Sci-Fi vs. Techno

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MelancholyMan

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Where's the line between Science Fiction and the techno-thriller? If you have a fictional thriller that is based in large part on science, doesn't that make it science fiction? Of course science fiction implies other things along the lines of alternate worlds, much more advanced science, extraterrestrials, time travel, etc. So is true Sci-Fi based on things we all know can't happen, or at least can't happen now, but are ready to accept during our willing suspension of disbelief? While the techno-thriller uses things that can happen now, or that we can convince people of, as plot devices?

Why isn't "Hunt For Red October" science fiction? There is no caterpillar drive though the concept is real enough.

Certainly "Jurrasic Park" was Sci-Fi though it is set today and the science is no less plausible than that in "Hunt For Red October."

"Eater's of the Dead," was Sci-Fi even though it was set in like, 900 AD and had no science in it at all.

"Star Trek" (and plenty of others) have no scientific basis whatsoever yet they are considered sci-fi.

What's the common or uncommon thread? Naturally knowing how to categorize your work is very important when it comes to marketing. Or should you make choices early in your development cycle to ensure that your work fits neatly into one category or another?
 

waylander

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I think it is more a marketing perception than anything else.
Michael Crichton's novel are shelved as thrillers so he is not perceived as writing SF.
I suspect that there are more agents you can query with a techno-thriller than with a SF novel
 

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I guess it's a technothriller if it's placed with the mainstream thrillers in the store, rather than with the SF/F. As for how the marketing-o-mancers decide that, you'd have to examine what sets technothrillers apart. Crichton is straight science fiction to me, because he writes about scientists doing science and the consequences of science. But with his name recognition he has cross-genre appeal with the thriller and even 'mainstream' audience. Clancy to me is more a military thriller writer. Though he may use speculative technology in some of his books, it's not the focus and the settings are thoroughly contemporary. So if your writing is Clancy-like, it's a technothriller because there's a big focus on warfare and technology in your mainstream thriller. If your writing is Crichton-like, it's a technothriller because although it's science fiction, it's marketed at the thriller audience.
 
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dclary

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I thought this would be a rousing debate between the virtues of writing to Jean Michel Jarre over Moby.
 

Danthia

SF is typically stories where the story would fall apart if you took out the science. Jurasic Park wouldn't be a story without the genetics. Hunt for Red October would still work, because you could do the story with a different propulsion system for the drive.

Techno-thrillers usually refer to thrillers where the thrill is based on technology. A new kind of sub drive, a new virus, a spy plane, etc.
 

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Where's the line between Science Fiction and the techno-thriller? If you have a fictional thriller that is based in large part on science, doesn't that make it science fiction? Of course science fiction implies other things along the lines of alternate worlds, much more advanced science, extraterrestrials, time travel, etc. So is true Sci-Fi based on things we all know can't happen, or at least can't happen now, but are ready to accept during our willing suspension of disbelief? While the techno-thriller uses things that can happen now, or that we can convince people of, as plot devices?

Why isn't "Hunt For Red October" science fiction? There is no caterpillar drive though the concept is real enough.

Uh. There is a Caterpillar Drive—in point of fact—and it is so sensitive of material that when Clancy showed the U.S. Navy (to get the okay before publishing) they nearly disallowed it for its use of classified material. However, when Tom Clancy was able to show how he got the information—through ordinary research means—they published it under their fiction press. I remember reading the details of how Tom Clancy succeeded with The Hunt for Red October a couple of years ago. It's a good story, and a reassuring one for aspiring writers.


Certainly "Jurrasic Park" was Sci-Fi though it is set today and the science is no less plausible than that in "Hunt For Red October."

The reason that is considered mainstream (and I agree that it should be considered Sci-Fi) is because Crichton used details of cloning technology that really exist.

"Eater's of the Dead," was Sci-Fi even though it was set in like, 900 AD and had no science in it at all.

Eaters of the Dead I have to disagree with you on—and it's my favorite Crichton book. It was Historical Fiction. Crichton mixed the story of Ahmed ibn Faden with Beowulf, on a bet. A college friend bet him that no one could make either story exciting and Eaters of the Dead was the result. The "magic" of the Beowulf story was explained away and there was no technology in advance of the Vikings or Arabians.

"Star Trek" (and plenty of others) have no scientific basis whatsoever yet they are considered sci-fi.

That's not exactly true. There are scientific elements—and/or reasonable extrapolations of scientific elements—and the core scientific theory that "the answers are out there" to search for. Also, it uses advanced technology—which is the other principle aspect of science: the advancement of mankind.

What's the common or uncommon thread? Naturally knowing how to categorize your work is very important when it comes to marketing. Or should you make choices early in your development cycle to ensure that your work fits neatly into one category or another?

I think it's a bit of a mixture, really. Michael Crichton, who is your key "mainstream" example, wrote The Andromeda Strain, which was a medical based thriller—and was written while he was in medical school—which made it more credible. Five Patients was a follow-up medical thriller, and The Terminal Man was a medical thriller/psychological thriller. The Great Train Robbery was still in the mainstream realm, just a different kind of thriller. Four best sellers later came Eaters of the Dead, which I've already gone into. Jasper Johns was a biography of sorts, accompanied by the artist's work. Congo was his first forray into extrapolation (other than his three movies: Westworld, Runaway and Coma, the latter was based another author's novel) and that wasn't too much of a leap from what he knew was possible at the time. Sphere was his first unquestionably Sci-Fi book, and by then, he was a well-known best selling mainstream author. The next two Electronic Life and Travels were non-fiction. Jurassic Park extrapolated, true, but it was based on recent discoveries about dinosaurs and true cloning technology. His next two, you'll notice, weren't in any way Sci-Fi: Rising Sun and Disclosure. The came ER and The Lost World. Airframe was a fictionalized version of a true story—with a few well-researched changes. Timeline was a return to Sci-Fi, but, again with up to date theories of how time travel could be possible. Prey is another "small leap"—scientifically speaking—nanotechnology is alive and true, how they are programed in the book is speculative. State of Fear returns to his thriller roots. His last novel, Next, was actually written after a trip back to the medical school he had attended and learned what's wrong with the U.S.'s current handling of gene patents and with the laws governing human tissues—disturbing facts. There's a trend here. Even his Sci-Fi, for the most part, is based on fact, or popular theories.
 
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dclary

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I agree... Crichton's books are almost entirely "what could go wrong with TODAY'S technology" where sci-fi is "what could go wrong with tomorrow's?"
 

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I don't think it's just marketing, although some of that does go around. Crichton's near futures are not really different from our own present except in one particular way (the technology he is focusing on for the story). Science fiction, even at its most mundane, presents much more broad-reaching effects with its speculative creations.

It's a more holistic approach. Crichton says "look at this cool technology and be scared of how it could screw up your world", but doesn't actually deal with the consequences of technological development on society (and other technology); he's just interested in how the characters stop the technology from having consequences on the world.

A science fiction author says "look at this cool technology. See all the different consequences it has had on the world? I bet you never thought it would be used that way, or that this other weird technology would come about because of it."

(Science fiction doesn't have to revolve around technology, either... it could deal with broad-reaching societal developments instead. The point is, the setting itself is different from our own in fundamental ways.)
 

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Wow, Babbler, good stuff. Clearly you are a Crichton fan, and I agree with you everywhere it matters. This analysis is helping me not only see the difference, but more tightly focus the emphasis of my writing. I do believe that understanding genre is important, not only for marketing purposes, but in the same sense that a haiku must conform to certain standards. If it doesn't, it isn't a haiku. And while the rules of genre aren't as rigid as those of poety, I still see that the 'rules' are what force you to become creative. Creativity within bounds is far more difficult and infinitely more satisfying than simply going off willy-nilly.

I will disagree with Babblers technology on several points though, only because it is a favorite subject and having someone to debate with is so uncommon. While the concept for the caterpillar drive is theoretically possible, the efficiency is far to low for it to be useful. Using such a system, dependent on the polarity of water, gives you a maximum impulse of less than 1 knot while requiring exhorbitant amounts of power. And modern subs are so quiet they don't need them anyway. Also, on the technology used in "Prey", sheer fantasy. Yes, there is something called nanotech but doing what they do in that book is about as far out there as the warp drive. Which brings up Star Trek. About the only real science in Star Trek, even speculatively, is the idea that people would quickly die in the harsh vacuum of space. From requiring the engines to be running to stay in orbit, to the various time travel episodes, to completely ignoring the implications of relativity, StarTrek is fantasy. That said, even though I'm highly technicially competent and poking at the many scientific fallacies in Star Trek is part of the fun, it is one of my all time favorites and I never grow tired of them.

I only say this because perhaps in the end, science fiction is different things to different people. My favorite Sci-Fi is relationship and societal driven, in which case even books like "1984" and "Fahrenheit 451" could be considered science fiction.

Perhaps among the various genres it is the most - dare I use the word - nebulous?
 

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If you think about it, The Hunt For Red October wouldn't work without the catterpillar drive because too much of what the sub was doing was based on the speculative technology, and the plot wouldn't have functioned quite the same.

Techno-Thrillers are science fiction.

Look, if you go to the bookstore, "Chicklit" is shelved in literature, and not in romance, though they are usually romance books that strive towards a level of quality that is not the source of interest for the market of most romance books. In the same sense, techno-thrillers are sci-fi for people that aren't interested in how the heck a catterpillar drive works, and aren't drawn to books for the same reason people are drawn to Asimov, Bear, Kress, Nasir, and etc. It's "light" sci-fi versus "hard" sci-fi.

However, that line is so blurry, that it confounds marketing types more than us.

These marketing distinctions are very blurry. At the end of the day, bookstores will generally tend to put authors where their audience is. Thus, "Gentlemen of the Road" won't be sitting next to Guy Gavriel Kay and George RR Martin where it really belongs. Atwood's sci-fi masterpieces are sitting next to her literary fiction. And Ursula LeGuin has a strong presence in the SF section, and non-existant in the literary section.

Marketing lines are fuzzy, and generally meaningless.

Just write a good book. It will go where it goes.
 

Pthom

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... sci-fi is "what could go wrong with tomorrow's?"
Unfortunately, this definition omits some really fine science fiction, written by the likes of Greg Bear (Blood Music, Darwin's Radio, Psychlone, Quantico, etc.) and others.

I have to agree with the following:
Techno-Thrillers are science fiction.
 

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Yes, SP, I suppose you're right.

As I recall, the nanotech wasn't hardware, however, but simple biological computers based on Virgil Ulam's own lymphocytes. And although I am unaware that anyone has succeeded in doing so, I don't believe such an achievement is very far into the future.

Of course, if this economic black hole we're in continues, that future is even further away.
 

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*cough* nanomachines are actually in use today, and the technology of today.

But, it doesn't matter. It's all SF.
Unless this was a very recent breakthrough development that I missed, I do not yet believe you. Please provide a link :)
 

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He could, but then the nanites in your computer would have to kill you.
 

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I'm still pissed that my nanites are all flagged with the "Fat and Lazy" matrix.
 

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I apparently got "Rude and Lazy," which isn't much better. The moral to this story is, nanotech sucks.
 

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SPMiller:

Functionalized Nanoporous Thin Films (FNTF) - R. Shane Addleman, Glen Fryxell, Richard Skaggs, Xiaohong Shari Li. Contact: Shane Addleman or Rick Skaggs.

FNTF is used to coat sampling discs that can then be used to easily capture and concentrate heavy metal contaminants in water sources. The FNTF sampling discs can then be quickly analyzed with X-ray fluorescence spectroscopy to detect the presence of toxic metals. The FNTF technology significantly expands and enhances sampling and testing capabilities, resulting in the ability to test water for virtually every heavy metal with potential to negatively affect human health and the environment. The technology also increases sensitivity by more than a thousand times the previous capability. The technology was developed with PANalytical, an international supplier of analytical instrumentation and software for X-ray diffraction and X-ray fluorescence spectrometry.

PNNL's FNTF technology was also recognized in the September 2007 issue of R&D Magazine as one of the top 25 micro- and nanotechnologies of the year.
source:
http://www.pnl.gov/about/rd100awards.asp

Not the only one out there, either, but from one of the companies that works in nanomachinery.

There was a little panel about modern nano and micro machinery during the International Space Development Conference, and it was definitely interesting. Simple micro and nanomachines are already being taken up by pharmaceutical companies, and quite a few large manufacturers.

There is a difference between "Nanorobots" and "Nanomachines", btw. Robots are still speculative, but very simple nano-machines are already developed and used.
 

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Well, that's heartening news. I guess the field has come along a lot farther than when I was in school.
 

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*cough* nanomachines are actually in use today, and the technology of today.

With all due respect to Mr. Kurzweil, functional nanomachines remain a long way out. There is a lot of nano-scale technology out there, like the thin-films mentioned, and a variety of designer particles. (All nanotech means is a principle length of the technological components of 10e-9 meters.) Actual nanomachines that have moving parts have been built. There are a number of fascinating examples including one that uses bacteria crawling in a 'trench' as the motive force fo turning a teeny-tiny flywheel. But it can't do anything. Programmable, autonomous nanomachines are still the stuff of science fiction.
 

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I've thought of Crichton as a technothriller author mostly because SF just doesn't sell as well as his novels do. :)

I feel a draft, er, drift in this thread, but that's okay, it's getting more interesting...
With all due respect to Mr. Kurzweil, functional nanomachines remain a long way out. There is a lot of nano-scale technology out there, like the thin-films mentioned,
I read the blurb and it didn't clue me in as to how they work or how they are made, all I got from it is these things are better at detecting heavy metals. It then becomes the magic buzzword: "How does it work?" "It uses Nanotechnology!" I recall when CD players came out, the blurbs were "It's better because it's digital!" "Do you have digital-ready stereo speakers?"
and a variety of designer particles. (All nanotech means is a principle length of the technological components of 10e-9 meters.)
That's a 'technical' definition, but I don't like it because I think it skips over an important point. Drexler ("Engines Of Creation," 1987, an excellent read and proponent of nanotechnology) uses the term molecular nanotechnology specifically to avoid a definition meaning "anything smaller than a certain length," but rather to mean constructing things by moving atoms and molecules around one at a time, so that a structure is designed and built to have certain atoms in certain configurations. This is in contrast to current "macro scale" manufacturing techniques, even for the smallest electronic devices, in which atoms and molecules are pushed around and combined in bulk, like a bulldozer pushing grains of sand around.

Here's the first example I know of this being done, of atoms being intentionally moved around one by one to form a pattern:
http://www.ieee-virtual-museum.org/collection/event.php?id=3457012&lid=1
Actual nanomachines that have moving parts have been built. There are a number of fascinating examples including one that uses bacteria crawling in a 'trench' as the motive force fo turning a teeny-tiny flywheel. But it can't do anything. Programmable, autonomous nanomachines are still the stuff of science fiction.
And of techno-thrillers such as "Prey." :D
 
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