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View Poll Results: Do Good & Evil exist

Voters
191. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    71 37.17%
  • No

    116 60.73%
  • There is only Good

    4 2.09%
  • There is only Evil

    0 0%
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Results 126 to 140 of 140

Thread: Do Good & Evil exist outside of Human society?

  1. #126
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    Personally this question boils down to a theology perspective. Looking at the human race, every civilization had a measure of what was good and what was evil, but at the core there was a moral sense that developed it.

    Personally I believe there is an absolute measure to which is good and which is evil by which all will need to account. (For an expounding of this please PM me and I would glad to discuss this further on a one on one basis.)

    That said, the lines can be blurred or even forgotten if an absolute is not established or not recognized. So I can understand the issue because of that.

    To quote ceasar: "what is truth?"

    In essence the question of good and evil revolve around that question. If truth is relative, then so is good and evil. With no absolute who can say which is which?

    In regards to the original question: I voted yes, and as soon as I find resources to support my stance I shall cite them.
    Last edited by Kehengto; 03-05-2012 at 04:48 AM. Reason: adding content

  2. #127
    figuring it all out
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    I agree with kehengto. I have a book called In Praise of Meekness, Essays on Ethics and Politics. If you ever want to read up on it, somewhere in this book it mentions that theology of past civilizations suggested good and evil existed. Thus sprang the idea. Norberto bobbio uses his arguments to suggest a lot of the time as a central theme morals are the government's priority, he uses this as supporting background info on where people made judgments based on values. In other words if the end justifies the means in cases of driscrimination of the weak and oppressed.

  3. #128
    Fear is a only a barrier max929's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziljon View Post
    I've been thinking about motives, about protagonists and antagonists, and about good and evil.

    I'm confused. Are good and evil absolute or are they relative? And if they are relative, then how can they exist at all when the most common assumed definition for both of them entails being the opposite of the other?

    Everything I come up with as an example of pure evil turns out not to be when attributed to nature (you try).

    So what is evil? What is good? Do they exist outside of society, outside of consciousness?

    Any thoughts?
    Good and Evil are relative. They depend on each other to define one another. You cannot measure good without first measuring evil, and vice versa

    If you accept that answer the next question you have to ask is how do you want to quantify your measurements...from a utilitarian prospective or an isolationist view point? Is it the greatest good for the most or the greatest good for the individual...

    Lastly, good and evil are strictly human constructs. They are abstract and intangible. They are hypotheticals we have to imagine for them to exist. They don't exist in the universe...for example, if an asteroid hits earth and kills all the life on it, the universe didn't intend to kill all life, that is just what happened...a mathematical equation of velocity+mass+trajectory=boom

  4. #129
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    I don't think so that, Good and Evil exist out side of our society. As these are always with us and between us. Infect, goods and evils are someone out of us, as people do have different nature, behavior, ethics, code of conduct and values. Which actually sometime act as good or evil.

  5. #130
    practical experience, FTW StevenHarvey1990's Avatar
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    I love these debates.

    I'm going to say neither good nor evil exist. Not limited to existence outside humanity. I don't believe they exist. Period. The key here is belief. There is no right answer or wrong answer.

    This is purely a hypothetical but let's say ... I go out of my house now and butcher the first person I see. Who's to say that is 'evil' or 'wrong'?

    Doesn't matter the reason, who it was, how I did it, if I ate their ear or whatever.

    Only PEOPLE would give that action or series of actions a meaning or describe it a certain way. Generally speaking that would be described as sick, disturbed, criminal and evil.

    My point is no matter who or how many people say "Oh that's evil" or "That's proof that evil exists" it doesn't make them right, or by contrast wrong.

    We are animals. Sophisticated or civilised, yes. We all have primal urges and desires, be they sexual or otherwise. Look at the Oedipus complex (not saying I believe it). Many would deem a Mother/Son or Father/Daughter sexual relationship 'wrong'. If and I stress IF it's a natural instinct as Freud would suggest then what is so wrong? Are the people who repress these natural urges not wrong then?

    The same could be argued with someone like Ed Gein. Is he wrong? Is he really evil?

    My opinion ... No!

    Like someone said it's all relative or subjective. One mans definition or more importantly opinion is not right or wrong it's just an opinion or belief.

    There can be no correct answer is where to leave it I think. One of those topics, like many philosophical topics, that can only go round in circles.
    "Movies don't create psycho's, movies make psycho's more creative"

  6. #131
    figuring it all out anne_tedeton's Avatar
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    Oh, man. I love debates like these.

    This is a hard question, because the definitions of good and evil are different across cultures. What is socially acceptable (good) in one culture may be abhorrent in another, and our concepts of good and evil aren't static. They change and evolve over time. Some things that were considered to be good hundreds of years ago are considered evil now. In first-world countries, we typically don't stone people who have affairs anymore. The rules have changed. They never stop changing.

    Of course, it could be argued that our morals are wrong, but given that good and bad are dependant upon culture, that argument can get a bit tricky.

    There's also the problem of some people having no innate moral compass. Whether you argue for nature or nuture, some people just have no distinction between good and evil. You could argue that good and evil are simply split into reward/punishment, but that's more of an end result of behavior.

    Even that becomes tricky. Psychology steers away from labelling people and behaviors as good or evil. You're either "normal" or "mentally ill." And if sociopathy, a personality disorder, is considered a mental illness, well, that makes things even trickier, doesn't it?

    But there are certain irredeemable behaviors that remain somewhat static across time and culture--murder, cannibalism, rape, incest, stealing, lying, etc. Given that there's general agreement surrounding particular behaviors, it could be argued that a predominant "evil" does exist. "Good" seems to be the means of resistance. As to which is humanity's natural state...well, that's a whole different argument.

    If you really want to give yourself nightmares, Lars von Trier's Antichrist posits something truly upsetting--that humanity was not created by God, but by the devil. The film goes waaaay beyond the concept of original sin. I needed brain bleach after watching it because the content was so disturbing, but that particular idea was the most upsetting part of the whole film.

    TL;DR I personally think good and evil are socially determined concepts. We can't be fully certain as to whether morality is a part of a person's natural state, but we can agree that certain behaviors are either acceptable or unacceptable.
    --Anne

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  7. #132
    New Fish; Learning About Thick Skin
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    I am pleasantly surprised to see such a debate exists on a writing forum. As a cognitive scientist in training, this question is of quite some interest to me.
    Personally, I am a moral relativist. There is no inherent morality, only the values we choose for ourselves.

  8. #133
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    What we deem good or evil are personal and societal norms. Most Westerners nowadays would feel that killing a child because of physical and/or mental abnormalities is an evil, however that's exactly what the Spartans did.
    Many still look at homosexuality as a sin or an evil, but many of us see that it's a natural occurrence in the natural world and, thus, not an evil. Unless we're going to start labeling natural occurrences as evil.

  9. #134
    A true Djentleman. DjentlemanJoe's Avatar
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    It is my belief that good and evil are entirely human concepts.

    They are also both a matter of perspective.
    I wrote a book once. Maybe you'd like a free copy.

  10. #135
    Dust Bunnies are NSA Agents! robjvargas's Avatar
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    Good and Evil, the general ideas, are universal. The devil... ahem... is in the details.

    I think all species with any level of self-awareness understand that there are personal and societal priorities. The priorities *should* represent the survival and even the flourishing of the society. That would be good. The personal, where it interferes with the societal, that's evil.

    Of course, that doesn't mean that society is right. I'm just saying that the society will normalize certain things, and that normalization will be perceived as good.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
    -Robert A. Heinlein-

  11. #136
    you didn't come and help me kuwisdelu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robjvargas View Post
    Good and Evil, the general ideas, are universal.
    Are they?

    I'm sure plenty of cultures don't have a concept of evil.

    At least, not in the Christian sense.
    (a blog.) ...last updated 15 June 2015

  12. #137
    Digital Artist marinapr9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GroundSquirrel View Post
    What we deem good or evil are personal and societal norms. Most Westerners nowadays would feel that killing a child because of physical and/or mental abnormalities is an evil, however that's exactly what the Spartans did.
    Many still look at homosexuality as a sin or an evil, but many of us see that it's a natural occurrence in the natural world and, thus, not an evil. Unless we're going to start labeling natural occurrences as evil.
    Societal beliefs, traditions, mind sets, religions etc aren't the essence of what is dark and light in human nature. Good and Evil, I believe, exists in us all regardless of our upbringing and outside influences. You just can't pigeonhole it.
    http://earthkandi.blogspot.co.uk/
    "I've danced at Abraham Lincoln's birthday bash - I've peaked." Leigh Boswell, The Open Doorway.

  13. #138
    Dust Bunnies are NSA Agents! robjvargas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuwisdelu View Post
    Are they?

    I'm sure plenty of cultures don't have a concept of evil.

    At least, not in the Christian sense.
    That's the details thing I mentioned. If we're limiting to a strictly christian view, I agree with you.

    But I think all societies see a "good" and an "evil," whatever the definitions of those may be.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
    -Robert A. Heinlein-

  14. #139
    Still confused by shoelaces Once!'s Avatar
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    Interesting question.

    I think there has been an evolutionary process from "good and bad" to "good and evil".

    At its simplest and most personal level, something is good if it makes an individual happy. It puts food in our bellies, it gives us lots of opportunities for bedroom Olympics, it allows us to bring up kids, it keeps us warm and safe. Or, as Conan and Genghis would have it, what is best in life? To crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of their spouses or significant others.

    At this level, something is bad if it stops you from being happy. Hunger, disease, an absence of rumpy-pumpy, not safe, not warm. Dead.

    These definitions are modified when we start to exist as a group of people rather than as individuals. A "good" person helps other people to be happy. They contribute to group happiness, food, sex, warmth, shelter and so on. A "bad" person does not contribute.

    When our thinking about group interactions becomes more complex we start to elaborate on what we mean by a bad person. We define degrees of "badness", from a misguided person who makes a mistake all the way through to a person who deliberately goes against the best interest of others.

    And from this we get the concept of evil. A very very bad person.

    This means that someone can be both good and evil. As the cliché goes, one person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.

    Does good and bad exist outside humanity? I think it does, but again it depends on your perspective. When a shark takes a seal, the shark community will see it as a good thing; the seal community will see it as bad. The definition of good and bad will vary depending on whether you are inside someone else's belly or they are in yours.

  15. #140
    bedeviled kobold's Avatar
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    Killer whales, too, devour seals, yet, after feeding, have been observed (and filmed) returning a last seal unharmed to the shore where it was first taken, all the while tossing it back and forth in what would seem to be a cruel form of play. Find it if you can; it looks like kids at 'catch'.

    And the open mouth of a killer whale would seem to resemble a toothy grin. That doesn't mean the animal is happy, or even that it could formulate in its brain the concept of happiness (or anything else).

    A dog can look as though it's smiling, but that doesn't mean it isn't about to bite you.

    How's that for muddying the waters? Pun intended.
    Read Russ Paladin's work in The Brasilia Review:

    http://www.brasiliareview.org/wordpr...-dr-lovecraft/

    http://www.brasiliareview.org/wordpr...-the-falconer/

    and in the March 2015 issue of DISTURBED Digest,
    in trade paperback from Alban Lake Publishing--

    http://albanlake.com/march-2015/

    . . .for a bit of darkness. . .

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