Visiting Minister @ Palin's church prayed for 'witchcraft' protection

I didn't think Obama's pastor should be held against him and the same goes for Palin. although I'd like to hear the opinions of those who DID think Wright should be held against Obama on tis issue.

Let's face it people, I'm fairly religious but I'll openly admit that there are whack job pastors out there in all faiths.

20 years with Wright as a mentor vs. a blessing from a visiting preacher? Yeah, that is equivalent.

cethklein said:

I didn't think Obama's pastor should be held against him and the same goes for Palin. although I'd like to hear the opinions of those who DID think Wright should be held against Obama on tis issue.

Let's face it people, I'm fairly religious but I'll openly admit that there are whack job pastors out there in all faiths.

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Yes, ceremonial prayer to 'protection from witchcraft' is the same as 'God Damn America' and 'US government spread AIDS to blacks'. Same thing.

cethklein said:

I didn't think Obama's pastor should be held against him and the same goes for Palin. although I'd like to hear the opinions of those who DID think Wright should be held against Obama on tis issue.

Let's face it people, I'm fairly religious but I'll openly admit that there are whack job pastors out there in all faiths.

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Yes, there are all kinds of wacky people in the world, but we expect our Presidents to exercise judgement, and be at least a little smarter than the average victim of con artists. Personally, I believe both Obama and Palin should be kept far away from positions of power until they learn to distinguish the difference between fact and fiction.

donroc said:

20 years with Wright as a mentor vs. a blessing from a visiting preacher? Yeah, that is equivalent.

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Here we get deeper into the issue. A one-time blessing from a traveling con man is considerably less damaging than claiming someone has been your mentor for 20 years, then disclaiming the things they say.

dmytryp said:

Yes, ceremonial prayer to 'protection from witchcraft' is the same as 'God Damn America' and 'US government spread AIDS to blacks'. Same thing.

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And finally, the messages deserve comparison as well. Again, in this case, I believe the racial hatred that huckster Wright spews is much more dangerous than asking one invisible, unproven diety to provide protection from a different set of invisible, unproven dieties. One case is grounded in reality, the other in opinion (or belief, if you prefer that term).

Let's also note that Obama will have more direct control than Palin, so voodoo like this is relatively more noteworthy in his case.

I don't want either one of these 'whack jobs' (the candidates, not the preachers) involved in my government, but I would have expected this question to come from a Palin partisan, not an Obama one, since Obama so clearly fails the comparison.

One big, huge, glaring difference.

Obama has left the church and publicly decried the actions of his preacher. Has said in public that he doesn not agree with the pastor's actions.

Palin has yet to separate herself from this bunch of wackadoos, who not only pray for witchcraft protection, but feel that they can "cure homosexuality". When/if Palin comes out and says this isn't what she believes, I'll certainly listen. But she's already known for being pretty far right, so I won't hold my breath.

dmytryp said:

Yes, ceremonial prayer to 'protection from witchcraft' is the same as 'God Damn America' and 'US government spread AIDS to blacks'. Same thing.

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How are you going to explain the fact that the ritual is directed specifically at Pallin? The woman's a lunatic. It's the degree of involvement that matters.

ErylRavenwell said:

How are you going to explain the fact that the ritual is directed specifically at Pallin? The woman's a lunatic.

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Just the point I wanted to make.

Wright's rant was part of a sermon, not directed specifically to or for Obama.

This "blessing" was for Palin and no one else.

Thus it is a rather different issue and to me, a very scary one. Palin has already demonstrated a far right religious position and to be "protected" against "witches" is a slam against anyone who practices wicca or even paganism.

If this woman is elected - which I hope she is not - religious tolerance and the seperation of church and state are going down the tubes.

Christine N. said:

One big, huge, glaring difference.

Obama has left the church and publicly decried the actions of his preacher. Has said in public that he doesn not agree with the pastor's actions.

Palin has yet to separate herself from this bunch of wackadoos, who not only pray for witchcraft protection, but feel that they can "cure homosexuality". When/if Palin comes out and says this isn't what she believes, I'll certainly listen. But she's already known for being pretty far right, so I won't hold my breath.

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So stabbing your 'mentor' in the back and leaving him to bleed out on the floor when his opinions are brought into focus is a good thing to do?

I'm not religious, but I seem to remember some guy named Judas who did the same thing to HIS mentor when things got tough, and he's not too highly regarded in the religion game, from what I understand.

Putting this slightly delusional behavior of Palin's on the same level as the long-term black supremacist and separatist mentoring from Wright is one of the worst examples of partisanship I've seen yet this election.

johnnysannie said:

Just the point I wanted to make.

Wright's rant was part of a sermon, not directed specifically to or for Obama.

This "blessing" was for Palin and no one else.

Thus it is a rather different issue and to me, a very scary one. Palin has already demonstrated a far right religious position and to be "protected" against "witches" is a slam against anyone who practices wicca or even paganism.

If this woman is elected - which I hope she is not - religious tolerance and the seperation of church and state are going down the tubes.

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Aren't you one for hyperbole

Christine N. said:

One big, huge, glaring difference.

Obama has left the church and publicly decried the actions of his preacher. Has said in public that he doesn not agree with the pastor's actions.

Palin has yet to separate herself from this bunch of wackadoos, who not only pray for witchcraft protection, but feel that they can "cure homosexuality". When/if Palin comes out and says this isn't what she believes, I'll certainly listen. But she's already known for being pretty far right, so I won't hold my breath.

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No offence, but you are repeating rumors again:

One of the musical directors at the church, Adele Morgan, who has known Ms. Palin since the third grade, said the Palins moved to the nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church in 2002, in part because its ministry is less “extreme” than Pentecostal churches like the Assemblies of God, which practice speaking in tongues and miraculous healings.
“A lot of churches are about music and media and having a big profile,” Ms. Morgan said. “We are against that. That is why it is so attractive to politicians because they can just sit there and be safe.”
“We’ve gotten a lot of their people when the other churches get too extreme,” Ms. Morgan continued. However, she added, “If you lift your hands when we’re singing, we’re not going to shoot you down.”

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And she didn't wait to the story breaking in the national news to leave.

ErylRavenwell said:

How are you going to explain the fact that the ritual is directed specifically at Pallin? The woman's a lunatic. It's the degree of involvement that matters.

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As an Obama supporter, I think you shouldn't go there. You can't win this arguement, because Palin's problem here is personal peculiarities and beliefs at worst and Obama's is lack of judgement at best and long time knowingly associating with a bigot and hate promoter at worst.

Disa said:

Umm...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26880901

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As someone who considers himself a philosophical Pagan and a practical atheist, I've trained myself to look at the various incarnations of religious boobosity in the US with a degree of amusement and detachment. These kinds of things are no different from the superstitious antics of primitive tribes who paint their asses blue, bay at the moon, and enjoy dung for Sunday dinner.

Of course, there is that whole "finger on the nucular trigger" thing to take into consideration, and frankly the only one of the four I'd sincerely trust with the launch codes is Biden. Palin's a snake-handling end-times religious loonie-tune, Obama's had that spine-ectomy operation that's so popular among DC politicians, and McCain would use the launch codes to pay back the "gooks" for what they did to him in the Hanoi Hilton.

steveg144 said:

As someone who considers himself a philosophical Pagan and a practical atheist, I've trained myself to look at the various incarnations of religious boobosity in the US with a degree of amusement and detachment. These kinds of things are no different from the superstitious antics of primitive tribes who paint their asses blue, bay at the moon, and enjoy dung for Sunday dinner.

Of course, there is that whole "finger on the nucular trigger" thing to take into consideration, and frankly the only one of the four I'd sincerely trust with the launch codes is Biden. Palin's a snake-handling end-times religious loonie-tune, Obama's had that spine-ectomy operation that's so popular among DC politicians, and McCain would use the launch codes to pay back the "gooks" for what they did to him in the Hanoi Hilton.

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Wow... Just wow. We are all in for hyperbole today, aren't we

Wright attacked, cursed, and damned the USA and white people and praised Farrakhan and Hamas for 20+ years, but only when he personally attacked Obama did it matter enough for the candidate to dump his beloved mentor.

Too many on the left ( I did not say all) are truly equivalency-challenged when confronted with unpleasant truths.

dmytryp said:

Wow... Just wow. We are all in for hyperbole today, aren't we

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Nothing quite like it to start off another glorious day!

This kind of thing occurs at churches all across this country all the time. Guest pastors from Africa are pretty common and most of the time there is an incorporation of protections from "witchcraft" (which seems to be a demonic equivalent in Africa). I suppose Palin should have recoiled and rebuked the man? Racist hatemongering vs. a religious warding... uhmmmm hmmmm... comparable.

dmytryp said:

Aren't you one for hyperbole

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No, no hyperbole today. Just the unvarnished reality.

Homeland Security has already cut deeper into our American freedoms than most people realize and most won't miss religious tolerance or seperation (church and state) until it is gone.

Until suddenly children are forced to learn that Creationism is the only explanation for mankind, fundamentalists lash out against so-called "cult" religions like Catholicism, politicians like Palin move against Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, and such to "protect" the nation, and the freedom to worship as we want or not at all is gone, most people won't care, not until it's too late.

johnnysannie said:

No, no hyperbole today. Just the unvarnished reality.

Homeland Security has already cut deeper into our American freedoms than most people realize and most won't miss religious tolerance or seperation (church and state) until it is gone.

Until suddenly children are forced to learn that Creationism is the only explanation for mankind, fundamentalists lash out against so-called "cult" religions like Catholicism, politicians like Palin move against Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, and such to "protect" the nation, and the freedom to worship as we want or not at all is gone, most people won't care, not until it's too late.

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Look out Goths, they're coming for you! Somebody tell Robert Smith to get into hiding please... I happen to like The Cure.

johnnysannie said:

No, no hyperbole today. Just the unvarnished reality.

Homeland Security has already cut deeper into our American freedoms than most people realize and most won't miss religious tolerance or seperation (church and state) until it is gone.

Until suddenly children are forced to learn that Creationism is the only explanation for mankind, fundamentalists lash out against so-called "cult" religions like Catholicism, politicians like Palin move against Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, and such to "protect" the nation, and the freedom to worship as we want or not at all is gone, most people won't care, not until it's too late.

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Johnny, I know your stances. The problem with them that they have no basis in reality. The rumors about "forcing to learn creationism", "abstinence only" etc. are just that -- rumors. And debunked rumors at that. The facts are -- Palin was in a position to push for creationism in the curriculum or to change sex ed to "abstinence only" as Governor of Alaska, yet she didn't do it. So, yes, you r post is fear mongering and hyperbole at its worst (and not for the first time). Claiming that your opponent is the devil and would lead to end of US is something that GWB might say (I specifically name him because I know how you feel about him). It is also the path to totalitarism. After all, if your enemy is evil, you would be justified to take what steps necessary to defeat him (this is intentional hyperbole).

The title of the article is certainly misleading. A visiting speaker offering a blessing hardly qualifies for the title of "Palin pastor". Also, witchcraft is a very different part of Kenyan culture than it is in America and prayers for protection from witchcraft are part and parcel in Kenyan churches. When foreign missionaries visit churches and offer a blessing, it's generally considered rude to diss their culture.

And for anyone who's interested, a Biblical model of praying for leaders comes from 1 Timothy 2:1-2

I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

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III said:

Also, witchcraft is a very different part of Kenyan culture than it is in America and prayers for protection from witchcraft are part and parcel in Kenyan churches. When foreign missionaries visit churches and offer a blessing, it's generally considered rude to diss their culture.

And for anyone who's interested, a Biblical model of praying for leaders comes from 1 Timothy 2:1-2

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Oh.... oh.... this just won't do... you're making sense. I've been to several churches where there have been guest speakers from Africa and to the last they all do this... thank you for backing that up.

dmytryp said:

Johnny, I know your stances. The problem with them that they have no basis in reality. The rumors about "forcing to learn creationism", "abstinence only" etc. are just that -- rumors. And debunked rumors at that. The facts are -- Palin was in a position to push for creationism in the curriculum or to change sex ed to "abstinence only" as Governor of Alaska, yet she didn't do it. So, yes, you r post is fear mongering and hyperbole at its worst (and not for the first time). Claiming that your opponent is the devil and would lead to end of US is something that GWB might say (I specifically name him because I know how you feel about him). It is also the path to totalitarism. After all, if your enemy is evil, you would be justified to take what steps necessary to defeat him (this is intentional hyperbole).

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I would suggest some reading about the Assemblies of God sect before calling certain rumors debunked:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assemblies_of_God

http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/index.cfm