Distressed at a Buddhist conversation

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semilargeintestine

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I don't need you to become an atheist, nor do I even need you to stop believing that it occurred. But you have made a claim to try and trump other religious claims, and you also claimed that it required no faith to accept. Except now we have to trust that it occurred because you can't supply even 1% of the testimonies that you claim once existed.

Why do you take everything I post and turn it into some sort of pissing contest? I stated a fact about Judaism and how it relates to other religions in an attempt to give some interesting information to someone who thought all religions required blind faith, and you--once again--somehow manage to turn it into me claiming Jews are better than everyone else. I'm really getting sick of it. You claim we're paranoid, but jeez-a-loo. Not everything I say is an attack at other people.

I have three issues with your post, and they're not with your belief but your representation of it: weak reasoning, bad scholarship and poor ethics.

You've now moved from debating beliefs to insulting me, and I'm not putting up with that bull. If you want to have an intelligent conversation, I'm more than happy to do so. If you want to start a mud-slinging match, you're out of luck because I'm not going to do it.
 

Ruv Draba

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I stated a fact about Judaism and how it relates to other religions in an attempt to give some interesting information to someone who thought all religions required blind faith, and you--once again--somehow manage to turn it into me claiming Jews are better than everyone else.
Except that it was opinion misrepresented as fact, and what made me bite was the outright inaccuracy and unsupported grandiosity.

I actually don't want to bite you, but my logic ties directly to my immune system. A single inaccuracy or wild claim won't set me off but this is happening every day, SLI. I'm getting allergies. Judaism is a faith worthy of respect and recognition and I for one am interested to learn more about it, but I don't believe that you're supplying information so much as proselytic opinion. I'd believe it was information if you had more links, were less inaccurate and stopped overselling. I think your current way of posting on this topic is making you a lousy ambassador and guide.

I'd draw your attention to the Golden Rule here:
Respect for each other, and for beliefs sometimes alien to ourselves, is the order of the day here.
In the course of the last few days you've described non-Judaic religions as immoral, non-Judaic law as either non-existent or irrelevant, and most recently, all religions bar Judaism as faith-based.

Pushing it, much?

Some hopefully constructive suggestions: please keep it relevant; please check your historical facts before you post; please post links where information might be questionable; please clearly mark opinion or belief and don't represent it as fact; please stop dissing other faiths as being less important, moral, original than your own.

Hugs, Ruv.
 
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semilargeintestine

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Except that it was opinion misrepresented as fact, and what made me bite was the outright inaccuracy and unsupported grandiosity.

The fact that you don't believe it happened doesn't mean it didn't. Lots of people deny the Holocaust too.

I don't believe that you're supplying information so much as proselytic opinion. I'd believe it was information if you had more links, were less inaccurate and stopped overselling.

How am I being inaccurate? Are you, an atheist, trying to tell me you know more about what a frum Jew believes than a frum Jew? I'd be more willing to discuss things with you if you didn't constantly misrepresent my posts and try to sell me as a supremacist missionary. Maybe you should take some of your own advice.

I'd draw your attention to the Golden Rule here:
In the course of the last few days you've described non-Judaic religions as immoral, non-Judaic law as either non-existent or irrelevant, and most recently, all religions bar Judaism as faith-based.

Pushing it, much?

Now you're just lying, and it is starting to piss me off. I never said any other religion is immoral except maybe extremist Islam and the beliefs of the Ancient world. I only said morality started with Judaism. Christianity and many of the religions around today DID NOT EXIST when Judaism started.

Or putting it in a more constructive way maybe: Judaism is a faith worthy of respect and recognition and I for one am interested to learn more about it, but I think your aggressive over-selling is making you a lousy ambassador and guide.

And I think your constant misrepresentation of my posts and continuous throwing of insults makes you a terrible representative for atheists so I guess we're even.

More constructive suggestions: please keep it relevant; please check your historical facts before you post; please post links where information might be questionable; please clearly mark opinion or belief and don't represent it as fact; please stop dissing other faiths as being less important, moral, original than your own.

Some suggestions for you: stop reading a post the way you want to read it and start reading what's actually there. When someone says that they want everyone to get along, don't throw in your own anti-Semitic opinions that all Jews want people to be subservient to them under some world-wide Jewish kingdom. Another one would be to stop taking someone's beliefs and making them invalid compared to your own. You tell me that I basically put my beliefs as being right and everyone else's as being wrong--isn't that what ALL religions do? Isn't that what you do as an atheist? You just told me that my beliefs are my "opinion" and not fact. That very statement alone says that you think your beliefs ARE fact. Practice what you preach brother man.

I actually don't want to bite you, but my logic ties directly to my limbic system.

You can bite all you want. I'm not here to convert anyone. I really could care less whether you start to believe in G-d or not. It really makes no difference to me one way or another. I simply wanted some interesting debate, but you turned that into an argument. Mazel tov.

Also, your logic is filled with holes. Saying that someone's beliefs cannot be fact because they are unable to name all 3 million people present at the Revelation is NOT logic. Sorry.

Hugs, Ruv.

Have the best day ever!
:Hug2:
 

Ruv Draba

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SLI I can see that my arguments are antagonising you and I regret that. I also believe that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'll try and keep it simple:
  1. Your beliefs may also be fact, but you can't claim them as fact here just because you believe them. If you claim them as beliefs then I won't argue, but if you claim them as fact then anyone here can ask for objective evidence. If you don't have that evidence then you've overstepped in making the claim.
  2. In saying that something isn't a fact, I'm not saying that it's false -- I'm saying that you haven't demonstrated it.
  3. A wild generalisation that proves historically untrue is an inaccuracy. As a single example:
I only said morality started with Judaism
I think you mean 'Judaeo-Christian morality started with Judaism', which I'd accept as at least partially true. But to claim anything beyond that is an aforementioned wild generalisation, with the unfortunate and highly offensive implication that any culture untouched by Judaeo-Christian notions of morality is either immoral or amoral.

I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
 
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ColoradoGuy

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I think it's best I close this thread, at least for a while. This room is an interesting experiment -- if it is possible to explain and listen, without judging. I think we've wandered a bit from that goal here.
 
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