Finding an Agent

Write_At_1st_Light

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"...in the end-you end of writing for yourself, mostly."
True, but isn't that mental mastrubation?
I detest being so negative, but a million or so (well, it seems like it) rejections will do it for you. Perhaps the need to create could be put to better use. We should go take a class in stained glass, or painting in oils, or become carpenters.
Wouldn't it be best to pursue a creative endavor that you had some control over the end use?
Excuse me, I'm going out into the garage and slash my wrist (no, not really. Just another fantasy, like getting a script produced.)
Mental Masturbation?

Well! I never thought of it that way.

And I don't agree. Or else, you could posit that ANYTHING done by someone which is enjoyable, challenging and stimulating is mental masturbation.

I'm writing screenplays because my eye is certainly on the prize - lensed films from them. That's what I keep out in front of me. But there's more - much more.

I learn a helluva lot writing a script, because I do a great deal of research. Case in point: The Western fantasy I wrote. To get there, I bought 8 books for research. I watched key Western films that I felt would assist my efforts. I scoured the Internet for more items and morsels and facts. Then I traveled to the location, looked up old newspaper clippings, old books, interviewed people at the locale, snapped 200 pictures, scoped out the film locations.

When I started writing, I had to figure what to leave out of the script because I'd acquired so much from which to draw upon. I learned a great deal. And as an endlessly curious person, writing this Western sated my appetite for new information, new ideas.

The script hasn't sold, hasn't garnered me an agent. But I still feel I came out ahead - even if it never sells.

So yes: The very first reason you should write - if you're passionate about this creative endeavor - is to satisfy yourself. Otherwise what's the point?
 

jonpiper

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Bison, you may be on to something ---- for certain people.

Van Gogh as I recall from Lust For Life, (read the book a few years ago) had no formal training, just painted for years in very poor circumstances.
He did pal around in Paris at times with the famous artists of the time.

Point is, if you're a genius, a natural who learns by doing and can self critique, perhaps you'll produce some great screenplays.
 

nmstevens

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NMS,
This is taking another direction,but, to respond to a couple of comments, I have a degree in Journalism. I'm not an expert, but I know a bit about writing. I have three novels published.
Screenwriting is another critter.
Whether I have the talent to go with that knowledge is yet to be determined. It isn't looking good right now, I'll admit.
Some people benefit from classes, but classes are a dime a dozen. There are many "if you can't do it, teach it" people out there trying to tell everyone how to proceed.
I think it goes like this. The main reason I wasn't Emperor of Rome is because I wasn't there at the time. Time and circumstance play a more important role than all the schooling in the world.
Yes, if one keeps on keeping on, one may be in the right place at the right time. It has happened to many. Lightning can strike.
So...if one is serious, one surley should continure on.
Most wannabes should hang it up, again IMO. It would be kinder.
Put down the rocks, you don't have to agree! That's what causes conflict!


I'm not looking for an argument, but you've raised the issue and the question you raise deserves a serious answer -- whether you like the answer or not.

True, you weren't "there" when were Emperors of Rome -- but millions of people *were* there -- and weren't the Emperor of Rome. Most people weren't, even among those who happened to be around at the time.

"Time and circumstance" for the overwhelming majority of those who became Emperors of Rome were incidental factors at best -- available to countless others who failed to avail themselves of either. Ambition, superior talent, the ability to make alliances, to create opportunities or to seize opportunities when they presented themselves -- all of these things far out-weighed mere time and circumstance, in the majority of cases.

If your analogy is "lightning striking" -- then my response is simple. If you want to wait around for it to happen, the chances of it happening are vanishingly small.

On the other hand, if you really want lightning to strike, there are many things that you can do that raise the chances of lightning striking to the point of a virtual certainty. You can actually shoot a rocket with a grounded wire up into a lighting storm. That'll get a lighting strike pretty much every time. Of course, that takes study, effort, money, risk, work -- a hell of a lot more than mere "time and circumstance."

I wrote my first screenplay when I was thirteen. Apart from some low money options, I had my first professional sale -- a teleplay for a half hour syndicated show, when I was over thirty. It took me close to eight years of writing before I had a feature optioned after that, and my first outright sale of a feature to a major studio a year and a half after that - for mid-six figures.

And that was after having gone to graduate school at NYU, which is considered one of the top film schools in the country.

I had no agent during most of that time. No connections. Most of that time, I was cold calling. At a certain point, I convinced my wife, who also had no experience or connections, to act as my manager and she simply cold-called on my behalf.

So if you want to look at the above as simply a bunch of rocks, go ahead.

As far as I'm concerned, you can either wait for the lightning, or do everything in your power to make yourself a lightning rod.

And the less lightning there is, that's just another way of saying that you have to do more to attract it.

NMS
 

Sunshine13

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I always like what you say, NMS. You make very good points I find myself agreeing with.
 

AnneAtWordHustler

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There is no right answer to the questions of how to get represented, how to get a script produced, etc. Really. Entering screenplay competitions may work for some while going to pitchfests may work for others while moving to Hollywood and getting a job as an assistant at a studio or talent agency may work as well. But it's unrealistic to think that everyone can just pick up and move to La-la land. I get it. I've worked and written out here in Hollywood for 10 years...it's rough. And I'm going to echo what a lot of people on this thread have said, because it's true: it's about connections. Not ALL about connections, but a lot about them.

My humble suggestion: go after the reputable screenwriting fellowships. Those are contests that REALLY matter. Warner Brothers has a TV writing fellowship, as does Nickelodeon. Disney/ABC also has one. These contests are super competitive, but come with writing job as prizes. Jobs that are worth having. :)

Another thought is film/grad school. Crazy expensive, yes. But talk about connections...
 

bison

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My assumption is (was) that all who post here are not rank beginneers and have had some level of instruction in what screnwriting is all about. My point is (was) that because you're not getting acceptance is no automatic nudge to sign up for some class in How To.... Nobody puts "Graduated from the ABC School of How To," on a query letter. At least, I don't think they do.
As others have said over and over, getting represented is the hardest chore of all, harder than writing the play and anyone who is successful in this business has a lot of luck and good timing in his/her pocket. All the classes in the world can't teach that.
I'm done! (Quit clapping).
 

icerose

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My assumption is (was) that all who post here are not rank beginneers and have had some level of instruction in what screnwriting is all about. My point is (was) that because you're not getting acceptance is no automatic nudge to sign up for some class in How To.... Nobody puts "Graduated from the ABC School of How To," on a query letter. At least, I don't think they do.
As others have said over and over, getting represented is the hardest chore of all, harder than writing the play and anyone who is successful in this business has a lot of luck and good timing in his/her pocket. All the classes in the world can't teach that.
I'm done! (Quit clapping).

I think the point though is that even with all the luck and timing in the world if your writing isn't there yet it's not going to do you any good.
 

nmstevens

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My assumption is (was) that all who post here are not rank beginneers and have had some level of instruction in what screnwriting is all about. My point is (was) that because you're not getting acceptance is no automatic nudge to sign up for some class in How To.... Nobody puts "Graduated from the ABC School of How To," on a query letter. At least, I don't think they do.
As others have said over and over, getting represented is the hardest chore of all, harder than writing the play and anyone who is successful in this business has a lot of luck and good timing in his/her pocket. All the classes in the world can't teach that.
I'm done! (Quit clapping).


It was the easiest thing in the world for me to get representation -- once I'd sold a script for half a million dollars.

That, actually, was the hard part. And by the way, I don't think I've written more than half a dozen query letters in my life. I've always made all my contacts through cold calling.

The idea that getting representation is the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow is one of the fantasies that a lot of aspiring screenwriters have. It isn't.

Saying that you shouldn't bother with classes because what really matters is "good luck and good timing" only makes me mindful of the saying that "fortune favors the prepared mind" -- and that, much more than the "ABC's" is what a good class in screenwriting can do -- it can prepare you for opportunities when they arise.

Part of what we had to do when I was at NYU was to go into our production teacher's office and explain our projects in one sentence -- pitch things in the form of a logline. And if we couldn't do it, she's tear us apart. Those were pitch sessions -- and what was worse, we'd have to go in groups of three, and not only have our own pitches torn apart, but see our fellow students have their pitches torn apart.

That's part of how you learn how to do it -- not only how to pitch, but how to think of your story in those terms.

I have no idea how your previous professional experience has prepared you to do any of those things which are so central to being successful as a screenwriter.

I know that it is very easy to presume that your work is up to par and that, since it has failed to sell, that failure must be due to forces beyond your control -- not being able to get an agent, not the right time, market forces, bad luck, bad timing.

And yet spec scripts by beginning writers with no agents still sell.

And it's not like those that buy them just spin a drum full of screenplays, reach in and pull one out.

There's something that those screenplays have that yours lack.

You can keep appealing to the forces of fate and heaven -- or maybe take steps here on earth to try to find out what that is and fix it.

NMS
 

Write_At_1st_Light

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My assumption is (was) that all who post here are not rank beginneers and have had some level of instruction in what screnwriting is all about. My point is (was) that because you're not getting acceptance is no automatic nudge to sign up for some class in How To.... Nobody puts "Graduated from the ABC School of How To," on a query letter. At least, I don't think they do.
As others have said over and over, getting represented is the hardest chore of all, harder than writing the play and anyone who is successful in this business has a lot of luck and good timing in his/her pocket. All the classes in the world can't teach that.
I'm done! (Quit clapping).
Getting representation really is a whole lot of it, you're correct. And classes have no effect on that whatsoever. Forget about classes, if your screenwriting is up to par. That is, if others generally agree it's up to par (or even if they don't). And if you don't think it is but can polish no further? Write another screenplay, different genre. The more you write, the better you get. It's a law of Nature. And always remember what William Goldman said: Nobody Knows Anything. That is, concerning whether a script, or a movie made from that script, will be a success.

Because for all I know, you may very well have written a screenplay that blows anything I've written out of the water, anything NMStevens has written out of the water, anything others here have written out of the water. So, we're back to representation.

I cold-called a well known production company to pitch my Western out here in Silly Land. Know how many words I got out before I was abruptly cut off? About 4 words. "We don't accept any material without representation!". Click. That's pretty much standard. I got the same result from many other production companies. There are exceptions, but agents make the deals here. It's a rigged town.

Those who claim that you can get a script sold WITHOUT representation are conveniently leaving out that magical "C" word: Connections. That asset sometimes can trump lack of representation. It's one reason why they tell starting screenwriters to get to where the business is conducted, such as out here in Silly Land. Boots on the ground. You might - maybe - just happen to meet someone who leads to someone else and they know somebody...

Connections can go back to friends you made at a posh, expensive and prominent back-East college too. Connections can come from being in a parallel career for an appreciable length of time. Newspaper writers of longevity, for example, will find it easier to get a book of theirs published - because in addition to honed writing skills, they've also brushed up against the people who work the publishing business. Connections can come from what I'm doing: A bit of acting here in Silly Land. You meet producers, writers, directors.

Global Rule #1: Write because you enjoy it, at some level. That is always the prime motivator.
 

nmstevens

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Getting representation really is a whole lot of it, you're correct. And classes have no effect on that whatsoever. Forget about classes, if your screenwriting is up to par. That is, if others generally agree it's up to par (or even if they don't). And if you don't think it is but can polish no further? Write another screenplay, different genre. The more you write, the better you get. It's a law of Nature. And always remember what William Goldman said: Nobody Knows Anything. That is, concerning whether a script, or a movie made from that script, will be a success.

Because for all I know, you may very well have written a screenplay that blows anything I've written out of the water, anything NMStevens has written out of the water, anything others here have written out of the water. So, we're back to representation.

I cold-called a well known production company to pitch my Western out here in Silly Land. Know how many words I got out before I was abruptly cut off? About 4 words. "We don't accept any material without representation!". Click. That's pretty much standard. I got the same result from many other production companies. There are exceptions, but agents make the deals here. It's a rigged town.

Those who claim that you can get a script sold WITHOUT representation are conveniently leaving out that magical "C" word: Connections. That asset sometimes can trump lack of representation. It's one reason why they tell starting screenwriters to get to where the business is conducted, such as out here in Silly Land. Boots on the ground. You might - maybe - just happen to meet someone who leads to someone else and they know somebody...

Connections can go back to friends you made at a posh, expensive and prominent back-East college too. Connections can come from being in a parallel career for an appreciable length of time. Newspaper writers of longevity, for example, will find it easier to get a book of theirs published - because in addition to honed writing skills, they've also brushed up against the people who work the publishing business. Connections can come from what I'm doing: A bit of acting here in Silly Land. You meet producers, writers, directors.

Global Rule #1: Write because you enjoy it, at some level. That is always the prime motivator.


Nobody can argue with your Global Rule #1 -- but as to the rest of what you're saying --

You talk about making connections and that taking classes has no effect on that.

My first professional sale -- albeit a tiny one, a treatment for a low budget feature that I sold for $250 dollars, came about as a result of a producer who came into a class I was taking at NYU and basically said, "Here are some titles we've got to some movies we'd like to make -- if you write a treatment to one of these titles and we like it, we'll buy it." I wrote one, they liked it. They bought it.

It never got made, but it was my first sale.

My first option by a professional company came about as a result of *sitting in* on a class that was being given at NYU -- after I'd graduated. It was being given by a woman who was an exec at a company who'd come in to talk about her experiences and at the end of the class she invited people to send her material. I sent her something I'd written, got a letter back -- not quite right for us, do you have anything else. I'd just finished another script, send that in -- they optioned it.

It also never got made, but again -- my first option by a professional company.

And it turns out that that same woman ultimately went to work for a company in New York where I'd gone in to meet their story editor about a script I'd written -- again, based on a cold query letter.

Based on that meeting, they invited me to pitch for their new TV show -- and who did I end up pitching to? This same woman who had earlier optioned that screenplay.

Based on that pitch meeting, I ended up making my first professional sale of a teleplay -- which was produced.

At that point, I didn't have an agent -- had sold a treatment, had had two screenplays optioned, had sold a teleplay which was produced.

The only connections I had were those that I developed -- *through* classes I had attended and through cold queries and later through cold-calling which is something that you also claim doesn't work.

At various points in my early career I've had agents and I had a manager. None of them ever sold anything that I ever wrote.

Yet over those same years I managed to sell my own material and to make my own connections.

I grew up in West Roxbury. I moved to NY to go NYU Grad Film. I've never lived in L.A. (except for a month when I stayed there to direct a low budget feature).

The town isn't "rigged" -- the town is behaving sensibly. It only makes around 250 features a year. Include features made for TV and DTV and it only goes up to around maybe 500. If you accept that the ratio of scripts bought to movies made is around ten to one, figure that around 5000 screenplays are bought/commissioned every year.

But last year alone, FIFTY thousand screenplays were registered with the guild. And it's not as if every year all the screenplays from the years before are simply tossed on the fire. Many of them are still in play.

It's not even as if the odds of getting into that 5000 are ten to one -- because the overwhelming majority of those scripts aren't spec scripts. They are commissioned properties -- works for hire based on either books, or remakes, or sequels, or magazine articles or an idea that a producer has come up with. All TV movies are works for hire. The majority of Hollywood features are works for hire. And a substantial percentage of indie films are the work of writer/directors, or writer/producer/directors -- and thus they represent a limited market for spec screenplays.

Plus, as many of you know, the market for indie films is in very bad shape in any case.

So those of us who write spec scripts, whether aspiring screenwriters or working screenwriters, are in competition for a very small number of slots.

Those who are prospective buyers of those screenplays are not looking to trawl for a grain of wheat in the midst of a ton of chaff. They don't have to. It's a buyer's market.

Every script they have to cover is money out of their development budget. And the cold cruel fact is, the chances of a script by an unvetted, unsold beginner being worth buying are so slim that they just aren't worth reading in the overwhelming majority of cases.

When a script comes by way of an agent, when it comes from a writer that they know, a writer whose work they have read, a writer who has produced credits -- all of that goes to increase the odds that what they're getting is going to be worth reading -- going to be worth buying.

Maybe those odds, at best, maybe fifty to one, or a hundred to one -- because (having worked in a development company) you end up having to read fifty or a hundred scripts --even agented scripts -- before you find one that you really want to option or buy.

But once you start dealing with unagented material -- just stuff from the slushpile, then suddenly you're dealing with odds of many thousands to one of finding something that's worth buying.

And for the overwhelming majority of buyers, to spend seventy or ninety bucks a pop to have thousands of such things covered on the off chance that one might be worthwhile just isn't worth it.

That is *their* reality.

And that being said, there are still ways that you can get past the "Do you have an agent?" roadblock.

I did it for years -- I describe how in that FAQ link I keep attaching to various posts.

NMS
 

zeprosnepsid

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You're from Mass NMS? I'm from lovely suburban Weymouth. My Mom is from Roxbury tho.

I mostly work as an editor and work on screenplays in my spare time and haven't gotten to the point of marketing them yet, but yeah, school connections have been great for getting jobs as an Editor. For instance, I got a good gig from a former guest teacher.

I went to USC and even just having 'USC' on the resume honestly does open doors. Lots of industry folks have given me the time of day because they are fellow alums. I'm always getting e-mails about gigs and spreading the word myself when I hear of something -- all amongst alums.

And when I do ever get my screenplays into a state I'm happy with, I have plenty of friends from college working at major studios and agencies.

So I agree, classes are a pretty decent place to make connections.

I both think that you don't need classes if you already know what you are doing and know the terminology of the industry, but also think that they are helpful in their own way. It just depends on the person and their situation.