Purgatory's Pit of Doom

Other Lisa said:

Some Pit-Worthy advice...

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Remember our I Will Not Read Your Fscking Script thread? It came with the Harlan Ellison dance party mix. I can't post the one by the Pirates Of The Caribbean writer demanding you "Throw In The Towel" because he threatened to sue AW and have Ms. Stone arrested. Yeah, he's a real asshole, but his article of the same name was in the same spirit.

INK lol!

Madder EXACTLY. I don't think the e readers will replace books. The computer didn't replace TV even though I watch some shows on the pc. Instant messaging didn't replace the phone. This is just another medium I'm thinking

Snappy-ooh free nook(

ACK Lisa, but oddly rang some bells of truth :s

Don't toss anything at me for bring jokes into the pit, but for anyone who has been hesitant to get an ereader (or heck, who has one already) read this http://smellofbooks.com/

Has anyone seen this? http://janeyolen.com/rant/

And it comes in a crunchy bacon scent!!! Even my real books don't smell like bacon...

soulcascade said:

Don't toss anything at me for bring jokes into the pit, but for anyone who has been hesitant to get an ereader (or heck, who has one already) read this http://smellofbooks.com/

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Excellent! Problem solved.

soulcascade said:

Has anyone seen this? http://janeyolen.com/rant/

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Because that's what our society values = Snooki. Scary isn't it?

YES! yes it is, Snappy. Absolutely ridiculous. I'll admit to loving trash tv, which is how I view J3rs3y Sh@re, but for J. Y@len to get bumped? COME. ON!

That rant was very ranty. But I think the whole issue is misplaced. That's an entertainment show, not news, and they include entertainers as guests because they are in the business of attracting viewers and advertisers. The winners of the major awards this year were very obscure, and Snooki is much more famous and undoubtedly has sold more books.

I hate it when people complain that other people should know who they are and care about and understand what they do, and writers are as bad at this as many other industries.

Kellion I was just surprised such a high-profile writer placed such a public rant out there. Call me naive, but that seemed 'risky' (not the right word but hopefully you get what I mean) to do.

I guess she's pretty bullet-proof -- she has little to lose among librarians or parents.

kellion92 said:

and Snooki is much more famous and undoubtedly has sold more books.

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:opping in:: Actually...
:opping out::

Wendy, I'm not surprised it's not a huge hit. I don't entirely believe sales numbers that are released to embarrass people, and odds are still good that she sold more in her first week than M00n Over Man1fest did. Will she be more profitable and earn out? Well, no. Absolutely not -- it was not a good business decision on the part of whoever acquired it. Deals like that usually seem to be losers.

But that's not relevant! Morning TV cares about ratings. Snooki went on the show to promote her book and herself, but the show doesn't care if she sells her book or not. News entertainment programs just want their own viewers.

ETA: What if Snooki showed up in the Pit, venting about how her book had dropped with a thud and she'd never earn out her advance and there's no way they'd pick up her next WIP anyway? That would certainly make the Pit more Pit-ish.

I'd say it was more of a snipe than a rant, but it'll do. Rants take pages, maybe whole books.
And kellion, you never know who's watching. I was reading the Esquire George Clooney interview where he was going onto online boards looking for people making fun of him, questioning his sexuality etc and joining in the discussion. He's definitely OK.
Well, anyway, hope Ms. Polizzi didn't spend all the money yet.

kellion92 said:

ETA: What if Snooki showed up in the Pit, venting about how her book had dropped with a thud and she'd never earn out her advance and there's no way they'd pick up her next WIP anyway? That would certainly make the Pit more Pit-ish.

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Remember the next level down that Red was digging / creating? I'd go there. Cricket and Snooki in the Pit would be a bad combo.

True fact: I had no clue Snooki's last night was P0l!zz!. Actually, I wouldn't know her if she bumped into me on the street.

And kellion, you never know who's watching.

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I'm getting more confused about what's being "negative" and what's being "brave and outspoken." So it's cool for agents, authors, and editors to rant about a TV show, mock an author, and giggle over her failure, but NOT appropriate for me to say that the TV show has its own business to run based on what their audience wants, just like the publishing folks are always saying they do?

Kellion, I think Mario was just suggesting that it's not totally impossible for Snooki to show up in the Pit one day because you never know with the internet who's out there.

I'd heard that Snooki's book was tanking, but that still doesn't mean the publisher won't come out ahead monetarily. Bottom line is books are about entertainment. TV is about entertainment. And entertainment is about making money. All any writer is doing is the same thing Snooki is doing - peddling a product, be it a story or herself.

I mentioned this in purgatory (where I think I'm about to be banned for my negativity), but I'm suffering from PASD - post-agent stress disorder. I think it took a while to set it, but it explains why I feel like everything I do sucks these days.

OK, thanks for the clarification, Ink. You're right.

When some writers complained about the Snooki deal in the first place, the Powers That Shush said the publisher knew what they were doing, publishing is a business, and celebrity deals pay the bills. So it's hypocritical of others in publishing to get their noses out of joint against TV for promoting that same book instead of their own. It does none of us any good to root for a failure that makes future deals less likely.

I will be on the PASD train as soon as I start querying, Ink. Save a seat. Here's a maggotini while you wait.

LOL Wendy, love the random popping in and out

Kellion if Sn@@ki showed up ranting about that tripe after the $$ she raked in off of that book deal (not to mention the show she's on) I'd have no qualms about tossing her ass out. Could you IMAGINE someone lamenting about that here? AFTER getting god-knows-how much for her crappy book and laughing all the way to the bank when lots of us can't even get agents to glance in our general direction?? Sure her book deal tanking sucks, but does it suck as much as what we're going through? I don't think so


Lol Mario Cl@@ney needs to get a life!

{{Ink}} PASD sucks


"Powers That Shush" <- tee hee

"Aspiring novelists of the world, take note -- have reality show, will get book deal."

Mornin', Pit

Great discussion here. Kell, LOL @ "the Powers That Shush." It's so true. They say the publishers know what they're doing, knows what sells, etc. but the bottom line is that don't. If those in publishing did know, the pub houses wouldn't be laying off so many editors or having to close down and Boarders wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy.

Only now are they starting to understand the new publishing model. But LOL, they still don't know yet how to set up a profit system with epublishing. The music industry finally figured it out. They had to lose Tower Records, Virgin Megastore, etc., but online music once thought to be the death of the industry has saved it.

What's going to be a pub hit is anyone's guess. I remember N@than Br@nsf0rd writing once saying that the dirty little secret in publishing is that no one in the industry knows what's going to sell. They can guess, but they never know. Snooki book is prime example.

Reducing costs of pubbing, streamlining the process so from deal-to-pub doesn' take so long, and high volumn writers is the future. That's how everyone makes money with epubbing in the age of ereaders and tablets.

Excellent points Steve

I think one of the worst business practices publishers engage in is handing out those huge book deals to *one* author. It’s like putting all of their eggs in one basket and that just seems like poor business sense to me. Why not sign several books with smaller advances? That way if the book they thought would do great doesn’t pan out like they’d hoped a) they wouldn’t have to take as much of a loss (regarding the $$ they shell out on the book deal itself) and b) perhaps the next book that they didn’t think would do quite so well will. Predicting what people want to read is impossible because people don’t necessarily ‘know’ what they will want to read in the future, and tastes change.

I shudder to think of the great manuscripts that I may have LOVED reading but didn’t get to because publishers are trying to guess what I want to read and wouldn’t take a chance / shelled out too much on one writer’s book deal and didn’t want to take on another writer or two.

And I hate when these celebrities get book deals and publishers assume the book will sell amazingly. What people want to watch on TV and what they want to read can be two different things. I’ll admit to enjoying trash TV. Hell, I’ll even admit to enjoying watching J3rs3y Sh@re *dodges shoe* Sometimes it’s nice to come home, flick on the TV and turn my brain off.

But reading a book requires a little more effort and investment than letting the TV watch me. We have Sn@@ki’s book at the library and I won’t even borrow it so I can read it for free. Why would I waste my time? I can get just as much satisfaction from watching the show (and apparantly the book is pretty much the show but on paper) with far less effort.

And after watching interviews with her, I’m kind of insulted she even has a book deal, honestly. Like, she said her friends are surprised ‘cause they didn’t even know she read. But ‘she’ll go into a book store get a coffee and fricking read’ or whatever she said. Seriously??

I can’t fault publishers for not being able to tell the future. But I DO fault them for not addressing their shoddy business model and trying to fix it. Seriously, It’s. Not. Working. How much more of a wakeup call do they need?

Steve, Kell, Soul, great points! I have nothing brilliant to add, but I just want to say...

Snooki with a book deal??? AND bumping off a respectable author from promoting a book??? COME ON!

Steve and Soul, you make good points. I'm not that sure publishing is broken in general, although general celebrity culture is certainly debased.

My point is much simpler: When people in the publishing industry give Snooki a book deal, they shouldn't blame a TV show for treating her like an author. If they want to get snippy about it, they should be criticizing the people in their own industry who made the decision to put her name on a book.

kellion92 said:

Steve and Soul, you make good points. I'm not that sure publishing is broken in general, although general celebrity culture is certainly debased.

My point is much simpler: When people in the publishing industry give Snooki a book deal, they shouldn't blame a TV show for treating her like an author. If they want to get snippy about it, they should be criticizing the people in their own industry who made the decision to put her name on a book.

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<--- THIS!