Purgatory's Pit of Doom

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alias octavia

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Afternoon, Pit.

(((Cricket))) That totally sucks.

My 4yo is also allergic to eggs so the rest of us get the flu shot to provide some herd immunity to him. I believe in the flu shot. I've been getting it for 8 years or so. I've had the flu without the shot and also one year that I got the shot. The year I had the shot but still got the flu proved a shorter duration of illness (3 days instead of 1 week +) and I was less severely ill. When I was 7 I got the swine flu and my fever was so high for so long that I had hallucinations (Rainbow Bright was talking to me!), so I'm keen to avoid that sort of business in both myself and my children.

(((Snappy))) I hate those viruses and virus makers. What a time waste! It always happens when you have a million and one things to do too.

ETA: Cricketology sounds awesome. I need something to believe in.
 

Filigree

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I'm the opposite. I've had a flu shot every year for the last eight, because I'm prone to catch every sniffle that comes along. Since I don't have health insurance, I can't afford the risk of something developing into a situation requiring a hospital stay. (In 1997, flu turned to pneumonia, which turned into three exhausting months in hell.) I haven't had a bad case in years, so I'm happy.
 

kellion92

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I've had the flu and the flu shot, never in the same year.

And ARGGGH! I just took a book out of the library (Anna Dr3ssed in B100d) that I've been wanting to read and the ink is dark RED! It hurts my eyes. Why oh why would anyone design a book in this way?
 

Amarie

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Is this a new gimmicky trend? I'm reading a recent MG called The Ap0thecary and some of the pages are in black with white lettering. Really hard to read. I also feel for the author because the cover could have been far, far better. I picked it up because I was curious about the title, given that most 9-12s would have no clue what the word meant. I'm all for teaching kids vocabulary, but within the context of the story. The cover is also very muted compared to the storyline. I'm going to use it in one of my 'Should you judge a book by its cover' talks and I can already predict the kids' reaction to it.
 

kellion92

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My brain thinks the register in a process color is off and wants to interpret it as black. But it's not process color and it is not black.
 

alias octavia

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Maybe they are trying to force us old people to e-readers? (You can make the font big too, geezers!) Mine is only black and white, but I wonder if the new fancy full color screens could show the text in different colors like the print copies do.... Either way, it sounds horrible.
 

kellion92

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Yeah, I know I'm a middle-aged woman reading a YA book, but YA wouldn't be the phenomenon it is if middle-aged women didn't read it. So designers ought to be thinking about those of us (of any age) with poor vision.
 

Snappy

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And this is why I'm fearful of moving to a color e-reader.
 

Cricket18

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My question is--what's in the flu shot/spray that makes me sick as a dog? Because one year I got the flu shot, was violently ill for about a week. Next year, felt skittish, got the spray. Was violently ill for about a week. Like vomiting, hives, death-dealing exhaustion. I'm not allergic to eggs. What gives?

According to the doc, he said the flu virus that goes into your body is a dead virus, not a live one, so the myth that you get the flu after is just that. If you're getting sick, Red, it doesn't sound like coincidence, though, so who knows?

The doc explained it to me, but I was dead tired at the time (and stressed), so how a dead virus can keep you from getting the flu is beyond me.

*paging Dr. Haupe*
 

alias octavia

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I believe there is a mercury based preservative used in the flu shot and other vaccines. Maybe you are sensitive to it. They do offer a preservative free option (I got it when I was pregnant, just because it seemed safer).

Okay, this is the pit, so I know this is where I can say something that, at first glance, might seem rather unforgiving. But, here goes: I was on Goodreads and stumbled across a list of debut authors and books for YA/MG. I like reading book blurbs, I feel like it sharpens my pitch skills and it is interesting to see what is selling. Can I just say that I was underwhelmed by many of the offerings? As in, they read so damn generic that I wasn't sure what the story was about at all. This wasn't all the books, but quite a few. It boggles my mind how these books got agents and deals with such boring sounding plot summaries. This honestly isn't sour grapes, I'm just puzzled by the whole thing.
 

kellion92

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I never have trouble finding books I want to read (at the library at least -- at a bookstore, where I also consider if I want to pay for them) but descriptions for books in popular genres do seem to run together.
 

ink wench

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Octavia, I agree. Which is why, as a YA writer, I sometimes just want to scream when I read the deals on PM. There are far too many books that sound far too similar. And hence, boring.
 

Teriann

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Octavia, I agree. Which is why, as a YA writer, I sometimes just want to scream when I read the deals on PM. There are far too many books that sound far too similar. And hence, boring.

It's the "me, too" phenomena. I think I understand how it happens. When I was 13 and read Gone with the Wind, I fell in love. I went to the school librarian and I said, "I want another book like Gone with the Wind." Anything she gave me paled in comparison. Of course, now I understand it. There just isn't anything else quite like Gone with the Wind. Readers were saying, "We want more books like Gone with the Wind!" Hence, the historical romance genre was born and hundreds of books were published telling sweeping romances against a turbulent and complex period in history. What were they all? Pale in comparison.

(Well, there were a few others that were vivid and awesome, like Forever Amber, but for obvious reasons my school librarian didn't offer me that one. It was-- ah hem-- actually banned in Boston.)

After reading every HP book, kids were saying, "More! I want more books with wizards!"

And along come all the wizard me too books. They're published because they're riding the wave of demand, not necessarily because they are good. I remember the first wave of wizard me too books and they were horrible.

Then after lots of drivel gets published, there's a temporary saturation and the entire genre is declared dead and people with good stuff can't get published.

(the world of publishing according to Teriann)
 
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Roly

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No, that's precisely what it is Teri. I think marketing as well tends to homogenize books even if they aren't necessarily that similar in order to play to a particular audience or keep their books in line with a particular trend. But ultimately, I think that publishing (or rather big publishers) narrow the scope of what can be published by adhering to the assembly line process - acquire books with X, Y, and Z elements. It goes far beyond simply genre. Often books are acquired because they have specific elements that are familiar to those found in the Big Books that Sold Colossally Well - ie) the kind of protagonists that star in the books, the kind of voice and POV in the books, the relationship the protagonist has with his/her love interest(s), the characterization of the love interest(s), the plot structure, the threat, the kind of supernatural/non-normal elements in the book etc. It's not just dystopian books being sold, for example, but certain KINDS of dystopians with certain KINDS of sensibilities and characters and interactions. Because of that, looking at publisher's marketplace, or at goodreads (particularly at the books being distributed by Big 6-ers) can feel like looking at one of those mirrors where you see yourself seeing yourself seeing yourself ad infinitum.

It's maddening as a writer, and as a reader because of course I'm looking for stuff that I HAVEN'T read before and they're hard to find. But it does leave an opening for other kinds of publishers who aren't chained to a kind of All or Nothing publishing structure where their hope is to sell big or go home (which means selling something that they think will do well because it's like other stuff that has done well). And people that are a little tired of the same old same old can hopefully go there to find something new and interesting.

I dunno. I think I've come to terms with publishing being that way, as well as with the fact that I might never catch the upswing or start a trend myself. I can't bring myself to write in a trend for the sake of publishing. Not yet anyway. I mean wtf do I know about mystery? Thrillers or dystopia? Nope. I barely read in the genres, so for me to suddenly write my ridiculous 'What If' scenario to try and get some cash...I mean I can understand why people do it but I don't even think I'd be able to. The only way I can write a good story is if I believe in the story I'm writing and I'm having fun writing it. And I think first and foremost people should concentrate on writing a good story.

I've also finally let go of the unspoken expectation in YA that one must publish big their first go around. I do think in YA especially there's that expectation - because it's happened before, we all want to write that debut that's going to be huge and hyped and widely distributed and become if not the next big thing then a Best Seller. Hell, now and days if you're a YA author and your book ISN'T optioned for film you'll feel like a failure, or at least a second-class citizen in YA-Writer world. That's part of what drives people, I think, to write what they think is 'in' or to catch a certain trend. But there's no shame in writing something different even if it means you have to self-publish it first or publish with a small press. People now and days are thinking of instant gratification, EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, when perhaps it's better to think long-term - how do you want your writing career to be? It's alright if it starts out small. And if you want to go big right away, what kinds of concessions are you willing to make to ensure that happens?

Sorry I'm rambling again....
 
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kellion92

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Good post, Roly. I think you will find most of us in the Pit agreeing with you -- the small-press/self-pub route is a strategy many of us know.

I really like this part of your post:

And if you want to go big right away, what kinds of concessions are you willing to make to ensure that happens?

Most of us are chasing publication -- we are TRYING to be commercial. But we're also willing to go only so far -- the stories we're telling are different enough to be interesting to us, and that has limited our commercial potential.

Of course, if I was a flat-out genius, I'd still be selling my books. But in the meantime, I'm willing to start small because I'm not sure that large will ever be available to me.
 

Catwoman

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The only thing I know about St3ph@n1e M3y3r is that she dreamed the idea for Tw1l1ght, and that her only expectation for its success was to pay off her car.

What happened with her? Did a publisher just decide to take a chance on her? Even tho nothing was going on with vampires at the time? From what I hear, it's not spectacularly written, so why did everyone gamble with her?
 

Teriann

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Good post, Roly. I think you will find most of us in the Pit agreeing with you -- the small-press/self-pub route is a strategy many of us know.

I really like this part of your post:



Most of us are chasing publication -- we are TRYING to be commercial. But we're also willing to go only so far -- the stories we're telling are different enough to be interesting to us, and that has limited our commercial potential.

Of course, if I was a flat-out genius, I'd still be selling my books. But in the meantime, I'm willing to start small because I'm not sure that large will ever be available to me.

All right. Here it comes. Another variation of the Teriann's anti-A theory.

I think the agent model causes lots of people to give up on big publishing too soon, after two few passes. Assuming here that we all agree that $ = good, so larger commercial pubs offer a distinct advantage.

My 1993 agent submitted a book to 18 publishers before she gave up. My 1996 agent submitted a book to approximately the same number before she gave up.

My 2005 agent (S@r@ Cr0we) submitted to 5 publishers before she gave up. Crazy Dame was willing to submit to 10, but it was clear if those 10 passed, I'd have to wait a very long time until she got around to another submission. I'd say I'd be lucky to get 18 subs out of her in a year. Let's not even talk about my last agent and submissions.

Then of course, most people without agents go directly to small pubs.

Given how many editors have told me some variation of "middle-grade historical fiction just isn't big right now, so we can't consider your book," I'm certain most agents would have packed it in right now. But I'm pressing on. We'll see.
 

Leigh.Lyons

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The only thing I know about St3ph@n1e M3y3r is that she dreamed the idea for Tw1l1ght, and that her only expectation for its success was to pay off her car.

What happened with her? Did a publisher just decide to take a chance on her? Even tho nothing was going on with vampires at the time? From what I hear, it's not spectacularly written, so why did everyone gamble with her?
I finished Tw!l!ght even though it took trying to read the damned thing 4 times and settling for "totally legally" downloading the audiobooks and just listening to it and i came to the conclusion that the reason why the book is so popular is because of voodoo.
Kidding, kidding, totally kidding (kind of) the reason why it's so popular is because it's a modern day princess story. Regular Pretty Girl Every Teen catches the fancy of the handsome prince and they live happily ever after (no literally. that's how f*cking book 4 ends). The fact that it's written like a middle school book report is irrelevant.
 

Cricket18

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Octavia, I agree. Which is why, as a YA writer, I sometimes just want to scream when I read the deals on PM. There are far too many books that sound far too similar. And hence, boring.

This. I keep reading the same blurb over and over but for different books. Groundhog Day in publishing. Grrrr.....

And thus, why not my crap?
 
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