• Guest please check The Index before starting a thread.

Blue Ridge Literary Agency (Dawn Dowdle)

LMILLER111

New kid, be gentle!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
9
hmmm - I'm torn. On the one hand it is clear that Ms. Dowdle doesn't have a wealth of 'agenting' experience, and the sales that she has posted seem a less than impressive. But on the other hand, she has editorial experience and she is not being deceptive about her background. By virtue of being an agent the doors to the big conglomerate presses are open. True a personal relationship with the editors is nice, but there is no way that agents only sell manuscripts to editors they have a personal relationship with. What I mean is that Ms. Dowdle has the editorial experience to get books into shape and she can get the manuscripts into the hands of acquiring editors.

Christine, since you've seen the pitches prepared by Ms. Dowdle, right? Would you say they were well written and professional?

It makes a difference because it's only going to take a couple sales to the bigger guys to give Ms. Dowdle instant street-cred. So, is she worth the risk with your work? Well, all the information is available, she's not hiding anything, so ultimately that's something authors need to decide for themselves.
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
By virtue of being an agent the doors to the big conglomerate presses are open.

Merely calling yourself an agent is not enough to open doors. In-house editors prefer to work with agents they know, either by experience or reputation, because they can trust those agents to represent salable manuscripts and to submit appropriate work. Agents they don't recognize get low priority--and if the agent is obviously unprofessional (as many inexperienced agents are), they will get no priority at all.

It really is true that having a bad agent is worse than having no agent.

- Victoria
 

LMILLER111

New kid, be gentle!
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 22, 2009
Messages
171
Reaction score
9
Merely calling yourself an agent is not enough to open doors. In-house editors prefer to work with agents they know, either by experience or reputation, because they can trust those agents to represent salable manuscripts and to submit appropriate work. Agents they don't recognize get low priority--and if the agent is obviously unprofessional (as many inexperienced agents are), they will get no priority at all.

It really is true that having a bad agent is worse than having no agent.

- Victoria

True. We all prefer to deal with people we know, and agents are likely no different. And certainly snagging an agent that has rep'ed successful authors should be everyone's goal. My point was just that there are many new agents out there that come from varying backgrounds (Law, Editorial ... etc) and they start out without contacts. Not all agents start as slush-readers for agencies or editors for publishing houses.

If Ms. Dowdle knows how to write a pitch, how to get the contact information for the editors at the various houses and knows how to get a mss. in shape for submission, I think she'll actually start making noteworthy sales. I hope she does. For her authors sakes. I'm not going to sub to her until she does, but I think the odds are that she will. She does have editorial experience.

Also worth repeating, A bad agent is worse than no agent. But a NEW or INEXPERIENCED agent isn't necessarily a BAD agent.



Merry Christmas Everyone!
 
Last edited:

Stacia Kane

Girl Detective
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
8,142
Reaction score
2,668
Location
In cahoots with the other boo-birds
Website
www.staciakane.com
True. We all prefer to deal with people we know, and agents are likely no different. And certainly snagging an agent that has rep'ed successful authors should be everyone's goal.

Yes, because having an agent is essentially useless otherwise.


My point was just that there are many new agents out there that come from varying backgrounds (Law, Editorial ... etc) and they start out without contacts.

Name one.


Sure, lots of new agents start that way. But no old experienced agents did. Think about that for a minute.

The problem is those new, inexperienced agents never make a sale or become successes, because they have no contacts and don't know the industry.

I can think of *one* agent who started out without publishing experience. This person spent a year or two studying and attending publishing events in an effort to meet people. It still took her four or five years to make a sale, and sales are still pretty much a once-a-year event for her--and they're generally made to houses which don't require agents.



Not all agents start as slush-readers for agencies or editors for publishing houses.

No, some of them start out as regular assistants or interns or whatever, or maybe they start out in other aspects of publishing. But I promise you, they all started in entry-level positions in publishing.

The most recent successful "new" agent I can think of started out, and spend something like ten years in, publicity at several different NY houses before becoming an agent. No, she wasn't an assistant or slush-reader, but she certainly had publishing experience, knew everyone and was known by everyone.


If Ms. Dowdle knows how to write a pitch, how to get the contact information for the editors at the various houses and knows how to get a mss. in shape for submission, I think she'll actually start making noteworthy sales.

But we have zero evidence that she knows how to do any of these things. And she's been in business for some time now and has yet to make a noteworthy sale.


I hope she does. For her authors sakes. I'm not going to sub to her until she does, but I think the odds are that she will. She does have editorial experience.

No, sorry, odds are that she will not. Take a look through all the agents/agencies listed in gray in the Index. All of them thought they could pick it up as they went along too.


Also worth repeating, A bad agent is worse than no agent. But a NEW or INEXPERIENCED agent isn't necessarily a BAD agent.

No, they may not be BAD as in steal-your-money. But they're going to be BAD as in waste-your-time-and-your-work.

Seriously. I know it seems like it's something anyone with a brain can do, but it's not, it really isn't. "Agent" is not an entry-level job. If it was, we wouldn't need agents; we'd all be able to sell our own work with a little research.



Merry Christmas Everyone!



And to you! I hope you have a wonderful holiday!
 

Marian Perera

starting over
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Dec 29, 2006
Messages
14,333
Reaction score
4,578
Location
Heaven is a place on earth called Toronto.
Website
www.marianperera.com
Also worth repeating, A bad agent is worse than no agent. But a NEW or INEXPERIENCED agent isn't necessarily a BAD agent.

I know first-hand what it's like to work with an inexperienced agent. Having been there and done that, I've decided to query only agents with recent sales in my genre.

As Stacia said, an inexperienced agent is unlikely to take your money. But in the end, they're likely to be a waste of time.

Have a great Christmas. :)
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
My point was just that there are many new agents out there that come from varying backgrounds (Law, Editorial ... etc) and they start out without contacts. Not all agents start as slush-readers for agencies or editors for publishing houses.

You're absolutely right. And new agents who come from a non-publishing-related background rarely manage to make a go of it.

It's not just about the contacts. It's way harder to build those if you come from outside the industry, but it can be done. And research can tell you what a professional approach should be, so that can be managed too. It's also possible to get a sense of market trends from following industry publications and newsletters. So all of this can be done by a motivated amateur.

But an agent also needs to be able to recognize publishable manuscripts, and to be plugged in enough to what's going on in publishing to have a good sense of what a particular in-house editor might be interested in. The latter is much harder than it sounds. Different editors have different tastes even within the same imprint, and it can be a real challenge for someone without publishing or agenting experience even to figure out which editors work for which imprints, let alone what books those editors have worked on.

But spotting marketable work is really where inexperienced agents trip up. Most people can tell a bad manuscript from a pretty good one, but telling a merely pretty good manuscript from an excellent one--and guessing which excellent manuscripts are likely to get an offer from a commercial publisher--is a much more subtle skill. Obviously having publishing industry experience doesn't magically confer this skill. Some people have it naturally; some people have to learn it; some people can't learn it no matter what their experience. And even successful agents make bad guesses. But if you have worked in publishing, if you've seen the kinds of manuscripts that do get taken on--and especially if you've seen the great mass of manuscripts that don't make it--you're much more likely to be able to select salable projects than someone who just knows what they like.

Can a totally inexperienced (and literate--that should go without saying, but many of the would-be literary agents I get questions about via Writer Beware are only barely literate) person acquire all these skills? Sure. But they are really at a heavy disadvantage, compared with someone who starts out with some or all of the skills. Something else to consider: their clients will be their learning curve. From an author's perspective, do you really want to be an inexperienced agent's guinea pig? And before anyone asks how new agents can ever become successful if authors avoid them, it's not an author's job to help an agent become successful. It's the agent's job to help the author become successful.

If you were looking for a contractor to re-do your kitchen, would you hire someone who had looked at a lot of kitchen catalogs and done some carpentry in his basement, but had never actually built a kitchen before? Agenting is a skilled profession. Skilled professions require professional skills. Why would you hire someone to do a job unless they actually had some credentials for doing it?

As to Ms. Dowdle's editorial experience...she runs her own editorial service, but there's no indication that she had any professional training or experience before she set it up. Plus, just on one spot check I was able to find a literary agency client who is also a client of the editing service--a clear conflict of interest.

- Victoria
 

Christine N.

haz a shiny new book cover
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
7,705
Reaction score
1,336
Location
Where the Wild Things Are
Website
www.christine-norris.com
Her queries were general letters, nothing spectacular of note. Any of our authors here could write one as well or better, especially if they post it in SYW.

I've read better and worse. *shrug*

ETA, for those who wander by this thread in the future: Getting queries from Ms. Dowdle is not a bad thing necessarily; the only reason I became curious is because we got several queries from her in a few months and I wondered who she was, since I didn't recognize her name. We read her client's work just as we would any other author's. It's just that her name as agent doesn't really get her clients any special consideration either. Those queries get placed in the queue with everyone else's.

Being her client just isn't an advantage in the grand scheme of things, to us anyway, and if we buy one of her client's books, her work isn't going to get her much of a profit, AND her percentage is going to cut into the author's royalties. You, as the author, should consider those things before you submit to her or sign with her. Really think, knowing her track record: what will she do for me that I can't do for myself?
 
Last edited:

FROBONICUS

Registered
Joined
Apr 23, 2010
Messages
19
Reaction score
0
Garsh, how come all her sales listed on PM are to publishers who have bought from no agent besides her? I just can't figger it!
 

Erin

Listening to my other selves
Super Member
Registered
Joined
May 3, 2007
Messages
1,638
Reaction score
363
Location
California
Website
www.erinrichards.com
Garsh, how come all her sales listed on PM are to publishers who have bought from no agent besides her? I just can't figger it!

I also wondered if anyone else was selling to those pubs. There were 3 new sales for her listed last week to Camel & kNight Romance.
 

Maddie

Roe Draje
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 7, 2009
Messages
491
Reaction score
17
Location
lassen on the brain
Website
www.saraville.com
It seems that Ms. Dowdle is not concerned so much as to where she makes the sales, but that she has any type of sale to report to PM. These sales have manage to list her as #15 in the top 100 of the fiction dealmakers. Still, many sales to the kind of publishers she solicits don't create the same type of confidence that a few solid sales to major publishing houses would.
 

Donna Pudick

Banned
Flounced
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
290
Reaction score
10
Location
Florida
Noticed on PM that she has sold eight books to the kNight Romance Publishing, a year-old publisher that is experiencing some nice sales. The kNight PM deals list only her as the agent they do business with. Curious.
 

DocZack

Registered
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
26
Reaction score
0
Legit agents check the PM pages for possibles, but unfortunately scammers do, too.

If this "loves to read and work with people" agent picked you, then saying no thank you would be a good idea. The "not recommended" on P&E is not there as a decorative statement. Professionals in the industry found her to be fishy. They don't bestow that judgment lightly.

Anyone can love reading and working with people. Understanding how to negotiate a literary deal is a whole different skill set.

It is very clear that Blue Ridge has no experience in that area or it would be mentioned on the website. I would no more go to her to get a book sold than be operated on by a brain surgeon who's never been to medical school.

*I* love reading and working with people, have been in publishing for nearly 20 years, and I am so NOT qualified to do a book deal. At least I know enough to recognize that Blue Ridge is also clueless.



In some cases, yes. But the industry is fluid and experienced agencies take on new agents all the time to handle the load.

When I fired my first agent and went hunting for a new one, the head honcha of one agency didn't want to rep me, but passed me to one of the junior members of the place--a young hungry, junior member who got out there and worked hard for me. She still is.

She has since left, joined another agency, and is still actively seeking new clients.


And whom would that be?
 

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess
Kind Benefactor
Absolute Sage
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
6,704
Reaction score
1,314
Location
Far from the madding crowd
Website
www.victoriastrauss.com
Most of her sales appear to be to publishers that accept manuscripts direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with solid independent presses--but the real test of an agent is getting in where authors can't, i.e., to large houses. I don't see much evidence of that in Ms. Dowdle's track record.

- Victoria
 

Filigree

Mildly Disturbing
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 16, 2010
Messages
16,441
Reaction score
1,529
Location
between rising apes and falling angels
Website
www.cranehanabooks.com
That interview has made me even more skeptical of Chuck's blog -- and the services offered by WD, in general. I still read the 'Guide to Literary Agents' blog on a monthly basis, but I've learned to double-check the information given out.

As for Dawn's agency, er, no. She's not interested in my genre, and I have yet to see real value-added for her clients.
 

flygal716

Jump in the way of good luck
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 20, 2011
Messages
156
Reaction score
4
Location
Long Island, NY
Most of her sales appear to be to publishers that accept manuscripts direct from authors. There's nothing wrong with placing books with solid independent presses--but the real test of an agent is getting in where authors can't, i.e., to large houses. I don't see much evidence of that in Ms. Dowdle's track record.
You're right.
 

CaoPaux

Mostly Harmless
Staff member
Super Moderator
Moderator
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 12, 2005
Messages
13,952
Reaction score
1,746
Location
Coastal Desert
The Sleuth Edit domain is now a SEO "blog". Ms. Dowdle has recent sales to the likes of Kensington and Harlequin Superromance, which are a big step up, but still don't require an agent. Most recent sales are to Loucks-Christenson / Snowy Creek, however.
 

andiwrite

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 9, 2012
Messages
1,482
Reaction score
140
Location
In constant transit
I just found this agency through the #MSWL tag on twitter, so I went and checked out the site. Something seemed off, so I came here and read the entire thread.

I think I'll steer clear of this one, although she does have a big list of clients on her site now. Also, what does she mean "You will need to do publicity for your manuscript?" I don't think I've seen that on any other agency website before.
 

Cel_Fleur

Braving the query mountains
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 10, 2014
Messages
144
Reaction score
1
Location
England
"I just found this agency through the #MSWL tag on twitter, so I went and checked out the site. Something seemed off, so I came here and read the entire thread."

I came here basically the same way. By the sounds of it, she's stopped directly soliciting authors, which is nice, but still - this shows some disconcerting thoughts if her website is still 'not right' after, what?, four, five years. I can't say what it was, but it didn't look professional enough. Just missing that 'something' I expect of agent sites.

I wonder if any of her authors are on this forum.

To hear from them would be quite informative, actually. I mean, I don't intend to query her until I see evidence that she's made sales to publishers who don't take unsolicited authors, but I'm open to hearing from the other side.

:) Fleur
 

writer1709

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
I know two authors that are rep'd by Ms. Dowdle. I won't put their names out of respect for privacy. From what I know when she does not sell her clients manuscripts she leaves it up to the author to sell. Most of her titles on the website are small presses where the author does not need an agent. I see a few titles from Avon Books, I believe they are with Harper Collins not requiring agents, and Harlequin.

I wouldn't recommend her. You want an agent who knows what they are doing, and has a reputable background. For example one agent I'm querying was the assistant to Jodi Reamer for 4 years before being promoted to junior agent.
 

writer1709

Registered
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
So she favorite one of my tweets in #pitmad after this forum I'm going to go with a pass