Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Great points, 4B & Red.

And, Red, I don't know if real estate agents are more involved where you live than here, but a real estate agent here is merely a conduit.

She shows us a couple of houses and we (the homebuyer) make a bid which she conveys. After that, all the negotiations are done by real estate lawyers. So the real estate agent is purely a middleperson. I would hope that a literary agent is much more than that.

And, Red, you hit it exactly on the head the downside of such an agent (which, unfortunately, you experienced first hand). Agents don't know what sells, even the best of them. They can hope. So if they just send out your book as is and then no pub picks it up, what happens now?

Plus, I can see the editorial horror stories. But at least you want the agent to help you put the best book forward and get the best deal.

The thing is, the problem with an agent's only worth being "knowing the ropes and having connections" is what happens when the author learns the ropes and, because of her books, gets connections? Once the author finds a pub house she has a connection to an editor. That makes the agent superfluous.

Oh, we're rinky-dink out here, Steve. Nobody hires a real estate lawyer. The agent covers all that. But I have to say: I wouldn't have wanted any editorial feedback from my agent. My beta readers are far more adept at that sort of thing. When I did an R&R for one editor, his suggestions were way off base. He just wasn't editor material. As far as getting out there and busting his ass talking to editors about the book, I couldn't have done better.

LOL, Red, no wonder you didn't find anything wrong with me likening a real estate agent with a literary agent. That's cool, though, because it saves you guys money.

Here, everyone has to get a lawyer and we factor it into the cost of buying the house and the seller includes it in the selling price. Plus, with all the shady real estate dealings the attorney's legal malpractice insurance acts as a good safety net. A real estate agent doesn't do crap except finding houses to look at.

And I hear you on the editorial side. There is a certain trust with betas. And some agents aren't cut out for the editorial side. Personally, if I had an agent who was strictly a broker I'd probably dump her after I made my own connections.

Speaking of agents, over the past three days I've worked feverishly trying to identify more of them to submit to, and I'll tell you what, some of them really shouldn't be calling themselves agents. I couldn't believe the number of typos in one agency's website. I kept wondering how it functioned when it can't grasp basic grammar skills. Needless to say, I completely avoided that one. But I did manage to submit queries to 24 new places. Received a form R from one of them in less than an hour. Now that's what I call efficiency!

{{{{{{{{{{{4B's}}}}}}}}}}}} Endings can be b@stards.

Thanks Steve. I totally agree with you. I just don't get that agent's R. I really don't. How hard is it to send an R and R? But like you, Ink and Kellion said - that agent only wants something ready to ship. Not willing to put time and effort into a potential client. Which leaves a bad BAD taste in my mouth because my ex was the exact same way.

Good point, 4B's. I'm going with either column 1 on that. Maybe it's column 3 but a message that basically says 'I like this and think it'll sell but I'm not willing to put any work into it' is totally NOT an uplifting comment and I hope even the densest of agents could see that.

'I would hope that a literary agent is much more than that.' <- THIS

I think my problem is I want an agent who will be a partner. Who will work WITH me. And obviously that agent wants to only be a conduit...seems more and more are like this these days.

Steve, maybe authors getting connections on their own and not needing an agent is a GOOD thing. I've heard from a few authors who are doing very well and swear by NOT having an agent.

Here the real estate agent negotiates the price between the buyer and seller as they haggle back and forth, but then we need a lawyer.

There was a similar discussion in Purgatory about this. So, yes, if we want an advocate or fiduciary then we should get a lawyer. But agents should be much more than middlepeople/brokers.

I like the partner/collaborator idea, Soul. This is a creative process afterall. I would like substantive imput from an agent.

What's worse about the agent as merely a conduit is that even though that agent may "know" people that still doesn't mean she can get a deal done.

That would be like hiring a real estate agent and she looks at houses that might not even be up for sale.

A conduit's worth is only in "who" she knows, but since there is no guarantee, it can end up being worthless. At least we should be able to rely on an agent for "what" she knows.

What's worse about the agent as merely a conduit is that even though that agent may "know" people that still doesn't mean she can get a deal done.

This one, Steve. My agent has made more sales to Ken......ton Books than anybody I know in the business, and for over a solid decade. Leading me to believe that she MUST have had an A+ rep there, with most everyone or those in charge. I had a glimmer of hope when my manuscript passed over those desks, only to find that it wasn't quite what they wanted.

No for sure things here, even with a great agent and pristine track record.

Tri

Well said Steve and Tri. Well said...

I think it is hard for me on this side of things, never having an agent or been on sub, to know what I want and need. Theoretically I want someone to work with me. Someone with connections to place my book in the best place. An agent that will help me develop a career.

I suspect it is like other things in life though, you don't know what you need until you are in the thick of it or looking back over a mistake. Sort of like getting married. I lucked out with my hubby, but these should have been my questions to a potential spouse:

Do you like to cook? (someone needs to)
How much did you weigh when you were born (over 8lbs need not apply as THAT is not coming out of my body)
How do you fight? (passive aggressive stuff gets old)

Instead I was all like "what is your favorite book?" and "what country would you most like to visit?" Interesting stuff, but not relevant when we are in the thick of living and raising kids. I got the right person for me, but I suspect that was lucky.

Excellent analogy Octavia. IMO The writer/agent relationship is about their connections with editors but a HUGE chunk is how they click with the writer...similarly to how people connect to spouses (I lucked out with my hubby too). And like you said, it's hard to know what you'd like until you were in the thick of something. I think one of the most important things is finding someone who is willing to work at striking that balance between what works for them and you.

Hello Pitizens. You don't know me but I've been reading this thread since last September and it more or less saved my sanity.

More or less because I think I have a drinking problem now...

I wanted to tell my agent story here not because I think it'll help and cheerleading is against the rules so for gawdsake don't set the hounds on me.

After a hellish small publisher experience, I knew I wouldn't publish again until I had an agent. But this time I was bitter and pissed and not taking any prisoners. I found 4 in the UK that were snail mail only and specifically stated they were looking for what I had. I mailed off partials - 30 pages, a synopsis and a cover letter. F*ck query letters, I said. I don't write sales copy. I'm an f*cking writer.

My specific wants were an agent that sells my genre, likes how I write and has enough editorial sense to rebalance my work if needed.


I got a letter via snail mail requesting the full 8 weeks later. Sent full. The other 3 were passes. I waited 8 weeks for agency to get back to me, blew a gasket and queried 4 more agents this time via email. Same package. No query letter. UK agents are more interested in pages. Three agents asked for fulls, one exclusively. In the end, the agent I signed with was faster, more enthusiastic and had all of the qualities I wanted.


The moral of my story is I always have to get pissed off before I get what I want. I didn't want lies, manipulation or poor communication. Now if that isn't a Pit-worthy statement I don't know what is.


MercyMe. Lowering the bar for publishing professionals everywhere since 2004.

*CLICKING!!*

Hell, agents are a dime a dozen--but Pit membership? That's gold, baby. I'm hanging this one on my wall.

Vandal said:

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Oh no, Vandal, your link appears to be broken!!

ink wench said:

(((4Bs))) Sorry to see you down here. I hate endings too. Definitely the hardest part to write, imo.

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I like the wrap up ending, myself.

*Things happen in an explosion of shrapmetal and body parts*
*chapter ends*
*New chapter begins with the narrator saying, "yup, everyone who needed to totes lived. The Fucking End."*

You know what we need down here? A railroad. Nothing fancy. Maybe just a little monorail. Just enough to crush my head on the tracks.

Leigh, I like endings like that too. I like them short -- I hate to read 50 pages after the climax.

(((Red))) I'm feeling it too. Blech. Yuck. Gah. Argh.

MercyMe said:

*CLICKING!!*

Hell, agents are a dime a dozen--but Pit membership? That's gold, baby. I'm hanging this one on my wall.

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LOL!!!!!!!!

{{Kellion}} {{Red}}

I can't help it. Now I'm seeing Red's avatar's big green head on the track of a monorail.

RedScylla said:

You know what we need down here? A railroad. Nothing fancy. Maybe just a little monorail. Just enough to crush my head on the tracks.

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Vandal said:

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Cattrain?

Yikes, (((Red))) (((Kellion)))

I like endings a little vague, enough details to feel satisfied but some mystery so I can imagine how the characters might end up later on.

Mercy Me, your story almost warms my cold, dead pit heart.

'I like endings a little vague, enough details to feel satisfied but some mystery so I can imagine how the characters might end up later on.' <- ME TOO!

alias octavia said:

I like endings a little vague, enough details to feel satisfied but some mystery so I can imagine how the characters might end up later on.

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I like that too, to a point. I like having enough details that I'm fairly certain I know what will happen.