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Thread: Purgatory's Pit of Doom

  1. #14576
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    Gah! Car troubles, internet stalkers, and 13-hour work weeks. Maggoccinos all around. Also, puppy-cuddles. Good for what ails ya. (Unless what ails ya is an allergy to dogs.)

    I dreamed all night about changing every thing I've ever written to first person. Kill me now.
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


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  2. #14577
    A new year, a new avatar Snappy's Avatar
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    (((Cricket))) 13 hour day = pure evil. Thank goodness for doggehs!

    (((Dr. Ink))) May you get some rest soon.

    (((Amarie))) Are people really that pathetic that they stalk others on the internet? I mean come on! Get a life (not you, evil stalker person).

    (((Red))) POV change? *double maggotini for you*
    Last edited by Snappy; 02-28-2012 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Red
    ~ Just Snappy

  3. #14578
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    *sniff sniff* An editor who already rejected my chapter book just tweeted that she's dying for a good early chapter book. Oops -- I guess I didn't take care of that "good" part.

    I've never written in first, Red (except an unpublished PB). I wonder if it would be a creative breakthrough. I'm thinking of writing my fantasy (if I ever write it) in first because that would keep me from getting too Once-upon-a-timish. And fortunately my princess MC is articulate, introspective, and observant.

  4. #14579
    optimist Teriann's Avatar
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    Cricket, your life is crazy.

    Yes, that's me in the avi. So now I can see you all so you'd better behave. (Took about 200 shots to get one I liked. That's the problem with getting older. You look at your photo and feel horrified. Who is that person with the gray strands and wrinkles? I had to pull out the curling iron. I went all out.

    I found a neat trick a long time ago. I write my first draft in first person, then switch to third. In first, I tend to ramble more, putting in more thoughts, getting more into the character's head.

    Kell, I don't know how you can even do twitter. BTW, I thought of you reading an editor interview in which she said they don't even buy picture books because nobody has any idea what picture books will sell.

    More coming soon. Metaphysical question: Are two shorter posts better than one long one?

  5. #14580
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    I always find 1st person a useful technique for exploring characters. That's really the cruelest part. The chapters the agent wants changed? In my first draft, they were in first person. I didn't think it worked that well. I changed it to third. Apparently, I was wrong. :P
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


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    A Kiss from Krampus, now in paperback!! tinyurl.com/krampusamzpprbk

  6. #14581
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    Two posts are easier to read.

    Speaking of first, I just read a book (more of a legend than fantasy) in first that used a big cheat to misdirect the reader, with a very thin explanation at the end for why a noble character had a London street thug's voice. I get more annoyed when first person narrators hide too much from me -- quite your lying!

    ETA: I think the book would have worked better in third. The character could SPEAK in a thug's voice but in close third, the thoughts wouldn't have had to be so false.
    Last edited by kellion92; 02-28-2012 at 08:06 PM.

  7. #14582
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    I agree, two posts are easier to read.

    And exactly, Kell! Third person allows you to present the character in one way, while having them be another way. In my case, I have a main character who almost never speaks. Maybe a hundred words in the whole novel. So having whole chapters in her voice seriously undercuts that effect.
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


    A Kiss from Krampus: tinyurl.com/kissfromkrampus


    A Kiss from Krampus, now in paperback!! tinyurl.com/krampusamzpprbk

  8. #14583
    optimist Teriann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedScylla View Post
    I always find 1st person a useful technique for exploring characters. That's really the cruelest part. The chapters the agent wants changed? In my first draft, they were in first person. I didn't think it worked that well. I changed it to third. Apparently, I was wrong. :P
    In the opinion of one person.

    I went to a presentation by two court clerks who had honestly gotten to the point where they truly believed everything their judge did and said was the absolute truth.

    Criminal Defense Attorney: When your judge labels an argument frivolous, it prevents us from appealing to a higher court.
    Clerk: Why would you want to appeal to a higher court if the argument is frivolous?
    CDA: GAHHHH!

    Some readers have weird quirks about first person. I've gone through phases when I hated reading first person.

    Probably from an editor's viewpoint, a lot more drivel gets produced in first person. Personally I think it's easier to write but harder to write well.

  9. #14584
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    Hmm, Red, you could make a strong case for having the whole book in first EXCEPT your main character. The POV will stand out more, especially if Ke11en is in 1st, and show the distance that she places between herself and others. Clearly it will be a motivated decision.

  10. #14585
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teriann View Post
    In the opinion of one person.

    I went to a presentation by two court clerks who had honestly gotten to the point where they truly believed everything their judge did and said was the absolute truth.

    Criminal Defense Attorney: When your judge labels an argument frivolous, it prevents us from appealing to a higher court.
    Clerk: Why would you want to appeal to a higher court if the argument is frivolous?
    CDA: GAHHHH!

    Some readers have weird quirks about first person. I've gone through phases when I hated reading first person.

    Probably from an editor's viewpoint, a lot more drivel gets produced in first person. Personally I think it's easier to write but harder to write well.
    Well, that's why they got the tongue sticking out. In *their* opinion, I was wrong. Pleh.

    Quote Originally Posted by kellion92 View Post
    Hmm, Red, you could make a strong case for having the whole book in first EXCEPT your main character. The POV will stand out more, especially if Ke11en is in 1st, and show the distance that she places between herself and others. Clearly it will be a motivated decision.
    Well, that's problematic, too, when you've got nearly a dozen narrators. I feel like I need variety, to keep the reader from getting overwhelmed. Odd fucking book gotta cause me problems.
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


    A Kiss from Krampus: tinyurl.com/kissfromkrampus


    A Kiss from Krampus, now in paperback!! tinyurl.com/krampusamzpprbk

  11. #14586
    optimist Teriann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedScylla View Post
    Well, that's why they got the tongue sticking out. In *their* opinion, I was wrong. Pleh.



    Well, that's problematic, too, when you've got nearly a dozen narrators. I feel like I need variety, to keep the reader from getting overwhelmed. Odd fucking book gotta cause me problems.
    I missed the little tongue.

    After raising children, I'm just blind to that sort of thing.

    But it gave me an excuse to write about that court clerk whose comment has been bothering me for months.

  12. #14587
    ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine ink wench's Avatar
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    I'm supposed to be staying away to work, but I need to curl up in a corner and cry. I just finished R, my newest WIP over the weekend. And what do I see in PM today? A book with the same title and a similar premise sold at auction (plus bonus film deal).

    FML
    W1cked M1sery (Samhain) - October 2013

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  13. #14588
    optimist Teriann's Avatar
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    Um. Pass one of those things you all drink. I'm about to be sick, or worse, hopeful.

    So I hadn't checked my email for a good 45 seconds (unusual for me) and there were 2 messages from an editor reading. First said, "Teri, I can't get the attachment open. Will you please send the book again?" The next said, "Never mind! My mistake! I got it open."

    Which means right now someone is reading my book.

    Faints from sheer nervousness.

  14. #14589
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    Sigh, Red. It is quite possible that you decide that the agent is wrong about some things and right about others. Only do what makes the story stronger.

    One thing about being published by a small press is that, if things work out, you will be able to climb the publishing ladder more easily. Or, if things really work out and you're happy with the small press, you may want them to publish another title or two.

  15. #14590
    optimist Teriann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink wench View Post
    I'm supposed to be staying away to work, but I need to curl up in a corner and cry. I just finished R, my newest WIP over the weekend. And what do I see in PM today? A book with the same title and a similar premise sold at auction (plus bonus film deal).

    FML
    Oh lord. We were writing at the same time.

    Same title? Wow.
    That sounds really odd.

  16. #14591
    ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine ink wench's Avatar
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    (((Teri))) I'd be freaking too.

    The title isn't exactly original. It's more like the straw breaking the hellhound's back. The book that sold is paranormal. Mine is light SF. But the premises are eerily similar which, combined with the title thing, is making me vomitous.
    W1cked M1sery (Samhain) - October 2013

    An0ther L1ttle P1ece 0f My Heart
    (Harlequin Teen)- December 2013

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  17. #14592
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    (((Tracy))) Oh no. But a title is not that big a deal. The premise may or may not be the similar -- you're almost there, right? Your book could even be out before the other.

    Fingers crossed, Teri.

  18. #14593
    ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine ink wench's Avatar
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    Kellion, I finished the first draft this weekend. I need to give it a read-through then I was planning on sending to some first round betas. (At the moment, I can't spot the plot holes so I'm counting on others). It's far from ready.

    Am wondering if I should email the agent.

    ETA:
    Ack, and I take it back. They're both SF. Even worse.
    W1cked M1sery (Samhain) - October 2013

    An0ther L1ttle P1ece 0f My Heart
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  19. #14594
    practical experience, FTW MrsBrommers's Avatar
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    ((ink))

    I'm feeling very jittery today. Not in a good way, but in a waiting for the other shoe to drop way. On top of that, we found out we have termites.
    A MURDER OF MAGPIES (YA Gothic; coming September 2014 from Month9Books)
    YA Gothic Murder Mystery/Horror: 30/70K
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    Magical realism (off with awesome agent)

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  20. #14595
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink wench View Post
    I'm supposed to be staying away to work, but I need to curl up in a corner and cry. I just finished R, my newest WIP over the weekend. And what do I see in PM today? A book with the same title and a similar premise sold at auction (plus bonus film deal).

    FML
    Oh goddamn. That is exponential suckitude. I don't know about emailing the agent. How much does she know about your WIP?
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


    A Kiss from Krampus: tinyurl.com/kissfromkrampus


    A Kiss from Krampus, now in paperback!! tinyurl.com/krampusamzpprbk

  21. #14596
    ray of motherf#%&ing sunshine ink wench's Avatar
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    Red, she ok'd the premise and read the first couple chapters. I told her originally I hoped to have a draft for her around early spring, and I'm still on target for that.

    (((Mrs. Brommers)))
    W1cked M1sery (Samhain) - October 2013

    An0ther L1ttle P1ece 0f My Heart
    (Harlequin Teen)- December 2013

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  22. #14597
    KoalaKoalaKoala! RedScylla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ink wench View Post
    Red, she ok'd the premise and read the first couple chapters. I told her originally I hoped to have a draft for her around early spring, and I'm still on target for that.
    If you feel panicky, I don't think it would be off base to email and say, "Hey, I wanted to touch base with you about my WIP, because I just saw this deal. I can't help but feel nervous at the surface similarities. Am I over-reacting?"
    ~RedScylla

    Celebrate the holidays with some fine seasonal smut.


    A Kiss from Krampus: tinyurl.com/kissfromkrampus


    A Kiss from Krampus, now in paperback!! tinyurl.com/krampusamzpprbk

  23. #14598
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    (((Ink))) But if it's a hot premise and you have it ready in the next three months, you could still sell it. One of the other houses might want it and put it out before the first title.

  24. #14599
    carpe libri Amarie's Avatar
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    Ink, titles can be changed and the fact that a similar premise book sold is good-it means pubs are interested in that sort of book. Yes, it cuts one house you can sub to, but that's not a big deal. Email your agent-she'll talk you off the ledge.

  25. #14600
    A cat may not look at a king kellion92's Avatar
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    Ink, I read that listing, and it's pretty vague and really emphasizes the romance. Yours could be very, very different. If you didn't have the same title, it wouldn't be an issue.

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