth, of respecting authority instead of questioning it.
Bolding mine.

His thesis statement is powerful.
When we can't compete with a comic in terms of speaking truth to power, then it's more clear than ever that journalism in the US has lost its way.
His wrapup calls out the whole Fourth Estate, and rightly so.
What's to miss--the refrain is always repeated--is the investigative reporting that helps to keep our leaders honest, our water clean, our businesses pure. What's to miss is people asking fearless questions to those that need them asked. What's to miss is the deep pockets that can fund a reporter to dig and dig and dig until she's able to uncover some fragile truth. And yes, that stuff is vital to the functioning of a democracy. It also, let's speak the truth here, doesn't happen very often.

Traditional news organizations have nothing to lose right now. Why not take a gamble at the one thing they haven't tried: being fearless. Stewart would probably appreciate the company.
 

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It is funny, albeit sadly so, when Freedom of the Press isn't taken as license to root out things more important than the sundry personal crises of celebrities.

I suppose they're as free to slack off and pander as any of us. Perhaps having seventeen hours of live programming on a network, like Cramer whined about to Jon Stewart, is a big part of the problem. If that's the case, then please, please let us go back to the Star-Spangled banner being played at 1am, sending the works into hissing static until the next morning.

"They're heeee-re."