Palestinians forced to scavenge for food

And, tangetally related (since there's food involved)

Love hyperbole. Starving people die of starvation. Malnourished for whatever reason can survive. If Palestinians in Gaza are starving, they all should be dead soon.

Jews were frequently accused of poisoning wells centuries ago. Was that a not so subtle message?

Cranky said:

Okay, that's enough. Time for the LOLcatz.

Can't say I didn't warn you.

Click to expand...

i'm done. i was just bringing my thoughts on the subject to summation.

put the cats away.

Maybe this guy can find the topic, I dunno.

William Haskins said:

i'm done. i was just bringing my thoughts on the subject to summation.

put the cats away.

Click to expand...

You hate cats, too? You really are evil.

The cats are over the line. I'm tellin.

United States Contributes Nearly $28 Million to Relief Effort for Palestinian Refugees in Lebanon

The United States has contributed an additional $17.81 million to the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) for reconstruction and emergency relief at the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in Lebanon. Fighting during the summer of 2007 destroyed the camp and displaced over 30,000 people.

The money will be used to rebuild homes, schools, and health clinics that serve Palestinian refugees. The U.S. contribution also provides life-saving medicine, school uniforms, and heating and hot water during the winter for the displaced population.

With the additional funds, the U.S. contribution for this year now stands at $27.81 million to UNRWA for emergency relief and reconstruction in northern Lebanon. We encourage other donors to support strongly UNRWA’s relief and reconstruction appeals for the Nahr al-Bared camp.

The United States is UNRWA's largest bilateral donor. Since October 1, 2007, the United States has provided a total of $184.68 million to UNRWA. The contribution supports UNRWA’s core programs in the West Bank, Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan, including education for nearly 500,000 Palestinian children (half of whom are girls) at more than 650 schools. The United States’ funding to UNRWA also supported emergency operations in the West Bank and Gaza, including food assistance to over 900,000 vulnerable Palestinian refugees. In the summer of 2008, over 250,000 Palestinian refugee children took part in UNRWA’s “Summer Games,” which were partially funded by the United States.

2008/795

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2008/sept/110371.htm

Cranky said:

You hate cats, too? You really are evil.

Click to expand...

i love cats. i have 2 of them on my desk right now demonstrating the visual beauty of their asses with both pride and dramatic flair.

what i don't like is a (relatively) civilized debate being subverted by prefabricated humor, intended less as a diversion than as a warning slap.

but taste is subjective in these things, i suppose.

Interesting link, Haskins.

If all this stuff is being sent (and presumably, accounted for), then I gotta ask myself where it's all really going. Hamas stashing it someplace, to stir up more discontent? Israeli checkpoints keeping it from going through?

Or is it simply not enough?

As for your other post, YMMV, yep.

perhaps instead of smuggling in bombs and guns from egypt, they could repurpose these tunnels for bringing in bread and medicine.

Well, that would make sense, and frankly, not much about this whole conflict makes much sense anymore.

And build beach resorts and casinos.

as a point of clarification: the BBC link has to do with tunnels between gaza and egypt. i don't want it thought that i'm conflating the two (the other being tunnels used to kidnap IDF soldiers) - even though in my mind, they're related, given the amount of weapons smuggling in the former, but i digress.

the existence of caves used for the purposes of kidnapping is not some far-fetched propaganda against palestinians. it is well-known (to those who follow the conflict) that the 2006 abduction of gilad shalit was carried out in just this manner.

The thing that would make me hesitate about using them to transport/smuggle medical supplies and food is the fact that they don't seem to be well-constructed. They're pretty small, not allowing for much beyond a guy and one weapon to slide through, though of course they could go single file.

And what if the tunnel collapsed with aid inside? They'd be back to square one again, I suppose. Or they'd have to invest in making better tunnels. But of course, if it were in their minds to do so, rather than trying to carry out attacks, the safety of the tunnels would be a moot point. They wouldn't need them.

As an aside, here's some more photos I found.

it was more of a philosophical principle and not so much a logistical ideal.

True, but it made me think about it.

If they're serious about actually trying to better the lives of their fellows, I would think that getting food and other aid to the people would take higher priority than constructing crappy tunnels so they can carry out more attacks. And the one in the essay I linked to was on the border between Gaza and Egypt, not between Gaza and the rest of Israel.

As far as I'm concerned (and I've pretty much been of this same mind for awhile, full disclosure), this is just more proof that Hamas and the like are much more interested in doing for themselves than in concerning themselves with the actual plight of their fellow Palestinians.

To avoid an incident at the airport, Israel could have either refused to grant visas or communicated to the UN that I would not be allowed to enter, but neither step was taken. It seemed that Israel wanted to teach me, and more significantly, the UN a lesson: there will be no cooperation with those who make strong criticisms of Israel's occupation policy.

After being denied entry, I was put in a holding room with about 20 others experiencing entry problems. At this point, I was treated not as a UN representative, but as some sort of security threat, subjected to an inch-by-inch body search and the most meticulous luggage inspection I have ever witnessed.

Click to expand...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/19/israel-palestinian-territories-united-nations

If we can't trust the UN and their representatives, who can we trust?

Well, ok. A couple of things.

For those arguing about who broke the "cease fire" -- the mortars and the Qassams never ceased. There were something like 200 of them during this "lull"

UN representatives had been warning against "immenent humanitarian crisis in Gaza" for several years.

To use the immortal words from "Princess Bride" -- "I do not think that word means what you think it means."

Do the Gazans suffer? Certainly. Though not as much as some people think or claim. And it certainly doesn't prevent them from attending the Hamas rally featuring mock Gilad Shalit pleading to see his parents (Hamas, by the way, so far denied any request by the Red Cross to meet with Shalit).


EDIT: Notice that the Guardian article in the op didn't say there was no food in Gaza, only that people couldn't afford it.

sulong said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/19/israel-palestinian-territories-united-nations

If we can't trust the UN and their representatives, who can we trust?

Click to expand...

Since when could you trust UN representatives? Especially, given UN's behaviour and specifically that of its Human Rights Council and its General Assembly President.

dmytryp said:

Since when could you trust UN representatives? Especially, given UN's behaviour and specifically that of its Human Rights Council and its General Assembly President.

Click to expand...

So what? This means our only choice is to trust the word of the loudest whiner in these opposing views?

Or (my choice) don't trust the words of ether side, and let them all go to hell together?
Tough on the pawns, but they got it tough anyway.

For those arguing about who broke the "cease fire" -- the mortars and the Qassams never ceased. There were something like 200 of them during this "lull"

Click to expand...

As a matter of fact, in each of the two days prior to the end of the 'cease fire', more rockets and mortars were sent Israel's way than were on the day the 'cease fire' ended.

Do you know that the Saudis are building a resort hotel in Tel Aviv. That's in Israel. What that proves is that this is about money. The Saudis will claim to hate Israel and Jews to make their people happy, but they go where the money is. They also hope to keep their own population distracted by Gaza so they won't complain about problems at home.

What a world! What a world! (I now melt....)

sulong said:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/19/israel-palestinian-territories-united-nations

If we can't trust the UN and their representatives, who can we trust?

Click to expand...

Richard Falk, of the linked article, has been an anti Israel extremist for years. He has compared Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the Holocaust.

He also is an important figure in the 911 for truth movement, which maintains that the US was complicit in the 911 attacks in order to provide a justification for invading Muslim lands.

From Wikipedia: Frequently expressed propositions among movement supporters are that the mainstream account of the events of 9/11 is false and that the perceived anomalies in the official account can better be explained by the theory that a "rogue network,"[6] including individuals in the US government, planned, carried out, and covered up the attack or deliberately allowed the attacks to take place.

I generally support the UN, but for this man to be in the position he holds is a travesty.

rugcat said:

Richard Falk, of the linked article, has been an anti Israel extremist for years. He has compared Israel's treatment of the Palestinians to the Holocaust.

He also is an important figure in the 911 for truth movement, which maintains that the US was complicit in the 911 attacks in order to provide a justification for invading Muslim lands.

From Wikipedia: Frequently expressed propositions among movement supporters are that the mainstream account of the events of 9/11 is false and that the perceived anomalies in the official account can better be explained by the theory that a "rogue network,"[6] including individuals in the US government, planned, carried out, and covered up the attack or deliberately allowed the attacks to take place.

I generally support the UN, but for this man to be in the position he holds is a travesty.

Click to expand...

I don't dispute any thing you said about this guy.


But being a vocal anti Israel, in itself is not sufficient to completely disregard what he has to say. If he don't like Israels government policies, thats all it means. It don't mean that he's evil, or scum or anything like that. We get fed enough pro propaganda and anti propaganda to gag an ox with.


As far as the 911 stuff goes, The whole WMD fiasco, the finding passports intact at crash sites, and such things, can leave any thinking person wondering just what the heck is going on.
Sometimes the official story gets stretched a little thin.


I just don't think that being a skeptic is cause enough to marginalize an academics opinion on things.

sulong said:

But being a vocal anti Israel, in itself is not sufficient to completely disregard what he has to say. If he don't like Israels government policies, thats all it means.

Click to expand...

That's true. But he has an agenda, and is clearly unable to be objective about human rights issues concerning Israel, any more than would a rabid pro Israeli supporter whose slant was that Israel is beyond reproach on all issues.

These kinds of people do great harm to whatever is left of the UN's credibility when they are assigned positions of influence or power.