Now you can beat your wife !!

Why do some people get so outta whack?

Because it suits there own selfish desires. And probably a lack of empathy for anyone.

John Paton said:

I live in Melbourne Australia and this story has surfaced.

A local Islamic cleric has told his male followers



he also went on to say



http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,24945543-661,00.html

It is so unfortunate we have to put up with "religious" leaders of this ilk. I say ship him off overseas. Any takers ??

But the Prophet Mohammed says



Why do some people get so outta whack ??

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I was also outraged at this story, John. These comments are from someone who has distorted a message from their Holy Book. They were not supported and Kevin Rudd, the Prime Minister, was horrified. Comments and people like him remind us that violence towards women must be passionately and vehemently stopped. Perhaps his own ego is the driving force here. God bless his wife!

As to why some people get so out of WHACK ? Well, I don't know, perhaps it is so that those who know better, vigilantly do better.

A MELBOURNE Islamic cleric has told his male followers they can force their wives to have sex and hit them if they are disobedient.

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Non-muslims have been following this practice for centuries. Many still do, even in societies in which either act might be considered unlawful.

Cheers,
Rob

Spot on Rob. The talk he was giving was to a large group of young men. It is not a specific cultural issue but a universal social issue.

The phrase "do not use a stick larger than your thumb" suddenly came to me.

Good old Google.

http://books.google.com/books?id=tw...&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result

"If I demand sex and my wife says no, how is that rape?"

Le sigh. What a sad little man.

taking a baseball bat to abusers works for me.

A lot of men (wrongfully) think that if a man forces sex with his spouse, it's not rape because they're married.

I've heard chauvinists and misogynists use this argument. Rape is the act of strangers, muggers and blind dates. Husbands are incapable of rape. Just rightful dominance.

*shudder*

Some religions... including Catholicism teach that the woman's body belongs to the man after marriage. They temper it by also saying that a man's body belongs to the woman. But the first door can certainly lead to problems.

(I know because I heard this stuff during my marriage prep.)

We can point fingers and be all aghast, but here in the US, I don't think a husband was successfully prosecuted for raping his wife until the '70's.

We made the leap, but not all that long ago, this was a pretty mainstream belief, not simply the province of mysogynists and fringe folks.

It's certainly not just Islamic men who feel entitled to sex with their wife any time they please.

This was a link posted here at AW by another member:
[edited again] Here is a working link that professes a similar view AND refers back to the original article, links included [/edit]

http://lukeford.net/blog/?p=7840

And I've had experience with a man with a similar attitude...he was definitely not Islamic or even Christian.

As for hitting your wife, that's not limited to one religion, either. Just look up "Christian Domestic Discipline".

I think it's all sick.

selkn.asrai said:

A lot of men (wrongfully) think that if a man forces sex with his spouse, it's not rape because they're married.

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Sadly, rape laws in some states still reflect this thinking. I suspect they're the same states with laws that say rape can only be done by a man.

Cranky said:

We can point fingers and be all aghast, but here in the US, I don't think a husband was successfully prosecuted for raping his wife until the '70's.

We made the leap, but not all that long ago, this was a pretty mainstream belief, not simply the province of mysogynists and fringe folks.

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Monkey said:

It's certainly not just Islamic men who feel entitled to sex with their wife any time they please.

This was a link posted here at AW by another member:
http://townhall.com/Common/PrintPage...d9904e41c0&t=c [edit] Apparently that link doesn't work anymore. It was an article about how women should never refuse their husbands sex because men equate sex with love. Refusing sex, according to the article, could lead to unfaithfulness and divorce, and there was more than a hint of "and it would be the woman's fault!"

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The article didn't say any such thing. The article addressed circumstances of if a woman is incessantly "not being in the mood" for sex (a hugely common occurance) when she's married to a good man. There's a huge damned difference.

kuwisdelu said:

Sadly, rape laws in some states still reflect this thinking. I suspect they're the same states with laws that say rape can only be done by a man.

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Point taken. I shall resist the urge to google to find out which states. Gah!

John Paton said:

Why do some people get so outta whack ??

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I have no idea. If everyone lived by these principles, it would be a much better, happier, satisfied world.

*ducks the thrown chairs*

When we got married, I told my wife she would have the right to beat me any time I didn't want sex when she did. So far, she's never hit me.

But seriously, why do these things happen? Ignorance, aided and abetted by a culture that allows it.

I don't think a husband was successfully prosecuted for raping his wife until the '70's.

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That's probably a reflection of an increase in womens' greater economic freedom from the 50s and 60s, finally overcoming matrimonial oppression.

Prior to the 50s, it was exceedingly difficult for women to get a decent paying job. There was still a general attitude that women couldn't do 'man's work', like firefighting, police work, most industrial jobs, etc. Women in the military?!? That's just crazy talk.

It takes breaking that economic prison where women must rely on their husbands for a living, where women are kept out of the workforce. We're getting there in the USA, but there's still some ground to make up, like equal pay for equal work.

CaptShady, this is from the originally quoted article:

First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wife's refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him.

<snip for brevity>

This is a major reason many husbands clam up. A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet. And most men will never tell their wives why they have become quiet and distant.

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You're saying that's NOT implying that telling your husband you aren't in the mood for sex can lead to marital strife? That if this happens, it's not the woman's fault?

If a woman does not want sex, and the man forces himself on her, it is rape. If the man uses blackmail, even if he's using the relationship itself as blackmail, it's still rape. Don't tell me that it's necessary because women want sex so infrequently. That's a load of crap. Different people have different sex drives, and if this was going to be a huge problem in the marriage, then you should have discovered that BEFORE you said "I do".

Captshady said:

The article didn't say any such thing. The article addressed circumstances of if a woman is incessantly "not being in the mood" for sex (a hugely common occurance) when she's married to a good man. There's a huge damned difference.

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I'm not sure if you're agreeing that spousal rape is wrong, or if you are saying that sometimes it's okay.

What ARE you saying?

Monkey said:

CaptShady, this is from the originally quoted article:



You're saying that's NOT implying that telling your husband you aren't in the mood for sex can lead to marital strife? That if this happens, it's not the woman's fault?

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That's what I'm saying, yes. It IS saying that it can lead to marital strife and that the woman shares in the responsibility.

Monkey said:

If a woman does not want sex, and the man forces himself on her, it is rape. If the man uses blackmail, even if he's using the relationship itself as blackmail, it's still rape. Don't tell me that it's necessary because women want sex so infrequently.

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NEVER said that!!!!!!!! You love to turn anyone that disagrees with you into a monster.

Plot Device said:

I'm not sure if you're agreeing that spousal rape is wrong, or if you are saying that sometimes it's okay.

What ARE you saying?

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Spousal rape is wrong.

So you're saying:

A) A high frequency of a wife choosing to refuse her husband can lead to ...

C) marital strife which ...

D) is partly the woman's fault, and yet ...

E) no case of marital strife should ever justify/lead to force and/or violence.

Cranky said:

Point taken. I shall resist the urge to google to find out which states. Gah!

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Good news: I googled it myself. This was the case a few years ago (well...is the 90's still "a few years ago"?). It's since been criminalized all across the US.

Bad news: Many states still treat it as a lesser crime with more lenient penalties. IMO, penalties for rape are too lenient as it is.

NEVER said that!!!!!!!! You love to turn anyone that disagrees with you into a monster.

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Captshady, I've never called you a monster, thought of you as such, or meant to imply anything like that about you. This is an issue that hits close to home for me, and I appologize if any of my responses have seemed to vilify you or have been out of step with the general tone of the thread.

But the original article that I'm refering to was repulsive to me, mainly for the part I quoted, but also for "Part II" of that same rant. I originally posted it to make my point that the idea that women somehow owed their bodies to their husbands was not just an Islamic concept. I didn't mention who posted it, and I didn't mean it as an attack. After that, I was clarifying my position on the ARTICLE, not on any POSTER.

Plot Device said:

So you're saying:

A) A high frequency of a wife choosing to refuse her husband can lead to ...

C) marital strife which ...

D) is partly the woman's fault, and yet ...

E) no case of marital strife should ever justify/lead to force and/or violence.

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Sure. No case of any strife should ever justify/lead to force and/or violence.