Respecting The Fellow Author

Cranky said:

Seriously, girls, I'm not hitting on you. I promise.

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What does it mean if I'm just the tiniest bit hollowed-out by disappointment?

But you're not going to show us where that was ever asserted?

brainstorm77 said:

Did you not read my last post?

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I did! But no one in that thread was talking about the way they looked! I read it. This is maddening, although now you say you're gone.

When you accuse someone, singularly or collectively, of saying something on a message board, it's a very simple matter of linking to the post(s) in question to shut up your detractors.

I just found out what some of the problem is, Mac, and I'll ask everyone to take a deep breath, because it is so blown out of proportion it'll make a pufferfish jealous.

brainstorm77 has been in PM contact with me, and leveled some accusations that were based on a benign misunderstanding. I don't know if that's what set her off, but it seems from the tone of her PMs that it certaintly contributed. I think we have it all ironed out now.

Some pages back, in response to one of brainstorm's posts, I made the comment that I don't use the LOL kitties. I was referring to a long-standing "custom" from over in OP of what others have called "teh kittehs" or something like that. When a thread gets long in tooth, to where the opinions and disagreements are just rehashes of what has been said over and over again, people start posting pictures of kitties with dialogue captions that are in phonetic english. That is the tradition of what I call LOL kitties or what others call "teh kittehs" or whatever.

Evidently, brainstorm though I was digging back through her old posts and aiming at one where she mentioned a kitty and LOL. If you go back through this thread, you can find the place and see that she was greatly offended by my comment. About that time, I went out to play in the front yard with my kids.

When I returned, I saw the comments in this thread, but also brainstorm did what is appropriate--she contacted me via PM. I was totally blindsided by the accusations, because my comment had nothing to do with her in any way. In any event, I think it has been straightened out between us.

And for the record to all here. I don't have the time to dig back through anyone's posts for any reason. I don't even have the time to dig back and find any of the many threads that end in the LOL kitties thing (perhaps someone can help me out here and give an example or two to show those who are still worked up). I also have no interest in digging back through anyone's old posts. To me, that's cyber-stalker stuff, which I can't be bothered with. Another note--I am also not a mod, so I don't have any more clout around here than anyone else, newbies included.

Everyone breathing well again. As far as I'm concerned, brainstorm and I had a disagreement here based on a misunderstanding. That stays in this thread. We both have the right to disagree with each other in other threads, but I think we can both understand, now, that it's not personal. Comments in a thread don't extend beyond that thread unless a poster specifically makes them do so, and that wasn't the case in this situation.

Are we all okay now?

brainstorm, I'm typing this through gritted teeth (yeah, it's possible...)

You've said you're not going to post in this thread again. You did. You've said people have personally insulted authors. You haven't given proof or links, merely asked, "Didn't you read the OP/my last post?"

Well yes. We all have. We still don't get it. We don't understand what your gripe is. Please explain it.

It's not the reader's problem if the writer doesn't explain him/herself properly. The onus is on the writer to explain clearly.

If no-one gets exactly what it is you're trying to say, then what does that tell you?

In my attempt to help the situation.

I too had a nice PM back and forth with brainstorm and her point is very simple: we shouldn't judge authors by their looks.

The rest of us posting in this thread agree.

Then came the issue of who was saying that you should judge an author by their looks. We wanted evidence of that here on AW. brainstorm said it was in the SM/SK thread (mentioning it a little late into the thread, but still answering the question). Then people wanted specific posts which she never shared. I have since taken it upon myself to go through that thread.

I have drawn some conclusions after doing so.

Brainstorm is right. There are two posts which comment on the physical attributes of the authors. One is here. The other is here.

Personally I find the first one just funny as it seems to reflect that the author tends to look like their subject matter, much like people accuse dog owners of looking like their dogs. Or vice versa.

The second to me appeared to be an observation on fame and how the second someone who might not be perfect looking gets it, they suddenly get more good looking. I have noticed often that pop stars (like Hillary Duff for example) who are lovely and well proportioned, seem to get skinnier and skinnier as their fame increases. Women you admired because they weren't falling prey to the "have to be skinny to be famous" problem, lose pounds before our very eyes. It always makes me personally depressed. In this instance someone notes that it looks like SM has lost weight and also adds that they noticed the same with Phillipa Boyens. You get famous, you get skinny.

While personally I don't see either of these as personal attacks on SM (no one said, "God she's so ugly" or something) I do understand how brainstorm can find that frustrating. Appearance has nothing to do with writing, why even bring it up?

However I will also add that no one engaged in those two remarks (except now for me here), and so it seems to me that the rest of the people in the thread agreed with brainstorm that it seems inappropriate.

So we actually all are in agreement.

What went wrong with this thread? With brainstorm not sharing specifics, people got frustrated. They demonstrated that frustration in their respective ways, which can come across to some as a little abrasive. Since most people couldn't understand why brainstorm was so upset, they were on the "other side" and I can understand too how she could feel ganged up on. NOT that she actually was. I am not suggesting in the least that anyone intentionally sought to gang up on her. That combined with the kitty misunderstanding, means emotions got heightened and things got a bit out of control.

In actuality, we all agree. One or two posters might have been a tad inappropriate, but for the most part I think the idea that that means people here at AW judge authors based on looks is a faulty conclusion.

Anyway. Thus concludes my detective work. I think this is merely a matter of things getting a little out of control due to poor communication. I think actually, oddly, we're all on the same "side".

If appearance has nothing to do with writing, why do authors have their photos in their books? Why did you, Toothpaste, do a recent photo shoot? Why do any authors let their readers know what they look like?

The simple fact is, people get curious about what their favourite authors look like. While I'm against this age of reality television and making every aspect of our lives public, a little natural curiosity is...well, natural.

If you put anything of yourself in the public domain, whether it be writing or a photograph of yourself, you have to be prepared for people to comment. Positively or negatively.

No-one's saying that looks affect your writing ability but - and I use this as an example, not to get at you in ANY way; let's assume someone gave you a negative comment on your recent photo shoot? Would that be okay?

I'm guessing not. I'm guessing you'd feel insulted, even hurt.

But then...I also guess you'd feel flattered if someone complimented your appearance. (Deservedly so in my opinion; I think you looked great).

So why is it okay to collect positive comments, but complain about the negative ones?

You know, I've had compliments about my physical appearance on this site which are all very flattering. Makes me wonder why no-one says such things in real life. Perhaps I scare folks!

But by the same token if someone repped or PM'd me to say, "Stop it with the personal avatars; you're an ugly bitch!" I'd be hurt, but I'd think, "Well, I have to suck it up. Can't take the praise if I'm not willing to take the insults too."

Hey Toothpaste! Wanna be my press agent when the time comes? You could add one more to your hyphenate list of things-you-do.

SP - I was merely attempting to address what the issue was. I decided to go through the thread in question to find what was upsetting the OP. I did.

I also said I wasn't offended by the remarks myself.

I also said that everyone has said to her in this thread, yourself included, that you shouldn't judge an author based on their looks.

Does this mean that it doesn't matter? Of course not. People still DO judge authors based on their appearance, but I personally think that is silly. Now that might sound absurd coming from someone who recently did a photoshoot, but it's how I feel. I did a photoshoot because I know it matters, and that that is a way for me to get my name out there. If I had other means to get my name out there, if newspapers actually you know, reviewed books, I'd rather have that to be honest. I did the photoshoot because I wanted the PR.

We can turn this thread into an interesting discussion of why looks unfortunately do matter in writing, but the fact was that the SM/SK thread had NOTHING to do with looks. What's more it seems to me everyone, including yourself, AGREED to that because those two points in those posts were totally ignored by everyone else. It was a thread about whether SK has the right to say such things about SM, and then also, was he correct in his assertion. Had SK said, "SM is a terrible writer but beautiful" then looks would have been on the table to discuss.

At any rate, I was hoping my post would clear things up. I'm sorry it didn't.

No, no, it did. I understood. I was just commenting, that's all. No offence or nitpickery intended.

I love it when threads get heated but...dare I say it...those damn mods locking the threads! What's wrong with a good big dogpile now 'n' again???

Mac: You'll note, I'm not posting photos yet...

*notices Scarlet posted the word d@mn/locks Manprawn thread*

Rolling Thunder said:

*notices Scarlet posted the word d@mn/locks Manprawn thread*

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HEY!!! Don't lock my thread because Scarlet's being...well...Scarlet.

Please don't lock up the manprawn. *sniffle* I need my mancandy. *lower lip trembling*

Rolling Thunder said:

*notices Scarlet posted the word d@mn/locks Manprawn thread*

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Pfft. I can't post there for a week anyway. I accepted Mac's challenge.

Well it was more like, "SP. Shut the fuck up about Shannon Leto, wouldja?"

scarletpeaches said:

Pfft. I can't post there for a week anyway. I accepted Mac's challenge.

Well it was more like, "SP. Shut the fuck up about Shannon Leto, wouldja?"

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So help me, if you cause that thread to be closed...*waves fists menacingly*

I will be forced to start a thread devoted ENTIRELY to Shannon.

I saw the comment that Toothpaste provided the link for about Meyers and gastric bypass surgery and didn't bother to comment because honestly, I don't care.

And should the day come I get to have my photo on the cover of a best selling novel,

I'm having a face lift and any other kind of lift I can have. YES! I'm THAT vain.

Jeff Lindsay, author of Dexter, America's Favorite Serial Killer.

Don't judge him by his looks.
Judge him by his excessive dialogue tags, I said.

You know, it's really hard for me to be the center of attention when these threads move so darn fast.

Paris Hilton's the new James Joyce? What? Are teh kittehs writingz nao?

And since this thread seems unable to die a natural death, its time for a little intervention kitteh style.