Napkin Books

KarenDales said:

I will state, that since I joined here, to provide clear up the libel that was printed about me, I have been attacked constantly for my decision to go with the press that has offered me the most of what I believe is important to me.

So be it.

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I don't think anyone has attacked you; in fact, most posters here have gone out of their way to say this thread isn't about you, and that no one is attacking you. We're simply interested in getting the facts about this small press. You could offer up some concrete facts, if you wanted; perhaps that would help everyone to better understand your decision, but no one is attacking you for that decision. We're disgreeing with you on things like the facts about copyright law; that is still not an attack on you or your decision.

I have been harassed in regards to particulars of my contact. Is that standard around here? If so, should I ask for the particulars of your contracts?

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I don't see where you've been harrassed, I see where you've been asked questions. And several of us have given you particulars on some things, as well. If you choose not to answer those questions, that is of course your prerogative, but don't blame us then for still wondering what the answers to those questions are.

If this is a place for an exchange of ideas I have not seen it. I have only seen fictionalized facts about the publisher I'm with.

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Perhaps if you visited some other areas in the forum and became more familiar with AW as a whole, you'd feel a little more comfortable?

What fictionalized facts are those?

I will say it again and again. They are new to Canada. They do not have a shoe-string budget. I am exceedingly well taken care of by them in ALL aspects. My IP Councilor has stated "In reading through this contract, I have to say that this is the most straightforward, fairest contract I've read. There isn't anything that I'd say needs to be "changed"."

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And that's great. No one here wants to see you treated badly. I'm amazed at someone saying nothing in the contract needs to be changed; I've never in my life heard of a publishing contract that doesn't have a single problem, as the interests of the publisher and the author do not always coincide (option clauses, length of term, which rights are being granted, etc. etc.).

I was approached by others in regards to my book, and I chose the best one for me. Everyone will go with whomever they will for whatever reasons they will. I'm exceedingly blessed with NB. Obviously that is not good enough for folks who do not know me. Fine.

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We're not criticizing you. We're simply asking questions, that's all.

In regards to repaying advances, I've heard such things written in different books, at writing seminars, articles and from other authors. And before you decide to nit pick at this statement, as I'm sure that you will, I am not going to feed into your disbelief. I have my information, regardless as to whether or not it's contrary to yours. Everyone's contract with their publisher is different. There is no standard contract and what is involved in one's contract will be dependent upon how well or poorly the contract is negotiated.

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Keep in mind, it's very easy for someone to call themselves a "published author" or to claim expertise in the publishing industry, and not all of those people are. Lots of those people have a reason for feeding misinformation to others; lots of them hope to make money by doing so. Next time someone tells you things like that, check their credentials carefully. We dealt in another thread with a man who gave tons of writing seminars and told falsehoods like the "You have to pay back your advance" one. He was vanity-published and had never had any dealings with legitimate publishing. So it's a very confusing world out there--the purpose of this board, in fact, is to make it less so.

Nonetheless, while you're right that there's no "standard" contract (or rather, there is--it's called "boilerplate", but most of the time certain things are negotiated), the idea that an advance needs to be paid back if a book doesn't earn out is, quite simply, FALSE. 100%, completely and fully untrue. Anyone who tells you advances need to be paid back if the book doesn't earn out is NOT telling you the truth.

This isn't about "feeding into disbelief"; it is about a lie you have been told. Please do not believe that lie. A publisher who asks for the advance back if the book doesn't earn out is not legitimate. Period.

And again, I guess you don't want to "feed into our disbelief" by telling us where you got this information, and who told it to you. That would actually be helpful, if you would tell us; it would give us a chance to see whose authority is being put against ours. So what we have here is a situation where Victoria, Cathy, myself, and several other writers, all published with major houses, are telling you advances do not have to be paid back; whereas you claim it does based on some nameless people's books and seminars. Surely you can see how it would strengthen your case if you gave us names?


I really genuinely wish you the best of luck. Nobody here wants to see you or any other writer get hurt; that's why we're here. Really, please spend some time elsewhere on the forum and see what we're all about before you decide we're a bunch of mean, nasty haters. We'd love to have you hang around.

One thing that continues to bother me is the lack of any information about this company. According to the Internet Archive, the site's been active for over a year, and yet it's almost empty. Just two pages with submission info.

Nor could I find much information elsewhere. Usually after a year, a publisher leaves some kind of footprint around the web.

I think I know where Karen has gleaned some of her misinformation. Her husband is a musician and in that field of the arts, advances are treated differently than they are in the publishing industry.

Karen, you are very new to the world of publishing. I know this because I have read your posts on this site. No one is attacking you, but because you are so new to this business and have an offer from a company you deem, in your inexperience, to be a valuable option for your work, you are taking any negative posts about NB personally.

Take a deep breath and try to understand that many of the posters to this thread are light years ahead of you in their experience and knowledge. There is good reason why we are suspect of NB. Far too many new companies pop up on the Internet with promises they cannot fulfill because people who haven’t the knowledge, experience, contacts, business plan, and capital to succeed are operating them.

We don’t want to crush your dreams. But more importantly, we don’t want to see you back here in a year’s time stating that you wished you had listened to the advice and information offered to you in this thread, as there are already far too many threads in this forum filled with authors who wished they had heeded the warnings posted about their publishers.

cameronknight said:

I certainly meant nothing in the way of libel and/or harassment to anyone, whether publisher, author, potential author, or anything else. If anything that I said inferred same, I unreservedly apologize.

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You weren't saying anything out of line.

I'd be concerned for your friend's book. So far, I see no evidence that Napkin Books has any marketing or distribution set up. Given that your friend's book is scheduled for a January release, that's scary. Most review publications, such as Publisher's Weekly, want to receive books at least three months in advance of release date. I'd also expect to see the books listed for pre-order on Amazon.

cameronknight said:

As well, when I see words like "libel" and "harassment" pop up on forums such as this, it makes me very, very nervous.

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Those words are cheaply used with great frequency on the net---most often inappropriately as vaguely threatening noise, which is the case here. I sure don't see anyone being harrassed or libelled in this thread.

Neither do I.

It's very common for people who take issue with the discussion here--sometimes the owners or staff of companies that are being talked about, sometimes writers who feel that they are being slighted by critical discussion of their publisher or agent--to show up and toss around words like "libel" and "defamation" and "harassment" (and sometimes "slander," which doesn't apply). The intent is to intimidate. For the most part, such accusations are completely baseless.

Don't be nervous, Cam. Nothing you've said comes close to libel. You owe no one an apology.

- Victoria

Never heard of em, but I'm American.

A coworker friend who has published a book said the best way to learn about a publisher is to ask their authors about them. Good luck, y'all.

Jo

cameronknight:
when I see words like "libel" and "harassment" pop up on forums such as this, it makes me very, very nervous.

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To echo, Victoria, it's pretty easy to work out whether you need to be nervous about accusations of "libel" and "harrassment" or claims that such-and-such is suing/going to sue. You ask the person bandying the accusations these questions:

1. Which law firm is [company/individual] instructing?

2. What is the name of the contact attorney at that law firm?

3. Where is the law suit being filed?

4. When was the law suit filed/when it is being filed?

5. What are the precise grounds for that law suit?

In my experience, you will never get an answer to any of those questions because the person making the accusation is full of a certain bovine extraction.

MM

cameronknight said:

I'd like to state however, for the record, that my acquaintance is not Karen Dales.

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Yes, this was very obvious, despite Karen Dales's protestations to the contrary.

She seems to have a lot of misconceptions about a) Napkin Books, and b) the publishing industry and how it works.

And I have been published by Random House, Ms. Dales. It was not a "risky" prospect at all--even if the book I did with them hadn't earned more than the advance I got, they would have just called it even and let it go. Publishers do not make authors pay back advances that aren't recouped. It's considered part of the cost of doing business.

And, Ms. Dales, if you want to know about Canada's copyright laws, please go to the Canada Intellectual Property Office for your information. They will have the correct information.

Since Karen isn't comfortable with sharing information about Napkin Books, I decided to contact them directly. Here is my letter:

I came across your website, and I had some questions about Napkin Books.

Could you tell me if you offer advances? Also, what kind of royalties do you generally offer your authors?

I see that you're fairly new, with your first book launching in Spring 2009. Could you tell me who your distributor is?

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A couple days later (and some hits on my website from Toronto), I received this reply:

In answer to your questions we do not disclose by email any of our Author contract details. However I will say they are competitive.

For the book, of which the website is launching this month, we have different distributors for the hardcover and paperback versions. Again these details are not public until the book launches. At which point distribution and retailers the book will be available in, will be listed on the website.

If you have any further questions please email [email protected]

Thank you for your interest in Napkin Books.

The Napkin Staff

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I understand they don't want to share information about specific author contracts. But note that I didn't ask about a specific author. I asked about about their general terms for authors. And I didn't receive one concrete answer. (The paragraph about distributors is especially troubling.)

I've written back, asking for clarification, but I'm not holding my breath.

The more I hear (and the more I *don't* hear) about the company, the less confidence I have in them. If I were looking for a publisher, I'd stay far away from Napkin Books.

Napkin Books:
In answer to your questions we do not disclose by email any of our Author contract details.

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Translation: In answer to your question, we're not going to answer your question.

Napkin Books:
For the book, of which the website is launching this month, we have different distributors for the hardcover and paperback versions. Again these details are not public until the book launches. At which point distribution and retailers the book will be available in, will be listed on the website.

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Why would these details be confidential? If they've sorted out their distribution now (which they seem to be saying they have done), then surely it's better for them to get out word as early as possible as to where people can order or buy the book?

The whole thing seems v. weird to me.

MM

Napkin Books said:

In answer to your questions we do not disclose by email any of our Author contract details.

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Why do they specify email? Do they disclose contract details some other way - snail mail, phone conversations, live interviews?

Momento Mori said:

Translation: In answer to your question, we're not going to answer your question.

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Exactly.

Why would these details be confidential? If they've sorted out their distribution now (which they seem to be saying they have done), then surely it's better for them to get out word as early as possible as to where people can order or buy the book?

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My first reaction is that they have only a shakey idea what a distributor is.

So far we have one debut author. No, make that two. (And now I wonder, are there more?)

First book coming out January. No sign of it on Amazon. No pre-order information anywhere, not even on the NB site. Company run by an anonymous group, and when someone asks them basic questions about royalties and advances and distribution, they cry, "It's a secret!"

Are they clueless or merely clueless?

Queen of Swords said:

Why do they specify email? Do they disclose contract details some other way - snail mail, phone conversations, live interviews?

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Maybe the details are on YouTube.

Beth Bernobich said:

Are they clueless or merely clueless?

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I don't think they're just clueless. Refusing to disclose the name of anyone involved with the company strikes me as downright suspicious.

The registrant of the NapkinBooks.com website is someone named Meghan Woodburn of Dublin, Ireland.

Before I begin, I want to offer an apology for those of you who were trying to get me to think rationally about NB and how I harshly responded. Many of the questions that were posted up on this message board got me thinking about my desire to publish with Napkin Books. Also, through the contract negotiations with them, certain conversations with the publisher raised red flags in my mind, especially when my husband and brother-in-law set down to have me really think about what I was doing in a logical and rational way, rather than in an emotional way. I also have several friends who are published authors who sat me down and talked to me about their experiences with their publishers. Due to irreconcilable differences in regards to the contract and other issues, they decided, at the same time that I decided, not to go with them.

I am very glad that this has turned out the way it did and now truly value and have a great appreciation for the role of the agent. Right now I have an agent interested in my work, so maybe he'll take me on and get me in with a publishing house with a long standing solid history. All I can do is cross my fingers.

In regards to Napkin Books. I do believe in what they hope to achieve by creating a genre fiction publisher in Canada and wish them well, but with any new business, especially in these economic times, I believe they will find it rough going. After all, most businesses fail within the first three years.

To many of you who have tried to shed light upon Napkin Books and make me think things through... I want to apologize if I came off unduly harsh. Emotions about getting one's book in print can really get one turned around.

Thanks for making me think.

Karen

Hi Karen,

No hard feelings. (The road to publication can be an emotion-filled one, I know.) I hope you'll stick around and explore the rest of the AW forums. There are many excellent discussions about writing and publishing.

Best of luck with your books.

--Beth

KarenDales said:

Before I begin, I want to offer an apology for those of you who were trying to get me to think rationally about NB and how I harshly responded. Many of the questions that were posted up on this message board got me thinking about my desire to publish with Napkin Books. Also, through the contract negotiations with them, certain conversations with the publisher raised red flags in my mind, especially when my husband and brother-in-law set down to have me really think about what I was doing in a logical and rational way, rather than in an emotional way. I also have several friends who are published authors who sat me down and talked to me about their experiences with their publishers. Due to irreconcilable differences in regards to the contract and other issues, they decided, at the same time that I decided, not to go with them.

I am very glad that this has turned out the way it did and now truly value and have a great appreciation for the role of the agent. Right now I have an agent interested in my work, so maybe he'll take me on and get me in with a publishing house with a long standing solid history. All I can do is cross my fingers.

In regards to Napkin Books. I do believe in what they hope to achieve by creating a genre fiction publisher in Canada and wish them well, but with any new business, especially in these economic times, I believe they will find it rough going. After all, most businesses fail within the first three years.

To many of you who have tried to shed light upon Napkin Books and make me think things through... I want to apologize if I came off unduly harsh. Emotions about getting one's book in print can really get one turned around.

Thanks for making me think.

Karen

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I tend to lurk on these B&BC threads, but I just wanted to say that this post is hands-down one of the classiest I've seen yet.

Karen, I wish you the best of luck in your publishing endeavors! If you'd like some support in your agent search, head over to the Purgatory thread on the Rejection and Dejection board. We're quite a supportive (and raucous) bunch!

What Beth Bernobich and mlhernandez said!

All the best in your new search, Karen!

Hi Karen,

As mlhernandez said, that was a very classy post, and I wish you the best in finding an agent! I also hope you stick around.